So why do people hate Israel? - Page 130




 
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April 26th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlylynx
I think what you all fail to realize or forget is that this is a religious war. Not Zionist vs. Muslims, but good vs. evil.
If you actually believe all that BS, you don't deserve to draw breath.

Read back through these posts, or better still read some history and forget the propaganda.

There is an element of good Vs evil, but it involves a group of religious nut cases claiming a land as theirs that they had not lived in as a majority for over 1200 years.
April 26th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlylynx
I think what you all fail to realize or forget is that this is a religious war. Not Zionist vs. Muslims, but good vs. evil. The Jews are fighting for survival against a religion that is determined to kill them all. I mean every man woman and child with glee. When you see old women party in the streets at the fall of the twin towers or an aircraft go down from a suicide bomber you should begin to realize the mind set these people have. I don't mean some of them, I mean a vast majority. The Muslims play so many dirty tricks and manipulate the western minds (so well and easily) that the world is beginning to heed their 'plea' and join in on the hate mongering. Jews do not target schools and civilians directly as the Muslims do and are surrounded by people that hate them and us to the point of madness giving their children up for suicide attacks and worse.
The Bible explains all this and its ultimate outcome and that any nation that supports Israel will prosper and those who don't do not. As we slowly are being taught to join the enemies of Israel you will see our decline increase at a faster rate which is what will happen and is happening now. Most Christians support Israel and pray for their safety, and as Christians become targeted and are persecuted more and more in our country you will see Israel's decline increase till they are finally overcome thru political subterfuge.This too is also prophesied in the Bible as many other things currently occurring in the middle east but the 'new found wealth' of oil is the impetus for the conflict. Israel's newly discovered oilfields will bring even more conflict to their nation as the greed of world leaders including ours will cause further escalation of hostilities to the area. Praying for Israel is our only hope for our nation as well as theirs.
Intriguing, I have just spent the better part of a month in Jordan and Egypt with a couple of days in the West Bank and at no stage was I targeted or persecuted and I found the Jordanians, Egyptians and Palestinians to be very friendly and accommodating.

I have to admit after VD has spent so much time tell us that Palestinians don't exist I was a little confused when I found a bunch of them in the West Bank I figured they would just be cardboard cutouts but no there they were living and breathing and imagine my surprise when I bumped into a 1300 year old Mosque for a people that apparently don't exist, boy they really seem to be taking that scam a bit far.
Seems that story doesn't stack up VD you may want to try a new line there.
April 26th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Intriguing, I have just spent the better part of a month in Jordan and Egypt with a couple of days in the West Bank and at no stage was I targeted or persecuted and I found the Jordanians, Egyptians and Palestinians to be very friendly and accommodating.

I have to admit after VD has spent so much time tell us that Palestinians don't exist I was a little confused when I found a bunch of them in the West Bank I figured they would just be cardboard cutouts but no there they were living and breathing and imagine my surprise when I bumped into a 1300 year old Mosque for a people that apparently don't exist, boy they really seem to be taking that scam a bit far.
Seems that story doesn't stack up VD you may want to try a new line there.
That mosque canot be a Palestinian one because at that time there were no Palestinians. Arafat invented the Palestinians. It was propably build or rebuild by either Jews and/or Christians who converted to Islam or by muslim arab invaders. Did they also told you that there was a synagoge in the West Bank that predates all mosques by approx 100 years? Or worse, a synagoge just outside Jericho (Wadi Qelt) that was build between 70 and 50 BC?

Muslim societies build mosques.
Jewish societies build sunagogues.

What cities did you visit in Jordan and the West Bank?
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April 26th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
If you actually believe all that BS, you don't deserve to draw breath.

Read back through these posts, or better still read some history and forget the propaganda.

There is an element of good Vs evil, but it involves a group of religious nut cases claiming a land as theirs that they had not lived in as a majority for over 1200 years.
and a group of religious nut cases originating from nowadays Saudi Arabia who invaded that country and expelled or killed everyone who wouldn't convert or wouldn't pay extra taxes as non-muslim and are now surprised that the expelled society comes back to reclaim what was once theirs.

Did the "Palestinians" revolted aginst Jordan or Egypt when their "land" was occupied (even annexed) by those countries? NO! Why? Because they were muslim. Jews are not muslims, that's what this conflict is all about. It's religious.
April 26th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
and a group of religious nut cases originating from nowadays Saudi Arabia who invaded that country and expelled or killed everyone who wouldn't convert or wouldn't pay extra taxes as non-muslim and are now surprised that the expelled society comes back to reclaim what was once theirs.

Did the "Palestinians" revolted aginst Jordan or Egypt when their "land" was occupied (even annexed) by those countries? NO! Why? Because they were muslim. Jews are not muslims, that's what this conflict is all about. It's religious.
No, the Zionists are occupiers, nothing to do with religion. My own Gt grandfather's family lived among the Arab Palestinians without any problems until the coming of the Zionists.

Once again, all been said before,... Your merry go round is fuct, you've run out of lies.
April 26th, 2013  
D.J
 
Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel (Judea) were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

Then in 70 C.E., it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land. Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews (Jews), Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!

No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs (and their Islam) were even born! The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts... all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certain dwarfs any claims that other peoples in the regions may have.

The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E. Before it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, "the Philistines." Thus, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Philistia" (further bastardized into "Palaistina") to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine." The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina"; which is derived from the Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. For example, the "Palestine Post" (forerunner of today's Jerusalem Post) newspaper and the Palestine Symphony Orchestra were all-Jewish. ThePalestine Brigade Regiment was composed exclusively of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."

There was no "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs manufactured one shortly after 1948, and then especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War! In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said, "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "Palestinian" which has been transferred over to the Arabs whereas, before 1967, "Palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the Land of Israel.

The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now, Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically from other Arabs living in any of the 24 Arab countries from which they emigrated. The suggestion that the "Palestinians" are some sub-group of Arabs with their own unique identity is pure fiction! Great propaganda... but still pure fiction! And had not the Arabs continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this historical hogwash about some ancient "Arab Palestinian" ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a real life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned! The real problem facing those Arabs today is not the lack of a homeland. The historical root-cause of their problem and frustration is the fact that the countries they came from have not agreed to accept them back in. This is why so many of them live, up until today, in refugee camps, in neighboring Arab countries, lacking fundamental civil rights.
April 26th, 2013  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
That mosque canot be a Palestinian one because at that time there were no Palestinians. Arafat invented the Palestinians. It was propably build or rebuild by either Jews and/or Christians who converted to Islam or by muslim arab invaders. Did they also told you that there was a synagoge in the West Bank that predates all mosques by approx 100 years? Or worse, a synagoge just outside Jericho (Wadi Qelt) that was build between 70 and 50 BC?

Muslim societies build mosques.
Jewish societies build sunagogues.

What cities did you visit in Jordan and the West Bank?
I see you are still dancing around reality by playing with semantics, Palestinians are what the inhabitants of the region known as Palestine have called themselves.
Now you can bleat on about what is real and what isn't but I would suggest that the reason they have chosen to give themselves a name is because they have identified a national conscience as every people have done throughout history should we argue that "French" are an invented people as France did not exist when Cesar invaded it, maybe the Germans are invented as I have never seen Germany on a map before 1870.

No we wont call them invented because we know and accept that the French are a name given to the grouping of what became Frankish tribes and the Germans are people that eventuated from the Germanic tribes all just names given to a region and as such the Palestinians are those living in the region known to the world as Palestine.

So please stop dancing on eggshells with these stupid arguments.
April 26th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J
Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam!
Nice try, but childishly simplistic.

It's nothing to do with Islam, that is only a religion that the majority (not all) of Palestinians have adopted. It has no bearing whatsoever on the debate, and is a typical red herring used by Hasbara trolls such as yourself.

If that is not the case, then, there was no "Israel" until 14 May 1948.
April 27th, 2013  
hamidreza
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J
Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel (Judea) were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

Then in 70 C.E., it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land. Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews (Jews), Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!

No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs (and their Islam) were even born! The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts... all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certain dwarfs any claims that other peoples in the regions may have.

The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E. Before it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, "the Philistines." Thus, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Philistia" (further bastardized into "Palaistina") to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine." The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina"; which is derived from the Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. For example, the "Palestine Post" (forerunner of today's Jerusalem Post) newspaper and the Palestine Symphony Orchestra were all-Jewish. ThePalestine Brigade Regiment was composed exclusively of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."

There was no "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs manufactured one shortly after 1948, and then especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War! In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said, "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "Palestinian" which has been transferred over to the Arabs whereas, before 1967, "Palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the Land of Israel.

The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now, Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically from other Arabs living in any of the 24 Arab countries from which they emigrated. The suggestion that the "Palestinians" are some sub-group of Arabs with their own unique identity is pure fiction! Great propaganda... but still pure fiction! And had not the Arabs continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this historical hogwash about some ancient "Arab Palestinian" ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a real life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned! The real problem facing those Arabs today is not the lack of a homeland. The historical root-cause of their problem and frustration is the fact that the countries they came from have not agreed to accept them back in. This is why so many of them live, up until today, in refugee camps, in neighboring Arab countries, lacking fundamental civil rights.
So the conclusion is Palestinians did mistake. They should have said to Jews: " Yes you Jews are right, this land is yours, we should leave it because it belonged to your ancestors 3000 years ago! and you should come back to recapture it!". And then Jews from all over the world should come back to Israel to reestablish the state they had 2000 or 3000 years ago! ( the thing they claim not us).
It is the idealist pro-Israelis opinion about Palestine and the stupidest too.
April 27th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I see you are still dancing around reality by playing with semantics, Palestinians are what the inhabitants of the region known as Palestine have called themselves.
Now you can bleat on about what is real and what isn't but I would suggest that the reason they have chosen to give themselves a name is because they have identified a national conscience as every people have done throughout history should we argue that "French" are an invented people as France did not exist when Cesar invaded it, maybe the Germans are invented as I have never seen Germany on a map before 1870.
Nice try but you missed the point. The Gauls or Gallic people, ancestors of the French and Belgians, fought against the invaders to preserve their "country". (there never were Romans before in that region). Caesar called what is nowadays Germany , Germania. The "Palestinians" never fought to preserve their country because they never had one , untill Israel gave them one, the first ever in their history! The fight against the Jews has nothing todo with their country but with religion. Non-muslims are not allowed to rule on muslim ground. That is also the reason why the "Palestinians" want Jerusalem as their capital, it is the birthplace of two well known religions and the muslims want to control that.

Quote:
No we wont call them invented because we know and accept that the French are a name given to the grouping of what became Frankish tribes and the Germans are people that eventuated from the Germanic tribes all just names given to a region and as such the Palestinians are those living in the region known to the world as Palestine.
Wrong, the Franks were Germans who conquered Gaul in the 6th century. It was the Franks who stopped the muslim invasion of Europe by beating their "invincible" cavalry with infantry. The muslim invaders were so terrified that they fled head over heels only to find out that their camp was destroyed by Frankish cavalry.

Quote:
So please stop dancing on eggshells with these stupid arguments.
Better learn some historical facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Nice try, but childishly simplistic.

It's nothing to do with Islam, that is only a religion that the majority (not all) of Palestinians have adopted. It has no bearing whatsoever on the debate, and is a typical red herring used by Hasbara trolls such as yourself.

If that is not the case, then, there was no "Israel" until 14 May 1948.
If it has nothing to do with Islam then why is the Palestinian constitution based on sharia law? Chapter 1 Article 4-2 : The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be the main source of legislation.
And why are radical muslim clerics on the official Palestinian TV calling for everyone to attack the Jews. Even the children programs are filled with it.

Off course, if you close your eyes for the truth you will never know it.

@D.J

Nice article. Minor correction : the Dutch magazine is called "Trouw" instead of "Trau".

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamidreza
So the conclusion is Palestinians did mistake. They should have said to Jews: " Yes you Jews are right, this land is yours, we should leave it because it belonged to your ancestors 3000 years ago! and you should come back to recapture it!". And then Jews from all over the world should come back to Israel to reestablish the state they had 2000 or 3000 years ago! ( the thing they claim not us).
It is the idealist pro-Israelis opinion about Palestine and the stupidest too.
The facts are a little bit different. The Jews didn't invade any country and the Palestinians were just living there under the rule of the Turks and later the International community (British Mandate). The Jews fought for their country, the Palestinians were just waiting for another ruler, but the problem was that the other ruler was non-muslim and that was not allowed according to their faith. The uprisings were instigated by muslim clerics not patriots who wanted to defend their country.
 


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