So why do people hate Israel? - Page 169




 
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January 17th, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
I see you are still avoiding the point why this was raised even after at least two prior reminders. Anything to avoid admitting you are wrong , eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
What a messy answer. Again a lot of blablabla and your usual "evidence" like "Disproven several times" , you barely read my (and others) posts that you don't like, yet you claim what I (we) said is not true. You weren't drinking again were you?
Yes, of course I'm drinking a lot,...of water, the average daytime temperature here is 43 degrees C.

I note that you never said a single thing about the subject or to show how my statements are wrong? By now you must realise that nobody really reads your answers, because you are a proven liar who will say anything to try and gain a point, remember "the Palestinians who didn't resist the Israelis, then suddenly you are complaining about alleged Palestinian "atrocities" committed defending their land?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Of course it has nothing to do with your statement because your statement is flat out wrong.
OK you quote both posts and explain how my initial statement is wrong..... along with the photos and explanation as to how you miraculously diagnosed that the victim's foot was uninjured inside of his shoe. You are really getting yourself in a tangle here aren't you?... and it's only going to get worse for you so long as you keep lying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Ever seen a dead boy lift his arm and look to a camera? You never looked at the uncut video did you?
OK,... please post this uncut video that you allege to have seen, but even if you are correct, this in no way proves that he did not die of his injuries. (As has been said previously at least 3 times).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Same answer as in post About Rubber bullets, pros, cons, and
Seno, you are making a fool of yourself. You made a mistake but are to stubborn to admit it. That hole, which is not always seen on the video, can not come from a steel bullet that penetrated his foot. There's no blood to be seen. If he was shot like you said he was he would be crippled for the rest of his life. You see things that you want to see, not what is actually there.
I have not only quoted facts, I have also posted frames from the video to support those facts, as yoet all you have done is quote Israeli Hasbara with no visible evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
The article you quote from the Guardian can be read here: Israeli soldiers charged over shooting of Palestinian prisoner. I doubt if you read it, because this comes from the same article:
Rahmeh, one of several dozen Palestinians who had been throwing stones at soldiers, suffered a bruised toe.
I have another one, from your beloved Palestinians: Palestine: Information with Provenance (PIWP database)

The Palestinian man, Ashraf Abu Rahmeh, said yesterday he was injured in his left toe and treated at the scene. During an interview, Abu Rahmeh, 27, took off his shoe and showed a large blister on his toe, with bruising underneath. He said for several days after the shooting, the toe was swollen.
I see you have been unable to produce visual evidence of this alleged "blistered toe", which after all the fuss about the original shooting would certainly have had photos taken of it. Previously given evidence by Israeli doctors regarding the injuries suffered from steel bullets make a complete mockery of the "blistered toe" story. Another reason demonstrating that this is no more than Israeli Hasbara.

I only quoted the article to establish the date as the same as when he was shot and disprove your deliberate lie that "he was not a Protester" as it clearly states that he was arrested for "protesting", we know that the article is only Israeli Hasbara (without any photographic evidence), as I have posted a selection of clips from the video clearly showing the exit hole on the sole of the shoe with the spreading stain coming from it, hence my previously made point about how your lies and the lies of the Israeli Hasbara department (one and the same thing) never match up with the clearly visible physical evidence.

The stain emanating from that hole can be seen in a number of frames as it reflects the sun. I can't say categorically that it is blood, but what else would it be after having been shot through the foot, certainly not perspiration or a "broken blister". It's unfortunate for you, that the video actually shows a lot more than you realised before you started lying about what could and could not be seen.
January 17th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Maybe this could be why the world is changing its stance on Israel?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WBRO3Q_YGE&feature=player_detailpage"]‫וידיאו: הצבא מלווה התקפת מת*חלים בכפר עוריף‬‎ - YouTube[/ame]

Nothing like bravely throwing rocks while the army provides protection, would be interesting to see whether they would have turned a blind eye had rocks been coming the other way.

I look forward to hearing how this never happened.

And on the positive side...
Palestine is beginning to become accepted.

Academy drops 'territories' in Palestine reference

8:47 AM Saturday Jan 18, 2014


Adam Bakri in a scene from the film "Omar.".

Thursday's Oscar nominations had some new language in the foreign language category: Nominee "Omar" was described as being from "Palestine," a reference the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences has carefully avoided in the past.
"Omar," a drama set amid the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, was directed by Hany Abu-Assad, whose 2005 thriller "Paradise Now" was also nominated in the foreign language category. But after a tussle with the Israeli consulate in Los Angeles, the academy chose to refer to the film as a product of the "Palestinian Territories" or "Palestinian Authority," rather than simply "Palestine."
After hearing the news of his latest nomination and how it was identified, Abu-Assad said Thursday that having the academy refer to his entry as being from Palestine was a step in the right direction.
"The world starts to recognize that without giving the Palestinians a just solution, there will always be problems, there will always be something wrong," he said in a phone interview.

"I'm happy to get recognition from people in this business and to represent Palestine," he added. "It's not a country yet, it's not a state, it's a nation fighting for equality and freedom and justice and to represent that is an honor."
Assad said he's also received positive reviews for "Omar" in Israel, whose own Oscar entry, "Bethlehem," focusing on the relationship between an Israeli agent and his Palestinian informant, did not receive a nomination on Thursday.
Regarding its apparent change in policy about describing Palestine, academy spokeswoman Teni Melidonian said, "We follow United Nations protocol. This is not a political situation at all. We are just in the business of honoring filmmaking."
Israel's culture and foreign ministries and the Israeli consulate in Los Angeles declined to comment.
Rabbi Marvin Hier, director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, had more to say: "Getting the academy's recognition may be nice for the Palestinians, but the only recognition that really counts is the recognition that will come when they reach an agreement with the people of Israel," said Hier, a member of the motion picture academy. "Legally, there is no such country as Palestine until there will be a settlement of the Palestine-Israeli conflict."
___
Associated Press writer Tia Goldenberg in Jerusalem contributed to this report.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/united-sta...ectid=11188044
January 18th, 2014  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I see you are still avoiding the point why this was raised even after at least two prior reminders. Anything to avoid admitting you are wrong , eh?
Yes, of course I'm drinking a lot,...of water, the average daytime temperature here is 43 degrees C.

I note that you never said a single thing about the subject or to show how my statements are wrong? By now you must realise that nobody really reads your answers, because you are a proven liar who will say anything to try and gain a point, remember "the Palestinians who didn't resist the Israelis, then suddenly you are complaining about alleged Palestinian "atrocities" committed defending their land?
Up untill today there is no officially recognised Palestinian state. The PA is founded thanks to Israel. Neither Jordan nor the British Mandate nor the Ottoman Empire ever allowed a "Palestinian" state. The "Palestinians" fighting the Israelis are Jihadists, Islamists. They don't fight for a Palestinian state, they want the Jews out of muslim conquered land. The Jews revolted several times against the occupier of their former homeland. The "Palestinians" never did that for two reasons:
1 - there never were "Palestinians" before Arafat came along.
2 - there never was a "Palestinian" Homeland before Israel helped them create one.

Quote:
OK you quote both posts and explain how my initial statement is wrong..... along with the photos and explanation as to how you miraculously diagnosed that the victim's foot was uninjured inside of his shoe. You are really getting yourself in a tangle here aren't you?... and it's only going to get worse for you so long as you keep lying.
Instead of rambling along you would better read my posts. You said , and I quote from your post #1676Last edited by senojekips; 2 Days Ago at 23:10
I know you realise that I barely read your answers, but I read them well enough to see when you are just padding out a heap of rubbish to make it look like you've answered.

well, you'd better read my answers and your own linked documents. Remember this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips View Post
Originally Posted by The Guardian
The shooting took place on July 7 this year during PROTESTS against the continued construction of Israel's West Bank barrier. A bystander's video was released by the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem.
that's from your post #14 from the tread About Rubber bullets, pros, cons, and

The article that you refer to , but do not give a link to for obvious reasons ,
says that he has a bruised toe!

I gave another link from a Palestinian web site where he said ( and showed to the reporter) he had a blister on his toe with bruising underneath.

Why do you ignore that? So you claim to know it all better than the victim himself??

Quote:
OK,... please post this uncut video that you allege to have seen, but even if you are correct, this in no way proves that he did not die of his injuries. (As has been said previously at least 3 times).
You ask me to show the evidence but in case I'm right, and I am, you already ignore it? Is that how you look at evidence?
here it is:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUz55tLLXUg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUz55tLLXUg[/ame]

Quote:
I have not only quoted facts, I have also posted frames from the video to support those facts, as yoet all you have done is quote Israeli Hasbara with no visible evidence.

I see you have been unable to produce visual evidence of this alleged "blistered toe", which after all the fuss about the original shooting would certainly have had photos taken of it. Previously given evidence by Israeli doctors regarding the injuries suffered from steel bullets make a complete mockery of the "blistered toe" story. Another reason demonstrating that this is no more than Israeli Hasbara.

I only quoted the article to establish the date as the same as when he was shot and disprove your deliberate lie that "he was not a Protester" as it clearly states that he was arrested for "protesting", we know that the article is only Israeli Hasbara (without any photographic evidence), as I have posted a selection of clips from the video clearly showing the exit hole on the sole of the shoe with the spreading stain coming from it, hence my previously made point about how your lies and the lies of the Israeli Hasbara department (one and the same thing) never match up with the clearly visible physical evidence.

The stain emanating from that hole can be seen in a number of frames as it reflects the sun. I can't say categorically that it is blood, but what else would it be after having been shot through the foot, certainly not perspiration or a "broken blister". It's unfortunate for you, that the video actually shows a lot more than you realised before you started lying about what could and could not be seen.
You still don't get it do you? The victim himself said it. You claim to know it all better from Australia watching a Pallywood video than the person who was fysically there, 1 meter next to the Israeli soldier. He didn't even go to the hospital!

Here is an article from someone who shot himself in the foot with a shotgun, not a 15mm steel bullet like you claim the victim was shot with, they had to stem the blood and his toe had to be amputated. This is one of the comments:
SW France, 18/4/2013 17:48 Exactly, I love to read comments on articals like this most made by people that would not know the difference between the toe or heal of a firearm if asked. It is painfully obvious by the ridiculas comments made they do not know anything about ballistics either. A bullet does not make a clean round hole being pointed they "push" the material aside, a shotgun on the other hand at a very short distance makes a CLEAN round hole because the pellets have NOT spread plus they are encased in a plastic wad that keeps them tight together. I have shot in over 20 countries in shooting competitions (Olympic Skeet) and unfortunatly over the years have seen 3/4 similar accidents.


If you still don't get it I advice you to seek medical help.

I found a new link on aljazeera, hardly a pro Israeli media group: Israeli filmed shooting prisoner
A statement on BTselem's website said Abu Rahma stated that the bullet hit his left toe.


@MontyB

"Palestine" is not the problem. Jerusalem is. They want Jerusalem as their capital and control over the Temple Mount. They claim it is because the Mosque on the Temple mount is the third holiest site for Muslims. What they ignore is that the Temple Mount is the Jews's first holiest site. It's about religion. It was because Israel wouldn't give them control of the Temple Mount that a peace deal was not accepted. The settlements are not that a great problem. Israel want to swap them against Israeli Arab towns. guess what: the Arabs don't want to be part of a "Palestine".

Arabs: We don't want to be part of Palestinian state


But it seems they don't want their own people either!

--
January 18th, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
1 - there never were "Palestinians" before Arafat came along.
2 - there never was a "Palestinian" Homeland before Israel helped them create one.
I should not even bother answering this as like everything else you have posted in the last two years or so it has all be disproven before How many times have you been told what they are called is of no consequence. There were no Israelis before 1948, but there were Palestinians in the 5th century BCE because there was a place called Palestine and the people who live in Palestine are by default Palestinians. You can't "create" a state, country or homeland by driving the majority of the population off their own land and stealing both their land and possessions and killing those who resist the illegal takeover. That is NOT helping anyone except the Israelis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Instead of rambling along you would better read my posts. You said , and I quote from your post #1676Last edited by senojekips; 2 Days Ago at 23:10
I know you realise that I barely read your answers, but I read them well enough to see when you are just padding out a heap of rubbish to make it look like you've answered.

well, you'd better read my answers and your own linked documents. Remember this?

that's from your post #14 from the tread About Rubber bullets, pros, cons, and

The article that you refer to , but do not give a link to for obvious reasons ,
says that he has a bruised toe!

I gave another link from a Palestinian web site where he said ( and showed to the reporter) he had a blister on his toe with bruising underneath.

Why do you ignore that? So you claim to know it all better than the victim himself??
All of which has been shown to be Hasbara with at least three good reasons as to why it is a lie
(1) Evidence given by B'tselem et al, in their submission to the Israeli High Court when appying for a greater punishment for the sh!tbags who fired the steel projectile through the victim's foot in which they stated.
Quote:
Last September Abu Rahmeh , from the village of Bilin, scene of weekly protests against the Israeli wall, sustained critical wounds in his leg and was left to bleed for some time until the soldiers allowed an ambulance to take to a nearby hospital in the central West Bank city of Ramallah. I doubt that B'tselem would send false evidence to the highest Court in the land in support of their case. If they did, the IDF would soon have had the High court reject their submission.
(2) Evidence given by Israeli doctors showing that these steel projectiles can penetrate the skull and break bones at ranges of over 40 metres.
(3) Video evidence clearly showing the exit hole.
(3a)The victim was under dures because of a death threat issued by the members of the IDF.

Whereas all you give is links to hasbara issued to papers by the Israeli Hasbara Department, without any backing evidence, no video not even a photo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You ask me to show the evidence but in case I'm right, and I am, you already ignore it? Is that how you look at evidence?
here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUz55tLLXUg
It does not prove a thing. All you have shown was that he was still alive at that point where for some reason the footage just stops dead.
You give no answer as to why the Israelis have been unable to ever find the boy since this event, and when after lying about the wrong person being buried they were given permission to exhume the body to verify who it was, they suddenly changed their mind. More lies
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You still don't get it do you? The victim himself said it. You claim to know it all better from Australia watching a Pallywood video than the person who was fysically there, 1 meter next to the Israeli soldier. He didn't even go to the hospital!
B'tselem disagree as in the quote above. "sustained critical wounds in his leg and was left to bleed for some time until the soldiers allowed an ambulance to take to a nearby hospital in the central West Bank city of Ramallah."

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Here is an article from someone who shot himself in the foot with a shotgun, not a 15mm steel bullet like you claim the victim was shot with, they had to stem the blood and his toe had to be amputated. This is one of the comments:
SW France, 18/4/2013 17:48 Exactly, I love to read comments on articals like this most made by people that would not know the difference between the toe or heal of a firearm if asked. It is painfully obvious by the ridiculas comments made they do not know anything about ballistics either. A bullet does not make a clean round hole being pointed they "push" the material aside, a shotgun on the other hand at a very short distance makes a CLEAN round hole because the pellets have NOT spread plus they are encased in a plastic wad that keeps them tight together. I have shot in over 20 countries in shooting competitions (Olympic Skeet) and unfortunatly over the years have seen 3/4 similar accidents.
A great example of the lengths you will go to, to avoid the truth. "Shotgun injuries???? WTF has this to do with the subject? More totally unrelated "padding" Absolutely nothing to do with the case whatsoever. Shotguns fire an ounce and a quarter of lead pellets at far higher velocity. We are talking about a cylindrical piece of steel lightly coated in rubber or plastic at approximately 1/6th the velocity but still high enough to break bones and penetrate the skull.

Regarding your alleged clean round hole theory, you show your complete ignorance, the damage done is completely dependent on the projectile, it's velocity and the material that it penetrates, we have rubber conveyor belt as part of the backstop at our local shooting range, a large calibre wadcutter round (Very similar in shape to an Israeli rubber coated steel projectile) punches out a relatively clean round hole a mm or two smaller than the projectile itself, holes from FMJ rounds can be barely seen.I'd suggest that you are reading too many cowboy books or your Hasbara controllers are just feeding you trash.
January 19th, 2014  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Up untill today there is no officially recognised Palestinian state. The PA is founded thanks to Israel. Neither Jordan nor the British Mandate nor the Ottoman Empire ever allowed a "Palestinian" state. The "Palestinians" fighting the Israelis are Jihadists, Islamists. They don't fight for a Palestinian state, they want the Jews out of muslim conquered land. The Jews revolted several times against the occupier of their former homeland. The "Palestinians" never did that for two reasons:
1 - there never were "Palestinians" before Arafat came along.
2 - there never was a "Palestinian" Homeland before Israel helped them create one.
How odd, because when my dad was in PALESTINE at the end of WW2 the locals were called and known as PALESTINIANS. He was asked if he would like to join the PALESTINE police.

A short history of the PALESTINE POLICE.

The life span of the Palestine Police Force is brief when set against the long history of Palestine but is vivid and vibrant in the memories of those who served in that beautiful country.

On 9th. December, 1917 Jerusalem surrendered to British and Commonwealth Forces under the command of Sir H.H. Allenby, G.C.B.,G.C.M.G., and on the 11th December, 1917 Allenby entered Jerusalem by way of the Jaffa Gate. By November, 1918 the First World War had finished with the defeat of Germany and her allies, including Turkey, and the whole of Palestine had been conquered. The question of administering the conquered territory now arose.

Policing Jerusalem at first, fell to the Assistant Provost Marshall who was assisted by the Military Police. The A.P.M.'s Headquarters was set up in the compound of the Russian Buildings, later to become Police Headquarters, along the Jaffa Road.

Initially, the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (O.E.T.A.) was established and Palestine fell within the District known as O.E.T.A. (South).

With the formation of a Civil Government on 1st. July, 1920 the Palestine Police Force was born.

The first Police Commander was Lt. Col. P.B. Bramley, O.B.E., with the title of Director of Public Security and with the rank of Commandant of Police and Prisons. The police establishment at this time was 18 British Officers supported by 55 Palestinian Officers and 1,144 rank and file. The duties of the Police were described as:-

"Besides fulfilling the ordinary duties of a constabulary, such as the preservation of law and order and the prevention and detection of crime, act as their numbers will allow as escorts for the protection of tax collectors, serve summonses issued by the judicial authorities, distribute Government notices and escort Government treasure throughout the country."

How odd that there was no state known as PALESTINE yet there was a PALESTINE police force policing a country that didn't exist???
January 19th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
I think to be fair we now have two sides being deliberately obtuse, VD is correct in the statement that there was no "nation" of Palestine however everyone else is correct in the understanding that Palestine is a geographical region and has been known as such for about 3500 years.

Palestinians were not "invented" by Arafat, Palestinians are anyone living in the region of Palestine it is quite simply really.

The Palestinian government and police forces were simply administration groups for the region of Palestine.

What these institutions show in my opinion is that British intent was for the formation of a country called Palestine as was required by international law and the Palestine mandate and had it not been for war weariness and Zionist terrorism that is the country we would have had today.
January 19th, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I think to be fair we now have two sides being deliberately obtuse, VD is correct in the statement that there was no "nation" of Palestine however everyone else is correct in the understanding that Palestine is a geographical region and has been known as such for about 3500 years.
But that is not what he said, and even if he did, it would have had no bearing on the debate whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
1 - there never were "Palestinians" before Arafat came along.
Anyway, if it's good enough for VD to play silly buggers with semantics what shouldn't we? He knows as well as we do, that he has lost this argument every time he brings it up, so who is being obtuse?

Anyway regarding Palestine you only have to watch the first 11 seconds of this movie to hear that Palestine was recognised as such in the 19th century. If you care to watch the remainder it points out how Jews, Christians and Arabs had lived in relative peace for centuries prior to the arrival of the Zionists. So much for VDs claims of no Palestine, and Jews and Arabs unable to live in peace. The arrival of the Zionists tying in with the beginnings of today"s problems become painfully apparent
Jerusalem in 1896
January 19th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
But that is not what he said, and even if he did, it would have had no bearing on the debate whatsoever.
No he didn't say that you are quite correct but he has adopted the method of telling the truth by omission basically politician speak, as long as you skirt around telling the whole truth then to some people it isn't lying.

Quote:
Anyway regarding Palestine you only have to watch the first 11 seconds of this movie to hear that Palestine was recognised as such in the 19th century. If you care to watch the remainder it points out how Jews, Christians and Arabs had lived in relative peace for centuries prior to the arrival of the Zionists. So much for VDs claims of no Palestine, and Jews and Arabs unable to live in peace. The arrival of the Zionists tying in with the beginnings of today"s problems become painfully apparent
Jerusalem in 1896
I really think the argument has become overly complicated...
1) It has been proven genetically that the bulk of Israeli's do not have roots going back to the holy land.

2) It is obvious that with the disolution of the Ottoman Empire Palestine was under international law meant to get self determination.

3) It was clear from British actions that it was meant to be one nation and anything less than that was a breech of its governing laws.

4) The Balfour document is an irrelevant document as Britain can not give away what is not theirs.

5) 99% of the problem was the influx of zionists from 1920 on.
January 19th, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
No he didn't say that you are quite correct but he has adopted the method of telling the truth by omission basically politician speak, as long as you skirt around telling the whole truth then to some people it isn't lying.



I really think the argument has become overly complicated...
1) It has been proven genetically that the bulk of Israeli's do not have roots going back to the holy land.

2) It is obvious that with the disolution of the Ottoman Empire Palestine was under international law meant to get self determination.

3) It was clear from British actions that it was meant to be one nation and anything less than that was a breech of its governing laws.

4) The Balfour document is an irrelevant document as Britain can not give away what is not theirs.

5) 99% of the problem was the influx of zionists from 1920 on.
Precisely,... I know that, you know that, and it is also painfully apparent to anyone who bothers to look at the history of this problem. (except Zionists)

I guess it's just the pig headed bastard in me, that knowing I can't lose, I feel I must just keep playing 'Whack a Rat" with VD's head every time he sticks it up trying to disseminate his pro Israeli lies.
January 19th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Yeah but he is paid to do this and for the most part you don't go after the guy delivering cigarettes as it is far more effective to go after the company that makes them.

With the Israel/Palestine argument it is far more effective to keep the story simple as anything else just confuses people and confused people generally revert to what they already know or believe.
 


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