So why do people hate Israel? - Page 172




 
--
 
February 2nd, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
It's bloody painful.

I sometimes wonder how these people manage to get dressed on their own and yet they end up in places like The State Department.

Has there been a time in the last 20 years when the US wasn't boycotting or enforcing sanctions on some country or another?
February 2nd, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
It's bloody painful.

I sometimes wonder how these people manage to get dressed on their own and yet they end up in places like The State Department.

Has there been a time in the last 20 years when the US wasn't boycotting or enforcing sanctions on some country or another?

I am still trying to work out what the moral of the story is here, is it:
a) Boycotts are acceptable as long as it isn't Israel.
b) Boycotts are acceptable as long as no one says they arent.
c) Boycotts are acceptable as long as it is Cuba or we impliment it.
d) Please don't bring this up again because we have no idea what we are saying and for gods sake do not mention our sanctions on Iran who haven't broken any laws.

The beauty of the BDS boycott is that it is purely up to the individual it isn't about countries doing it and therefore does not rely on the mythical politician with a backbone to enforce and it blends in with the knowledge that regardless of what politicians think or do people can not be forced to buy a product and as such it gets around the power and money of groups like AIPAC.

It is a ground up boycott in that if enough people stop buying a product companies will stop stocking that product (as no company will stock a product that they can't turn a profit on) which by default draws them into the boycott and that process continues on up the chain.

And I think it is working as the BDS movement is getting headlines...

January 31, 2014 7:29 pm
A star stumbles in the settlements
Scarlett Johansson’s defence of her sponsor is naive

The decision by actress Scarlett Johansson to stop being an ambassador for Oxfam, the social justice charity, and continue as brand ambassador to SodaStream, an Israeli company that makes home-carbonated drink dispensers at a plant in the occupied West Bank, might be dismissed as a storm in a fizzy cup. It should not be.

The Lost in Translation star has accidentally turned a searchlight on an important issue – whether it is right or lawful to do business with companies that operate in illegal Israeli settlements on Palestinian land – as well as inadvertently sprinkling stardust on the campaign to boycott Israel until it withdraws from the occupied West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem – a separate issue, at least so far.

SodaStream makes some dispensers in Maale Adumim, the biggest of Israel’s West Bank settlements, illegal under international law. It employs about 500 Palestinians and claims to promote jobs and peaceful coexistence between Arabs and Jews. Ms Johansson says the company is “building a bridge to peace between Israel and Palestine”. That is naive, as is her conflation of this controversy with the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement advocating the isolation of Israel.

The status of the settlements is clear in international law even if Israel chooses to ignore this and expand its colonisation of Palestinian land, while ostensibly negotiating on the creation of a Palestinian state. Last year the EU adopted rules prohibiting grants to entities operating in illegal settlements. Yet the EU still let Israel into Horizon 2020 – the only non-member state in this €80bn research and development programme – making Israeli tech high flyers eligible for European public money provided it is not spent in the settlements.

That is not a boycott. It is the application of the law. Yet if Israel maintains its occupation, and spurns the peace terms being negotiated by US secretary of state John Kerry, such distinctions will erode. European pension funds are already starting to pull their investments in Israeli banks with branches in the settlements.

Israeli leaders, from former prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert to Tzipi Livni and Yair Lapid, justice and finance ministers in the present rightwing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, have warned that Israel faces ostracism unless it makes a deal on Palestine. Now it is the settlements that are being targeted. But that could easily morph into a general boycott.

It is disingenuous to romanticise settlement enterprises. The occupation imprisons thousands of the Palestinians’ young men, gives their land and water to settlers, demolishes their houses and partitions the remaining territory with scores of checkpoints and segregated roads. There are almost no basic foundations for an economy. The way to create Palestinian jobs is to end the occupation and let Palestinians build those foundations – not to build “bridges to peace” on other people’s land without their permission.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/13012...#axzz2s8tXDv8y
February 2nd, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I am still trying to work out what the moral of the story is here, is it:
a) Boycotts are acceptable as long as it isn't Israel.
b) Boycotts are acceptable as long as no one says they arent.
c) Boycotts are acceptable as long as it is Cuba or we impliment it.
d) Please don't bring this up again because we have no idea what we are saying and for gods sake do not mention our sanctions on Iran who haven't broken any laws.
e) All of the above

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
The beauty of the BDS boycott is that it is purely up to the individual it isn't about countries doing it and therefore does not rely on the mythical politician with a backbone to enforce and it blends in with the knowledge that regardless of what politicians think or do people can not be forced to buy a product and as such it gets around the power and money of groups like AIPAC.

It is a ground up boycott in that if enough people stop buying a product companies will stop stocking that product (as no company will stock a product that they can't turn a profit on) which by default draws them into the boycott and that process continues on up the chain.

And I think it is working as the BDS movement is getting headlines...

January 31, 2014 7:29 pm
A star stumbles in the settlements
Scarlett Johansson’s defence of her sponsor is naive

The decision by actress Scarlett Johansson to stop being an ambassador for Oxfam, the social justice charity, and continue as brand ambassador to SodaStream, an Israeli company that makes home-carbonated drink dispensers at a plant in the occupied West Bank, might be dismissed as a storm in a fizzy cup. It should not be.
I have a printed copy of many of the Israeli owned, or companies who back Israel on the side of the fridge. Fortunately much of it is not easily found in Australia, or plays a great part in our life.
--
February 2nd, 2014  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
It also says proposed Jewish state not Israel and interestingly enough the Palestine mandate doesn't mention Israel either.
True, but the Palestine mandate talks about a Jewish homeland not an Arab one.

Quote:
As for the Oslo accords administering an area is not the same as giving away the area, the Oslo Accords were only meant to last 5 years (10 if you take into account Oslo II) at which time a final settlement between the Palestinians and the Israeli's should have been struck you are confusing "administration" of land with "ownership" of land.
An administration is responsible for (change of) ownership. Otherwise no one can sell or buy a house or land. When a country takes the ownership of land that is (officially) not theirs it is called annexation. Israel did not annex the West Bank. The "Palestinians" have as of yet not the legal sovereignty of the West Bank. The Oslo accords are between Israel and the PLO (PA).

Quote:
How many British settlements were built in the Ottoman Empire, how much of the Ottoman Empire has Britain kept as part of "Greater" Britain?
Name a US settlement in Iraq, Germany or Japan.
The settlements in area c of the West Bank are not part of Israel. The only thing Israel does, because it is responsible for civil rule, is give building permits, just as the allies did in Germany, Japan and Iraq when they ran the civil administration. Whether those settlements become Israeli or Palestinian depends on the outcome of the talks between them.

Quote:
So let me see if I understand this it was land never assigned to Jordan but because they took it and then Israel attacked them "defensively" (yeah it amuses me as well) it suddenly became legitimate Israeli land?
The Egyptians closed the Gulf of Aqaba to israeli shipping. This is according to international customary and treaty law an act of war which gave Israel a legitimate reason to attack. This is called a defensive war. Since Jordan had joined the alliance between Syria and Egypt they too were a legitimate target. The land Israel took from Jordan is not annexed by Israel. In fact nowhere is stated what happens to land not yet allocated that was illegally annexed and liberated/conquerd afterwards by another country that does not annex it.

Quote:
Now if I stole a car and Senojekips then showed up, beat me up and took the car you are saying it is now his car?
I would suggest that the law like the UN would still see it as stolen property.
As long as it is not given away or sold by the owner it stays his property. The "Palestinians" never owned it. There never was any "Palestinian" society until Arafat came and founded with Jewish help the PA. The only surviving society is the Jewish one, all others have vanished.

Quote:
I can certainly see why the Israelis have tapped you to sell their propaganda you stick to story line no matter how discredited it is, without a doubt you earn your 30 shekels.
Wishfull thinking.

Quote:
I tend to think you are still labouring under the impression that we believe you are just a "concerned citizen with a somewhat sycophantic love for Israel" when in reality we know exactly what your game is as the Hasbara manual is all over the internet along with how to combat it.
Wishfull thinking.

Quote:
Surely the fact that you have been abandoned here even by Israelis indicates you just aren't convincing anyone, my suggestion would be to talk to your supervisor maybe they can assign you a more appropriate board to help develop those skills you will need to sell the misery of those you oppress as the right thing to do.
Can't do that. I do not have supervisors.

Quote:
Oh yeah and here is a neat little factoid for ya, guess what feat got the Oslo Accords started?

A) The PLO recognized the State of Israel. Israel recognized the PLO as "the representative of the Palestinian people"; no more, no less.

Yes that would be the same Palestinians that you keep saying don't exist.
You are twisting my words. I said that the "Palestinians" never existed untill Arafat came along. BTW, Arafat was Egyptian.

Quote:
Let me make it clearer for you, this is what you are trying to sell...
Wrong picture, this is a better one:

May 8, 1970: Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) terrorists attacked an Israeli school bus with bazooka fire, killing nine children and three teachers. The victims were from Moshav Avivim.

Now, about the boycot. Who will benefit from the boycot? I give an example.
PGGM (not the largest Dutch pension fund as was mentionend in the media, APB is twice as big) is going to withdraw their investments in Israeli banks linked to West Bank projects. Read that again , Israeli. They still hold investments in companies like Veolia (Dutch), Alstom (French) and G4S (British) who also are involved in projects in the west Bank. But there is more, they also invested in two Chinese banks (Bank of China and China Construction Bank) both involved in Chinese projects in Tibet, which the Chinese occupy. It seems that Palestinians are much more valuable than Tibetans. But they also invest in Turkish and Indomesian state securities. Turky occupies northern Cyprus since 1974 and Indonesia Western New Guinea since 1963. And I can go on. More here. The real reason is propably this: to attract the Dutch muslim population (almost 1 million) and anti-israeli groups to buy their products.
If the boycots are succesfull, and that's what you want isn't it, then 20.000 Palestinians will lose their jobs. Of course that's not your problem but I do care about those people. 20.000 families in financial ruin. No help comes from the PA because they need the money to give 6 figure incomes to the terrorists who are kept in Israeli jails. The Israeli companies? Well, they move to Israel and it is back to business as usual.
Here some facts:
- Standard & Poor's will leave Israel's credit rating unchanged at A+, projecting its economy will remain stable.
- Foreign investment in israel increased from $4.4 billion in 2009 to almost $10 billion in 2013.
- The Bank of israel has almost $80 billion in reserve.
- Newly discovered gas fields are estimated to be worth billions of dollars.
- Last year Israeli companies exported about $62 billion worth of goods.
February 2nd, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
So, VD, you're back from your Hasbara re-education classes.

How about you demonstrate to us that you are not just pathological liar making up your lies as you go along, before starting on your "We are the Victims" Hasbara bullsh!t.

I notice that you still have not shown and explained your miraculous interpretation of your oft quoted "Frame 633" in which you claim you can see an "uninjured foot" inside a shoe .

Can you also explain how the projectile that you claim missed the victim by 40cms hitting the ground 6 metres to his rear was also claimed to have "Blistered his toe" on top of which the visual evidence clearly shows both stories to be lies,... but then again, we are dealing with a country so determined to attempt to whitewash it's War Crimes and innumerable Crimes against Humanity that it actually formed a government department to organise it.

You still have not been able to produce this mysterious "uncut" video showing the projectile hitting the ground 6m behind the victim and having this alleged "conversation" on it.
So far there is absolutely no evidence that this conversation ever took place, and the only mention that can be found of it is on a Hasbara site run by Rivka Shpak Lissak, an Israeli born Hasbarat, quoting Jonathan D. Halevi an ex Lt Col. in the IDF, now employed by The Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs (A recognised Hasbara site).

There's a lot more but it can wait.

Don't even bother deleting or changing your posts as I have saved all the pages as .html files.
February 2nd, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
I waited a week for that reply?
I realise the Hasbara bots are running around putting out an ever greater number of fires these days but you could have taken an extra day to come up with a worthwhile response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Now, about the boycot. Who will benefit from the boycot? I give an example.
PGGM (not the largest Dutch pension fund as was mentionend in the media, APB is twice as big) is going to withdraw their investments in Israeli banks linked to West Bank projects. Read that again , Israeli. They still hold investments in companies like Veolia (Dutch), Alstom (French) and G4S (British) who also are involved in projects in the west Bank. But there is more, they also invested in two Chinese banks (Bank of China and China Construction Bank) both involved in Chinese projects in Tibet, which the Chinese occupy. It seems that Palestinians are much more valuable than Tibetans. But they also invest in Turkish and Indomesian state securities. Turky occupies northern Cyprus since 1974 and Indonesia Western New Guinea since 1963. And I can go on. More here. The real reason is propably this: to attract the Dutch muslim population (almost 1 million) and anti-israeli groups to buy their products.
Oh no not the vast and powerful Dutch Muslim Lobby, Holland has never been the same since they made all the windmills face Mecca.
Yep and Dutch apparently see Israel as worse than all of the other attrocities mentioned congratulations you should be proud to be backing an occupation that not even bankers want to deal with.

Quote:
If the boycots are succesfull, and that's what you want isn't it, then 20.000 Palestinians will lose their jobs. Of course that's not your problem but I do care about those people. 20.000 families in financial ruin. No help comes from the PA because they need the money to give 6 figure incomes to the terrorists who are kept in Israeli jails. The Israeli companies? Well, they move to Israel and it is back to business as usual.
Well given that a victory will free 2.5 million other Palestinians from the apathied system you have them under now I am not sure the sacrifice of "20,000" incomes is a huge deal compared to what will be gained.

Nice try though, hell a ton of Frenchmen had jobs building the Atlantic wall for Hitler do you consider the Allies inconsiderate for launching D-Day and putting them out of work?

Quote:
Here some facts:
- Standard & Poor's will leave Israel's credit rating unchanged at A+, projecting its economy will remain stable.
- Foreign investment in israel increased from $4.4 billion in 2009 to almost $10 billion in 2013.
- The Bank of israel has almost $80 billion in reserve.
- Newly discovered gas fields are estimated to be worth billions of dollars.
- Last year Israeli companies exported about $62 billion worth of goods.
Cool hopefully we can get that down a bit over the next few years, always good to have targets.

Here is a nice story from Roger Waters of Pink Floyd fame...
A note from Roger - February 1, 2014


February 1, 2014 at 5:46am
In the past days I have written privately to Neil Young (once) and to Scarlett Johanson (a couple of times). Those letters will remain private.


Sadly, I have received no reply from either.


And so I write this note on my Facebook page somewhat in bewilderment.


Neil? I shall ponder all of this long and hard. We don't really know each other, but, you were always one of my heroes, I am confused.


Scarlett? Ah, Scarlett. I met Scarlett a year or so ago, I think it was at a Cream reunion concert at MSG. She was then, as I recall, fiercely anti Neocon, passionately disgusted by Blackwater (Dick Cheney's private army in Iraq), you could have been forgiven for thinking that here was a young woman of strength and integrity who believed in truth, human rights, and the law and love. I confess I was somewhat smitten. There's no fool like an old fool.
A few years down the line, Scarlett's choice of Soda Stream over Oxfam is such an act of intellectual, political, and civil about face, that we, all those of us who care about the downtrodden, the oppressed, the occupied, the second class, will find it hard to rationalize.


I would like to ask that younger Scarlett a question or two. Scarlett, just for one example, are you aware that the Israeli government has razed to the ground a Bedouin village in the Negev desert in Southern Israel 63 times, the last time being on the 26th of December 2013. This village is the home to Bedouin. The Bedouin are, of course, Israeli citizens with full rights of citizenship. Well, not quite full rights, because in "Democratic" Israel there are fifty laws that discriminate against non Jewish citizens.


I am not going to attempt to list, either those laws(they are on the statute book in the Knesset for all to research) or all the other grave human rights abuses of Israeli domestic and foreign policy. I would run out of space. But, to return to my friend Scarlett Johanson.


Scarlett, I have read your reposts and excuses, in them you claim that the Palestinian workers in the factory have equal pay, benefits and "Equal rights". Really? Equal Rights? Do they?

Do they have the right to vote?

Do they have access to the roads?

Can they travel to their work place without waiting for hours to pass through the occupying forces control barriers?

Do they have clean drinking water?

Do they have sanitation?

Do they have citizenship?

Do they have the right not to have the standard issue kicking in their door in the middle of the night and taking their children away?

Do they have the right to appeal against arbitrary and indefinite imprisonment?

Do they have the right to re-occupy the property and homes they owned before 1948?

Do they have the right to an ordinary, decent human family life?

Do they have the right to self determination?

Do they have the right to continue to develop a cultural life that is ancient and profound?

If these questions put you in a quandary I can answer them for you. The answer is, NO, they do not.

The workers in The Soda Stream Factory do not have any of these rights.

So, what are the "equal rights" of which you speak?

Scarlett, you are undeniably cute, but if you think Soda Stream is building bridges towards peace you are also undeniably not paying attention.


Love
R.



http://www.facebook.com/notes/roger-...f_t=note_reply
February 4th, 2014  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
So, VD, you're back from your Hasbara re-education classes.

How about you demonstrate to us that you are not just pathological liar making up your lies as you go along, before starting on your "We are the Victims" Hasbara bullsh!t.

I notice that you still have not shown and explained your miraculous interpretation of your oft quoted "Frame 633" in which you claim you can see an "uninjured foot" inside a shoe .

Can you also explain how the projectile that you claim missed the victim by 40cms hitting the ground 6 metres to his rear was also claimed to have "Blistered his toe" on top of which the visual evidence clearly shows both stories to be lies,... but then again, we are dealing with a country so determined to attempt to whitewash it's War Crimes and innumerable Crimes against Humanity that it actually formed a government department to organise it.

You still have not been able to produce this mysterious "uncut" video showing the projectile hitting the ground 6m behind the victim and having this alleged "conversation" on it.
So far there is absolutely no evidence that this conversation ever took place, and the only mention that can be found of it is on a Hasbara site run by Rivka Shpak Lissak, an Israeli born Hasbarat, quoting Jonathan D. Halevi an ex Lt Col. in the IDF, now employed by The Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs (A recognised Hasbara site).

There's a lot more but it can wait.

Don't even bother deleting or changing your posts as I have saved all the pages as .html files.
Sounds you are a desperate man. Why do you bring this up when the one who was shot told, not only the court but also B'Tselem and journalists (completely free of pressure), that he had a blister on the richt side of his left toe. But of course, you there in Ausralia claims to know it all better than the one who was hit. Did you call hem yet? He is walking around with a 15mm hole caused by a 15mm steel bullet that went right through his foot with a small nice hole and white blood (very dangerous!) dripping out and he is not aware of it! Maybe they must amputate his foot because gangrene has set in.

I think the "Palestinians" are aliens. The above has white blood and the Al Dura's, claimed to have been riddled with bullets, don't bleed at all. Injured "protesters" hump in an ambulance and miraculously are cured within seconds or the medics look at a right leg and the left one is cured!
You must contact the manager of Monty Python so they can make a movie about it and everyone will laugh their socks off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I waited a week for that reply?
I realise the Hasbara bots are running around putting out an ever greater number of fires these days but you could have taken an extra day to come up with a worthwhile response.
Wishfull thinking

Quote:
Oh no not the vast and powerful Dutch Muslim Lobby, Holland has never been the same since they made all the windmills face Mecca.
Yep and Dutch apparently see Israel as worse than all of the other attrocities mentioned congratulations you should be proud to be backing an occupation that not even bankers want to deal with.
You don't know how powerfull (not only Dutch) muslim lobbyists are? Shame on you! Did you know that Obama has 6 (!) Muslim Brotherhood advisers around him? Are you aware of the charter of the Muslim Brotherhood, designated a terrorist organization in their country of origin?
Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna: “It is in the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its law on all nations and to extend its power to the entire planet.”

Instead of looking at anti-israel internet pages (full of lies of course) you would better do some research on the links all those different muslim organisations have with each other and don't be surprised to find many links to Al Qaeda, including the oh so peaceful charity organisations.

Quote:
Well given that a victory will free 2.5 million other Palestinians from the apathied system you have them under now I am not sure the sacrifice of "20,000" incomes is a huge deal compared to what will be gained.
You surprise me. I thought your knowledge was better. From the 2.5 million, only about 150.000 resort under full Israeli civilian rule (area C) and most of them belong to herding communities.
Did you know that more than 100.000 "Palestinians" work in Israel? Do you also want them to lose their jobs? But there is more that you don't (want?) to know. The "Palestinian" labor force in the West Bank is about 1.134 million, that means that about 10% of the working population of the Palestinians work in Israel or Israeli settlements. As of know there are 152.000 unemployed. If you add an extra 100.000 to it then you have a major problem!
Are you still convinced of the "sacrifice"?

Quote:
Nice try though, hell a ton of Frenchmen had jobs building the Atlantic wall for Hitler do you consider the Allies inconsiderate for launching D-Day and putting them out of work?
Again your ignorance strikes me! The Frenchmen were forced labourers the Palestinians are not. They are free to work there or keep being unemployed or work for much less pay.

Quote:
Cool hopefully we can get that down a bit over the next few years, always good to have targets.
You didn't know? Shame in you! Wait untill they start exporting their gas. They'll become energy independent. bad news for you, isn't it?

Quote:
Here is a nice story from Roger Waters of Pink Floyd fame...
A note from Roger - February 1, 2014


February 1, 2014 at 5:46am
In the past days I have written privately to Neil Young (once) and to Scarlett Johanson (a couple of times). Those letters will remain private.


Sadly, I have received no reply from either.


And so I write this note on my Facebook page somewhat in bewilderment.


Neil? I shall ponder all of this long and hard. We don't really know each other, but, you were always one of my heroes, I am confused.


Scarlett? Ah, Scarlett. I met Scarlett a year or so ago, I think it was at a Cream reunion concert at MSG. She was then, as I recall, fiercely anti Neocon, passionately disgusted by Blackwater (Dick Cheney's private army in Iraq), you could have been forgiven for thinking that here was a young woman of strength and integrity who believed in truth, human rights, and the law and love. I confess I was somewhat smitten. There's no fool like an old fool.
A few years down the line, Scarlett's choice of Soda Stream over Oxfam is such an act of intellectual, political, and civil about face, that we, all those of us who care about the downtrodden, the oppressed, the occupied, the second class, will find it hard to rationalize.

----skipped by me, post was too long.

Love
R.



http://www.facebook.com/notes/roger-...f_t=note_reply
Well another person who only respects people who think the same like him and treat others like morons. And I must believe those guys want everyone to be treated equal when they themselves don't?
I say two thumbs up for Scarlett!!
February 4th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS

Wishfull thinking
So we finally have the confession, all that "I am not associated with Israel" story you have fed us is just what everyone else understood you are a paid shill.


Quote:
Instead of looking at anti-israel internet pages (full of lies of course) you would better do some research on the links all those different muslim organisations have with each other and don't be surprised to find many links to Al Qaeda, including the oh so peaceful charity organisations.
The funny thing is that the vast majority of those "anti-Israel" pages you claim I am looking at are in fact Jewish websites but then if you pulled your head out of the "pro-zionist" propaganda pages you would understand that.

But then you are fighting a war where you are hamstrung by the fact that everyone knows your tactics and where your only recourse is to stifle debate with the same old rhetoric of "anti-Semitic" chants as was shown by the campaign against the Modern Language Association...

Quote:
February 3, 2014
The Sound of Silencing in American Academe 1Lauren Rolwing for The Chronicle
By Marianne Hirsch

I’ve attended more than three dozen conventions of the Modern Language Association, but this year’s was different. And that’s not because I was MLA president, organized a forum, and delivered my presidential address. It was because I became the target of an intimidation campaign that took the form of hate-email blasts, public attacks, personal letters and phone calls, and insistent appeals to stop one of the convention’s 800 sessions before it was held. The session was called "Academic Boycotts: A Conversation About Israel and Palestine."

Unlike the American Studies Association, which voted in December to "endorse … the call of Palestinian civil society for a boycott of Israeli academic institutions," the MLA was not considering a boycott resolution. Nonetheless, the emails I received were written as if a boycott resolution were not only under consideration but had already passed.

The specific resolution on the agenda of the MLA’s Delegate Assembly concerned restrictions on the freedom of travel for American students and faculty members of Palestinian descent to universities in the West Bank. Those restrictions are documented on the U.S. State Department website, and the resolution asked the MLA to urge the State Department to "contest" them.

The messages that poured in from individuals and groups like Hillel and the Israel on Campus Coalition persisted in mischaracterizing, exaggerating, and distorting both the session and the resolution. "Shame on MLA for the hate and anti-Semitism," one email read. Many demanded "balance." But academic conference sessions are not talk-show debates; speakers explore a topic, raise questions, and advance nuanced conclusions. Disagreement can be voiced during the discussion period. Critics have claimed that academic boycotts violate academic freedom and the open exchange of ideas. Yet the vehemence of the opposition, the hyperbolic fliers that were distributed condemning boycotts, and the portrayal of the session as a foregone conclusion, in fact blocked the open conversation that we in the U.S. academy need to nurture and protect.

At the same time, the MLA resolution to "urge" the State Department to "contest" Israeli travel restrictions was mischaracterized as "condemning" Israel. Eric Fingerhut, president of Hillel, and Jacob Baime, executive director of the Israel on Campus Coalition, wrote a letter to university presidents asking them to take pre-emptive action against the MLA. "Rather than speaking after the fact, as we were forced to do with the ASA resolution," their letter reads, "we urge you to make clear, in advance of the MLA resolution, your opposition to it and to any other effort to hold Israel to a different standard than any other nation."

Some of the emails my colleagues and I received were accompanied by well-known photographs of Nazis with signs calling for boycotts of Jewish stores. One, in particular, was sent by many dozens of people from around the country and abroad:

"I am writing in protest of the Modern Language Association’s resolution to ‘condemn Israel’s denial of entries to academics invited to Palestinian universities.’ … Boycotts of the Jewish people were commonplace in Europe leading up to the Holocaust, and led to the extermination of 6 million of our people in the Shoah. Less than 80 years ago Jews suffered our biggest losses, but we also made our biggest gain: a homeland for the Jewish people. Finally, after 4,000 years of unwavering persecution, a land to call our own. We will never leave that land, and the MLA can do nothing about it.

"The Jewish people have faced many enemies over the years. We have defeated all of them, including Nazi Germany. Your resolution is simply another attempt to remove us from our historic claim to the land of Israel. In doing so, you only serve to discredit yourselves."

Note what the email conflates: "contest" with "condemn" and the resolution with a full-fledged boycott and an attempt to remove Jews from Israel. Note, above all, how it distorts history.

As a daughter of Holocaust survivors and as someone who has been doing scholarly work on the cultural memory of the Holocaust for over two decades, I was viscerally upset to read these accusations and to see Nazi propaganda images on my computer screen. But I was more disheartened by how American Jewish organizations and their members insisted on violating the painful history of Jews, including that of my parents, to foreclose discussion of the policies of the state of Israel and their impact on Israeli and Palestinian education.

Hyperbole is not limited to one side where discussions of Israel/Palestine are concerned. For example, a recent article on the Electronic Intifada website pre-empts all opposition to academic boycotts, for whatever reason, stating that "Academic boycott — along with its partners, divestment and sanctions — serves the greater goal of Palestinian decolonization. No matter the specific nature of the argument, all negative responses to boycott illustrate a profound discomfort with that possibility."

When it comes to the topic of Israel and Palestine, discussion is curtailed before it begins. In a debate that is structured to allow only two clear-cut sides, words lose their meaning. And logic is twisted to stifle expression. Russell Berman, a professor at Stanford, said at an alternative panel, held off-site during the convention: "Criticism of Israeli policies or Zionism is not necessarily anti-Semitic. But the mere fact that one has anti-Zionist views does not prove that one is not anti-Semitic."

Some words have become so inflammatory that their mere mention unleashes the extreme reactions we’ve been witnessing. "Boycott" is such a word, and, if we could discuss the constellation of issues to which that term applies, we could also put into historical perspective the call to boycott by Palestinians and Israelis, Jews and non-Jews. We could sort out how limited the practical effects of a boycott of institutions rather than individuals by scholarly associations like the ASA would be. We could sort out the ethics and politics of boycott as symbolic action. And we could explore alternative means of expressing solidarity with Palestinian colleagues, means that might be less divisive.

Many people have questioned the MLA’s right to intervene in politics. But isn’t it precisely our linguistic expertise that could help sort out the irreconcilable meanings of words, their irresponsible deployment, and the practices of silencing that ensue?

To create the space for the difficult conversations we need to have now and in the future, we must get beyond the silences imposed in the name of academic freedom. We need our academic leaders, our university presidents, not to condemn our scholarly associations, but rather to protect our right to have and to sponsor those important conversations free from harassment campaigns and pre-emptive threats.

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Sou...ing-in/144339/
Quote:
You surprise me. I thought your knowledge was better. From the 2.5 million, only about 150.000 resort under full Israeli civilian rule (area C) and most of them belong to herding communities.
Did you know that more than 100.000 "Palestinians" work in Israel? Do you also want them to lose their jobs? But there is more that you don't (want?) to know. The "Palestinian" labor force in the West Bank is about 1.134 million, that means that about 10% of the working population of the Palestinians work in Israel or Israeli settlements. As of know there are 152.000 unemployed. If you add an extra 100.000 to it then you have a major problem!
Are you still convinced of the "sacrifice"?
Yes I am convinced it is worth the sacrifice, seriously what price do you put on freedom especially since you are on a forum where people are prepared to die for theirs, I honestly do not care how many unemployed Palestinians there are if in the end they are free of Israeli oppression and I will stick to that opinion as long as Palestinians are willing to fight for their cause.

Quote:
Again your ignorance strikes me! The Frenchmen were forced labourers the Palestinians are not. They are free to work there or keep being unemployed or work for much less pay.
I would argue that the analogy stands as the Palestinians have little choice but work for the occupation given that the occupation force do everything they can to ensure that the Palestinians are a captive work force.

And I quote from that "Muslim" website the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs occupied Palestinian territory.

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/och...16_english.pdf
February 4th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You didn't know? Shame in you! Wait untill they start exporting their gas. They'll become energy independent. bad news for you, isn't it?
Of course they will need to find someone to buy the gas and develop the fields and if said boycott continues to grow it may not be quite so lucrative, just ask the Iranians how well sanctions/boycotts work on an economy.



Quote:
Well another person who only respects people who think the same like him and treat others like morons. And I must believe those guys want everyone to be treated equal when they themselves don't?
I say two thumbs up for Scarlett!!
I was going to skip this but then I noticed you cut the important part of the letter out so I figured I should bring that oversight to your attention again after all we would not want to see such important information just forgotten.

I will leave the Scarlett references out as she really is a nonentity in the discussion...
Quote:
I have read your reposts and excuses, in them you claim that the Palestinian workers in the factory have equal pay, benefits and "Equal rights". Really? Equal Rights? Do they?

Do they have the right to vote?

Do they have access to the roads?

Can they travel to their work place without waiting for hours to pass through the occupying forces control barriers?

Do they have clean drinking water?

Do they have sanitation?

Do they have citizenship?

Do they have the right not to have the standard issue kicking in their door in the middle of the night and taking their children away?

Do they have the right to appeal against arbitrary and indefinite imprisonment?

Do they have the right to re-occupy the property and homes they owned before 1948?

Do they have the right to an ordinary, decent human family life?

Do they have the right to self determination?

Do they have the right to continue to develop a cultural life that is ancient and profound?

If these questions put you in a quandary I can answer them for you. The answer is, NO, they do not.

The workers in The Soda Stream Factory do not have any of these rights.

So, what are the "equal rights" of which you speak?

Scarlett, you are undeniably cute, but if you think Soda Stream is building bridges towards peace you are also undeniably not paying attention.
February 4th, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VD
Sounds you are a desperate man. Why do you bring this up when the one who was shot told, not only the court but also B'Tselem and journalists (completely free of pressure), that he had a blister on the richt side of his left toe. But of course, you there in Ausralia claims to know it all better than the one who was hit. Did you call hem yet? He is walking around with a 15mm hole caused by a 15mm steel bullet that went right through his foot with a small nice hole and white blood (very dangerous!) dripping out and he is not aware of it! Maybe they must amputate his foot because gangrene has set in.

I think the "Palestinians" are aliens. The above has white blood and the Al Dura's, claimed to have been riddled with bullets, don't bleed at all. Injured "protesters" hump in an ambulance and miraculously are cured within seconds or the medics look at a right leg and the left one is cured!
You must contact the manager of Monty Python so they can make a movie about it and everyone will laugh their socks off.
I'm not desperate, I'm having the time of my life exposing you for what you are,... a pathological Liar, who will make up, and say absolutely anything to evade the truth.

Please show the video where the victim is walking around on his wounded foot.
Foot wounds don't necessarily lead to Gangrene and it's not mentioned anywhere so obviously this is another of your miraculous diagnoses.
There is no "white" blood, but there is the sun reflecting of a growing wet stain emanating from the exit hole in the sole of the victim's shoe.
Please provide a link to the claim that the Al Durah's stated to be "riddled" with bullets. (and Yes, I did notice your childishly lame attempt at evading the subject at hand by changing the subject).

(1).
Quote:
Originally Posted by VD
the way the soldier holds the weapon when fired he can impossible hit the "demonstrator's" foot
OK so on this one occasion we will say, "his foot was not hit",....
(2).
Quote:
Originally Posted by VD
Abu Rahmeh, 27, took off his shoe and showed a large blister on his toe, with bruising underneath. He said for several days after the shooting, the toe was swollen.
But,... you had just said that it was impossible to hit the victim's foot based on the way the lump of sh!t was holding the weapon. It was also recommended by the Israeli prosecutor that their crimes were serious enough that they should be sentenced to terms of imprisonment for their crimes, I can't imagine that being asked for, for a "blistered toe".

Also there is this absolute howler.
(3).
Quote:
Originally Posted by VD
Physician Nahum Shahaf determined unequivocally in his official affidavit that this could not have been the case because geometric analysis of the ricochet’s trajectory as spotted in several frames and the angel (sic) of the gun barrel. The convergence of both angels indicates that rubber bullet hit the sidewalk about six meters behind the Palestinian detainee and in a distance of about 30 to 40 centimeters from his left side of his body.
It would seem that the Israelis seem to have a great dealt of difficulty getting their lies to agree. So this demonstrates very clearly that so called "evidence" emanating from the Israeli court is highly suspect as it releases mutually contradictory statements, which is a good indication that it has been "sanitised" for release to the public. That's what happens when you tell lies.
(4). You also stated that the victim was not a protester.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VD
That guy was not "a Palestinian protester"
A fact disproven in the very beginning of the video where he is clearly seen protesting in centre screen. Another blatant Lie. made up by you to suit your story.

On top of which you stated that the original video was longer with all manner of audio evidence that had been edited out. Something that was not raised nor proven in the subsequent IDF investigation or court proceedings, and only one mention of this can be found on a pro-Israel blog. You claim to know what was said yet can't produce any evidence as to how you know this? You are lying again.

All of your bullsh!t aside, I see you never made any attempt to answer the questions that I've been asking for a week now.
Quote:
How about you demonstrate to us that you are not just pathological liar making up your lies as you go along, before starting on your "We are the Victims" Hasbara bullsh!t.

I notice that you still have not shown "Frame 633"and explained how you could see that the foot within the shoe was "uninjured"

Can you also explain how the projectile that is also claimed to have missed the victim by 40cms hitting the ground 6 metres to his rear was also claimed to have "Blistered his toe" on top of which the visual evidence clearly shows both stories to be lies,... but then again, we are dealing with a country so determined to attempt to whitewash it's War Crimes and innumerable Crimes against Humanity that it actually formed a government department to organise their lies. The amazing "Blistered Toe" story also does not agree with evidence given about rubber coated steel bullet wounds, by Israeli doctors who stated that these projectiles could pierce the skull and break bones at ranges exceeding 40 yards. This wounding was done at a range of 1-1.5 metres.

You still have not been able to produce this mysterious "uncut" video showing supposed evidence that the projectile hit the ground 6m behind the victim, also having this alleged "conversation" on it. So far there is absolutely no evidence that this alleged conversation ever took place, the only mention that can be found of it is on a Hasbara site run by Rivka Shpak Lissak, an Israeli born Hasbarat, quoting Jonathan D. Halevi an ex Lt Col. in the IDF, now employed by The Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs (A recognised Hasbara site).
No doubt, he's probably as big a liar as you are. It appears that not even the Hasbarats are game to try and pass it off.
 


Similar Topics
Israel rightfully own the West Bank .
Israel strikes Beirut suburb, tightens blockade
A conversation with Iranian dissident (MUST READ)
Palestinians
American racism