So why do people hate Israel? - Page 165




 
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January 3rd, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
So if Israel is this open democracy based on freedom and equality why would they offer up parts of Israel containing Israeli Arabs with the reasoning that would help maintain Israel's Jewish character.

Since VD has frequently pointed out that the Palestinians don't want any Jews in a future Palestinian state is some form of racism I wonder what he would make of the following news report...

Israeli Offer to PA: Annex Israeli Arabs

Maariv reports Israel is offering that the PA receive Israeli Arab population centers in return for settlement blocs.
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By Gil Ronen First Publish: 1/1/2014, 9:47 AM



Tayibe, Tira
Google Earth

Israel has suggested to the United States a plan to transfer to the Palestinian Authority (PA) areas with a dense Arab population currently inside Israel, reports Maariv-NRG. Specifically, the offer relates to the area known as the Triangle in east-central Israel, including the cities of Tayibe and Tira, in which about 300,000 Arabs live.
In return for the area ceded, Israel will get to keep settlement blocs in Judea and Samaria. Two Israeli sources confirmed the report to Maariv-NRG, and said that it would help maintain Israel's Jewish character.
A senior source was quoted as saying that the idea came up recently, as Americans stepped up their efforts to craft an agreement between Israel and the PA. “Many senior figures in Israelis support a land and population swap, and the Americans know this is a possible solution,” he said, adding that the idea seem to be gaining ground in the Americans' minds.
The newspaper notes, however, that the idea of a land swap is based on the 1949 armistice lines as a starting point for redrawing the map, and that Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyhau is not willing to go back to these lines. It adds that he does not intend to cede to the PA territory equal in size to what Israel will keep in Judea and Samaria.
Parts of Jerusalem are also to be ceded to the PA, acccording to this plan.
One of the sources added that if the Israeli offer is accepted, the Arab population inside Israel will shrink to just 12% of the total population, as opposed to about 20% at present.
Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman has been promoting this idea since 2004, as part of his proposal for solving the conflict of the Land of Israel. Liberman has been raising the idea in his meetings with Americans and Europeans. However, Israel has not submitted an official proposal in the matter.
Secretary of State John Kerry begins 2014 with a trip to the Middle East on Wednesday, bringing along his hoping to set out an agreed framework that will establish a vision of what a final peace deal would look like.
It would provide "a basis upon which one could negotiate the final peace treaty because the outlines or the guidelines for what the final deal would look like would be agreed upon, and then you would work intensively to fill out the details," an official told AFP.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...5#.UsXqp3lNO5I
January 3rd, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
So, why do people hate Israel.

These scenes might give you a clue, all that is missing are the swastika armbands.

January 4th, 2014  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
So, why do people hate Israel.

These scenes might give you a clue, all that is missing are the swastika armbands.

Arrogant bastards. I'd love to see them get a bloody good hiding.
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January 4th, 2014  
VDKMS
 
You're ignoring the evidence, facts and questions I gave.

The "Palestinians" cannot have an historical claim. There never was such a society up until a few decades ago. If it was, you would have given me names of kings, their capital and the neigbouring countries, and timeframes in which they existed. You are always jumping on the fact that the smoking gun of the Kingdom of David is not (yet) found, although there were some remarkable finds last year (2013) like the ruins of a large portion of a city wall, two gates, a pillar building and 10 houses. But more important:
"This is the only site in which organic material was found.....including olive seeds....that can be carbon-14 dated" to David's actual era

Over the past year, archaeologists excavated the site that they believed to be the fortified Judean city of Shaarayim, where David smote Goliath as described in the Bible.
King David's temple found by archaeologists in Israel


or what about this:

A carved pillar discovered near Bethlehem may be linked to the Biblical King of Kings, David himself, or perhaps validate the scope of wise Solomon's majestic kingdom. More here.

Of course you are going to ignore that these finds do not prove there was a jewish Kingdom at that time, but you cannot ignore that it might be. The place and the timeframe are right. So we can conclude this:
Ancient Jewish society : propably
Ancient Palestinian society : definitely not

But there is an abundance of evidence of a Jewish society called the Hasmonean Kingdom in Roman times.
Jewish society in Roman times : no doubt about that. Capital? Jerusalem.
Palestinian society in Roman times : definitely not

In the beginning of the 20th century there was again talk about founding a Jewish homeland. This task was given to the British who messed up and completely failed in their task. From the Palestine Mandate

the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


No word about "Palestinians" nor a historical connection of the people living there nor reconstituting a "Palestinian" homeland. Because there never was any! The people living there were Arab citizens of the Ottoman Empire.

No one ever wanted a "Palestinian" state until Arafat arrived. No one ever gave those people a "Palestinian" state, except for Israel.

About DNA? Interesting for genealogists not for societies. (Why are you ignoring the fact that paternal (father to father) DNA do prove the Jews are from that region?)

It is not the people who live there who decide, its the ones who govern it, otherwise you both wouldn't live where you live now, but back from where your ancestors came from. When you apply your reasoning about the Jews onto yourself you must leave the country where you live in.
Oh! I know! Those were "other times"! Well, those "other times" also do apply to the Jews but with more historical evidence and the support of the International Community.

That same International Community offered the Arabs a part of the land that was promised to the Jews: The Arabs refused! And as "peaceful" loving nations they attacked the Jews. Their intention? Kill every Jew. Including the ones that lived there longer than any Arab. That proves it was not about the people who lived there but about religion. That's why they want Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state. That city never was a capital of a Muslim country.

Now here's a quote from Seno
Quote:
Had these people actually been the genuine descendants of the Israelites they still would have had no claim just as I have no claim to the places my ancestors lived 2000 years ago, or even 30 years ago if it comes to that.
Then where are you going to live?? Do you belong in Australia? Do you have any historical connection to the Aboriginals? Do you have an Aboriginal ancestor? NO! Then where should you go to? If you have the right to live in Australia (or New Zealand for that matter) every Israeli has the right to live in Israel. And so did the ones who lived in the Palestine Mandate. The ones who stayed and took the Israeli citizenship were right, the ones who fled (as was told by the Arabs who were in for a massacre) were wrong. Their descendants are still living in fugitive camps while their counterparts in Israel were able to climb to the top of the Israeli society.

This conflict IS about religion. First of, the region was conquered by an Islamic army led by Rightly Guided Caliphs, meaning followers of Muhammad's example. Their goal was to impose and spread Islam. If you did not convert you had to pay taxes. If you did not convert and didn't pay taxes you were killed. Llike the maffia does.They come to your shop and you have to pay "protection" money. If you don't you must leave or they burn down your shop. If you become a member protection is free). Churches and synagogues were destroyed. Sure, if you paid taxes you were allowed to practice your belief, but with lots of limitations. Many Christians fled to Cyprus and Constantinopel, Jews stayed because it used to be their homeland. Read about what the Christians and Jews had to endure from AD1012 onwards (A History of Palestine, 634-1099).At that time Arabs did not immigrate. This is very easy to prove, because of the limited mosques build at that time.
When the British Mandate started the local Arabs wanted the land to be annexed to Syria, which was not possible, and later to Transjordan which was not allowed. Trouble began with the cleric Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem and participant of the Armenian genocide, who wanted to be the leader of a Pan-Islamic empire, where Jews and Christians are not acceptable. Just as todays clerics he was a master in fabricating rumors to incite violence against non-muslims. In 1935 (other sources say 1946) he was appointed as the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in the Palestine Mandate. The slogan of the Muslim brotherhood?
"Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and dying in the way of Allah is the highest of our aspirations."

He also was the great-uncle of Arafat (real name Mohammed Abder Rauf Arafat Al-Kudwa Al-Husseini). Religion is the most important part in any muslim country. Take ANY muslim country and you will find attacks against non-muslims. This brings me to the point where Seno claims that islamic terrorism is because of the Palestinian conflict. Nothing is farther from the truth than this one. Azzam, Bin Laden and Julaidan went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians because they were non-muslims. Bin Laden wanted a military styled training for the Mujahideen. Al Massada was his first training camp. The three also founded Maktab al-Khidamat, a charitable organization (sounds familiar? you find them all over the world). Julaidan was also head of the Red Crescent Movement in Pakistan. With their ambulances they smuggled weapons into Afghanistan. (sound familiar? Now you know why IDF soldiers sometimes stop ambulances). Azzam called the Al Massada training camp "al -Qaeda al-Saliba". The name Al Qaeda was born. Their task? A worldwide caliphat. This was in 1985! In september 1992 Ramzi Ahmed Yousef and Ahmed Ajaj (both trained in Al Qaeda camps) boarded a pakistani International Airlines plane to the USA. Ajaj was cought because of a false passport and Yousef applied for political asylum. This gave him a few months....to detonade a bomb in the World Trade Center! Upon the arrest of Ajaj they found Arab literature. One of the document's headline was translated by the FBI as "First element". Every Arab would have read it as Al-Qaeda! This manual told you what to do if they put you in prison: claim that you were tortured and that the confessions where made under threat! Sounds familiar? Every "Palestinian" knows that. According to a 2004 NSA document Al-Qaeda is in contact with Hezbollah, Hamas and the Palestine Islamic Jihad and has affiliates in over 40 (!) countries. Almoast all Islamic terror groups are in some way or another connected. All use the same tricks and all are part of the goal of a global caliphat. The "Palestinians" are just currency in the hands of the Jihadis to get Israel back into muslim hands.
January 4th, 2014  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
So, why do people hate Israel.

These scenes might give you a clue, all that is missing are the swastika armbands.


You know as an American the reasons apart from moral one's why I do not, will not, and no longer support the Zionist's government in Israel, is from scenes like this.

As an American knowing that our statesmen condone and support these types of occurrences and the governments who allow and execute violations of human rights. Such as the illegal occupation of civilian residences, as well as vandalism and more serious crimes such as manslaughter through indiscriminate bombardments.

It frightens me, frightens me on the aspect to know that if the United States Government is capable of doing this to Palestine, how far of a stone's throw would it be from having Federal Agencies tearing into civilian homes here doing the same thing? Should any upsetting event occur closer to home?

As I look around I see a pitiful amount of American's looking at that question, for the sake of our own civil interest. I am very disappointed that many of my fellow countrymen as our country is the biggest supporter of Israel do not cry out, as if we let it happen there, should anything clamity occur close to home. It wouldn't be absurd to think these could be American living rooms armed men are toying around in.
January 4th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
You're ignoring the evidence, facts and questions I gave.

The "Palestinians" cannot have an historical claim. There never was such a society up until a few decades ago. If it was, you would have given me names of kings, their capital and the neigbouring countries, and timeframes in which they existed. You are always jumping on the fact that the smoking gun of the Kingdom of David is not (yet) found, although there were some remarkable finds last year (2013) like the ruins of a large portion of a city wall, two gates, a pillar building and 10 houses. But more important:
So based on this logic I am not a New Zealander on the grounds that until 1850 there was no New Zealand, the Americans are apparently Europeans except for the native Americans of course and the Poles are Prussians, what people call themselves as a nation or grouping is immaterial many groups are still named after tribal affiliations some are named after mythical creatures (those living in Phoenix call themselves Phoenixians and I am pretty sure they don't think they descended from a firey bird that rises from the ashes) and Palestinians call themselves Palestinians because they live in a region known to the world for at least 3500 years as Palestine.

You can deny it all you like, you can ignore the obvious reason they chose the name Palestinian until Tel Aviv freezes over but it is not going to change the argument that those currently occupying their land are little more than foreign invaders hiding behind the pretense of a religion and have no scienfic, biological or archeological link to the region than I would if I took over Mexico by calling myself an Aztec.

In fact I am almost prepared to argue that it is the Israelis that are the made up grouping in the region based on the principle that almost nothing of their so called national identity can be proved including their DNA.
January 4th, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS

Now here's a quote from Seno
Then where are you going to live?? Do you belong in Australia? Do you have any historical connection to the Aboriginals? Do you have an Aboriginal ancestor? NO! Then where should you go to? If you have the right to live in Australia (or New Zealand for that matter) every Israeli has the right to live in Israel.
Not so at all, what you so carefully ignore (again), is that Australia was colonised during the "Age of Discovery" (I suggest you Google it), when there were no International laws regarding the occupation of the lands of others. This has been explained to you several times and is supported under International law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by International Law of Colonialism
Abstract:
The majority of the non-European world was colonized under an international law that is known as the Doctrine of Discovery. Under this legal principle, European countries claimed superior rights over Indigenous nations. When European explorers planted flags and crosses in the lands of native peoples, they were making legal claims of ownership and domination over the lands, assets, and peoples they had "discovered." These claims were justified by racial, ethnocentric, and religious ideas of the alleged superiority of European Christians. This Article examines the application of Discovery by Spain, Portugal, and England in the settler societies of Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, New Zealand, and the United States. The comparative law analysis used in this Article demonstrates that these three colonizing countries applied the elements of the Doctrine in nearly identical ways against Indigenous peoples. Furthermore, the six settler societies analyzed here continue to apply this law today to restrict the human, property, and sovereign rights of Indigenous nations and peoples. This Article concludes that basic fairness and a restoration of the self-determination rights of Indigenous peoples mandates that these countries work to remove the vestiges of the Doctrine of Discovery from their modern day laws and policies.
White colonisation of Australia has been recognised and accepted officially by the aboriginal people, because they know that if it was not British colonisation it would have been that of the Dutch, Spanish, Indonesian or maybe even the Chinese. I would suggest that they were lucky they were colonised by the Brits, and the Aboriginals for all the complaining of minority groups among them, are well aware of that fact.
January 5th, 2014  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
You know as an American the reasons apart from moral one's why I do not, will not, and no longer support the Zionist's government in Israel, is from scenes like this.

As an American knowing that our statesmen condone and support these types of occurrences and the governments who allow and execute violations of human rights. Such as the illegal occupation of civilian residences, as well as vandalism and more serious crimes such as manslaughter through indiscriminate bombardments.

It frightens me, frightens me on the aspect to know that if the United States Government is capable of doing this to Palestine, how far of a stone's throw would it be from having Federal Agencies tearing into civilian homes here doing the same thing? Should any upsetting event occur closer to home?

As I look around I see a pitiful amount of American's looking at that question, for the sake of our own civil interest. I am very disappointed that many of my fellow countrymen as our country is the biggest supporter of Israel do not cry out, as if we let it happen there, should anything clamity occur close to home. It wouldn't be absurd to think these could be American living rooms armed men are toying around in.
Those are photo's that you will find from any army from any country that has been in battle.

This is from the ones you support.


Ever wondered how many times American (and other) troops kicked down the doors of civilian homes in their hunt for terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan? And guess what: they were right!

Ever wondered how much money your countrymen give to "charitable" organisations that turned out to be fund raisers for terrorism?. Have you any idea how much of such organisations your FED has closed?
Ever heard of the 1993 Philadelphia Meeting? The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, Al Kifah Refugee Center, Benevolence International Foundation, Global Relief Foundation? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
So based on this logic I am not a New Zealander on the grounds that until 1850 there was no New Zealand, the Americans are apparently Europeans except for the native Americans of course and the Poles are Prussians, what people call themselves as a nation or grouping is immaterial many groups are still named after tribal affiliations some are named after mythical creatures (those living in Phoenix call themselves Phoenixians and I am pretty sure they don't think they descended from a firey bird that rises from the ashes) and Palestinians call themselves Palestinians because they live in a region known to the world for at least 3500 years as Palestine.
Your "Palestinians" didn't call themselves Palestinians until Arafat told them to do so because of political reasons. "Palestine" of today has nothing to do with the land of the Philistines. "Palestine" of today is an Islamic Arab state not yet recognised by the International community. The name "Palestine" was not used by the local population but by foreign countries because of the Christian writings. The local Jewish population called it Judea and Samaria. The local Arabs called it Syria. The Jerusalem Post named Palestine Post until 1950, the Israel Electric Company was the Palestine Electric Company. Many other Jewish organisations called themselves Palestinian before Israel was founded. Few, if any, Arab organisations called themselves Palestinian because they had more loyalties to their villages or Islam.

Quote:
You can deny it all you like, you can ignore the obvious reason they chose the name Palestinian until Tel Aviv freezes over but it is not going to change the argument that those currently occupying their land are little more than foreign invaders hiding behind the pretense of a religion and have no scienfic, biological or archeological link to the region than I would if I took over Mexico by calling myself an Aztec.
???????????? There were already Jews living there before the first Arab invaded the land! You do know that your beloved "Palestine" calls itself and Islamic Arab state? Read that again : ISLAMIC ARAB

Palestine Basic Law:
art4.2 : The principles of Islamic Shari'a shall be the main source of legislation.
art4.3 : Arabic shall be the official language.


Please tell where you find evidence that 3500 years ago there were Islamic Arabs living there.

Quote:
In fact I am almost prepared to argue that it is the Israelis that are the made up grouping in the region based on the principle that almost nothing of their so called national identity can be proved including their DNA.
?????????????? You must be kidding! You deny that their ever lived Jews in that area but are convinced that Islamic Arabs lived there for 3500 years?
Give me your evidence on which you base this ridicule thinking.
No prove of a DNA connection???? You deny the report I gave you : Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes? All of the DNA searches of the last 15 years point the Jews to the ME and one doesn't (but only maternal) and you believe that just that one only tells the truth, although he's very carefull, because he admits that paternal jewish DNA does point to the ME. I gave you the text in my reply to your post. You propably will not use the link so here's the answer again:
You better read that report again. If you would have read a little further you would have found this :

"The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring nonJewish communities during and after the Diaspora."

or the summary at the end:

"In summary, the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago. The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East."


read this article about your beloved DNA scientist: Israeli Researcher Challenges Jewish DNA links to Israel, Calls Those Who Disagree 'Nazi Sympathizers'

Well, well, well. We have a friend here who's also fond of the word 'Nazi'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Not so at all, what you so carefully ignore (again), is that Australia was colonised during the "Age of Discovery" (I suggest you Google it), when there were no International laws regarding the occupation of the lands of others. This has been explained to you several times and is supported under International law.
I love your answer. International law. Great. The United Nations created Israel, the Arabs refused their part. Now tell me, who's land was it before Israel liberated it and gave some of the land to the "Palestinians"? Jordan! Did Jordan legally occupied that region? NO! Before the Jordanians invaded that land who's was it? Not the "Palestinians" because they refused to have it, it was Palestine Mandate land and before that it was the Ottoman Empire who governed it.

Quote:
White colonisation of Australia has been recognised and accepted officially by the aboriginal people, because they know that if it was not British colonisation it would have been that of the Dutch, Spanish, Indonesian or maybe even the Chinese. I would suggest that they were lucky they were colonised by the Brits, and the Aboriginals for all the complaining of minority groups among them, are well aware of that fact.
Murrawarri Republic??

Basically, a group of aboriginal people in inland Australia are intent on seceding from the Australian commonwealth and making their own nation, based on the illegality of British colonisation. This has raised issues regarding the treatment and welfare of indigenous Australians, the legal status of Australia, the practicality of such a secession, and the potential knock on effects among other aboriginal groups who've shown great interest in the plan of the Murrawari Republic.


Israel is officially recognised and accepted by the people who live there. The Arabs who stayed applied for Israeli citizenship. Israel is recogniized and accepted by the International Community. "Palestine" as of yet is not.

It still amazes me how little you know about this "conflict".
January 5th, 2014  
Yossarian
 
 
Mr. VDKMS.

Any idea the list of police actions that the FED has set up high interest central banks destroy a country's sovereignty and enslaving it to the U.S. dollar? Speaking about Iraq that was the first reason we were kicking down doors there in the 1st place....

I find it very funny and very amusing that up until 2003, the United States had been in the game of toppling every single government that said "we want to be independent of the U.S. styled crony capitalism and remain debt free".

Saddam Hussein wanted to trade in Euros Mr. VDKMS. Mind you the world's reserve currency for almost ALL oil trading right now is in the U.S. dollar. The U.S. needed a justification to go to war, so all this public hype on "Weapons of Mass Destruction" were spun by the Bush administration.

The switching of selling Iraq's oil to Euros threatened the ONLY thing holding the now service based U.S. economy. That being the fact that all oil transactions are done in the U.S. Dollar. The FED, the same FED you claim are "good people" had no problem backing or more or less, pressuring their puppets in the Bush administration to take out Saddam. Because if Iraq was allowed to contineuly attack the U.S. dollar, then in time other Arab states would start to sell oil in other currenices as well, leading to the collaspe or removal of the U.S. dollar as the world's oil reserve currency, then the collaspe of the American economy. Every country since such as Libya and now Syria who has done anything similar get's the same treatment.

Step 1. Find a reason to topple the government of that nation.
Step 2. Rebuild that government with "aid" often being in the form of high interest repayment practices to our FED.
Step 3. Through organizations such as the IMF, " a very FED friendly organization" make that country so indebted to you that they now have no hope of ever paying you back and are now slaves, puppets if you will to U.S. Foreign policy.

You call these folks good people? You know why Iran doesn't really see eye to with the U.S. in the region? Because Iran wants to do one simple thing: sell in THEIR oil and natural resources in the currency THEY choose. But of course our over inflated quickly becoming useless Dollar must be supported. And the FED knows this, and like a spoiled child losing a game of checkers will flip the table to keep it this way. They will gladly send more American troops home in caskets to keep this crony system working.

Why does this post belong in the this thread?.... Because the U.S. Federal Reserve and Israel are in bed together on a myriad of matters. U.S. Money fresh off the printing press go the Zionists regime there every day.

And those "terrorists" In Iraq? Yes many insurgents there were Islamic fundamentalists, or part of true terror organizations. But my ancestors in my country are no strangers to being called "terrorists" by an occupying Empire. Some of those who fought coalition forces fought because the United States had the opportunity soon after invasion to settle terms to avoided open resistance. But they refused. U.S. interest came first. So let me tell you this, in your superior thinking and logic did you ever stop to think that maybe they resisted because their country was invaded by a conglomerate of hostile powers?

( This is a 2 part post but due to technical errors I cannot facilitate the 2nd post as of now. )
January 5th, 2014  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Well, well, well. We have a friend here who's also fond of the word 'Nazi'.
probably because it is the nearest analogy that can be made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
I love your answer. International law. Great. The United Nations created Israel, the Arabs refused their part. Now tell me, who's land was it before Israel liberated it and gave some of the land to the "Palestinians"? Jordan! Did Jordan legally occupied that region? NO! Before the Jordanians invaded that land who's was it? Not the "Palestinians" because they refused to have it, it was Palestine Mandate land and before that it was the Ottoman Empire who governed it.
You realise that you have lost this point no less that two or three times before on this forum. The Arabs had no need to settle for only a part of what was rightfully theirs anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Israel is officially recognised and accepted by the people who live there.
It still amazes me how little you know about this "conflict".
It would appear that i know a great deal more than you, "Israel is officially recognised and accepted by the people who live there." The Nazi state was officially recognised and accepted by the people who lived there too. You are really struggling aren't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Murrawarri Republic??
Yep,.. you are struggling, so much so that you are trying to divert the subject, however I will humour you on this one occasion as I'm a lot more aware of what it's all about than you realise.

It's a token group, whom if granted secession would refuse to accept it as they would be totally unable to manage and would end up as hunter gathers again, which may all seem very romantic while you have money in your pockets and the financial support of the government and free access to most of it's services, and they are well aware of this fact. They do not even have the support of a majority of the Aboriginal people. Within two weeks of the withdrawal of Australian rule and benefits they would have a revolution on their hands as their income, health, education and life expectancy dropped though the floor.

It's reminds me of 20 years ago when a number of disaffected Aboriginal groups stated that they wanted to administer tribal law and punishments rather than be subject to "White man's Law" among their own people, as they considered "our law" as foreign to their ways. So, the government conceded and this was introduced among those who requested it,.... it lasted about 6 months or less before the aboriginals who fell foul of their own laws refused to accept Aboriginal law or punishments and screamed for White man's law again. We are the Bogey man, until they are faced with the reality of what they say they want, when they get what they want, they soon realise how well off they were.
 


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