So why do people hate Israel? - Page 128




 
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April 9th, 2013  
D.J
 
I'm not talking about the British Mandate but the Mandate for Palestine
A legally binding document published by the League of Nations, the forerunner of the United Nations.

The Mandate was subsequently protected by Article 80 of the United Nations Charter that recognizes the continued validity of the rights granted to all states or peoples, or already existing international instruments including those adopted by the League of Nations. The International Court of Justice has consistently recognized that the Mandate survived the demise of the League of Nations. Any attempt to negate the Jewish people’s rights to Palestine, and to deny them access and control in the area designated for the Jewish people by the League of Nations, is in serious conflict with the Mandate’s legal framework.


Article 5 of the Mandate clearly states that "The Mandatory (Great Britain) shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the Government of any foreign power." The territory of Palestine was exclusively assigned for the Jewish National Home.

Article 6 states that “the Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.”

Until the United Nations remembers and accepts these obligations, a genuine peace between an Israeli government and its Arab neighbors is likely to remain elusive.
April 9th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J
I'm not talking about the British Mandate but the Mandate for Palestine
A legally binding document published by the League of Nations, the forerunner of the United Nations.
---snip---
The rubbish you submit is totally meaningless, and about what we could expect from a person who willingly participated in a aggressive military force who willingly shoots innocent civilians and supports the oppression of a nation by a society that actively promotes Ethnic cleansing as did the Nazis whom they so eagerly emulate

The "Mandate for Palestine" was to be administered by the British and it is one and the same as I mention, and would have completed the job, had it not been for Zionist terror groups who murdered innocent civilians and the mandated administrators driving them out before their work could be done.

It might pay you to remember that deliberations of the league of nations carry no more weight than those of the UN that Israel so willingly ignores and has done for over 60 years.

It was determined by the Brits that there were no "waste lands" etc and that Palestine was fully populated taking into account future population growth. This had already been noted by earlier Zionist visitors and reported to their leadership.
As for Israel's compliance:
Quote:
Thus the state of Israel places itself straight away above international law.
Imposed on the U.N. on the 11 May 1949 by the will of the United States, the State of Israel was only admitted on three conditions :
1 - Not to touch the status of Jerusalem;

2 - To allow Palestinian Arabs to come back to their homes;

3 - To respect the borders fixed by the partition decision.
Speaking about this U.N. resolution on "sharing", taken well before its admission, Ben Gurion declares:
"The State of Israel considers the U.N. resolution of 29 November 1947 to be null and void."
Don't even start going on about people not honouring sacred trusts etc. The Zionists have never honoured any of their obligations to anyone but themselves. Israel's credibility, like your own is completely non existent.

I'm not going to argue with you, as everything you mention has been covered several times already and being that Israel has the worlds record for condemnatory resolutions against it nothing you can say will hide the "Oh so obvious truth". More than China, and such sh!tholes as Somalia and Zimbabwe.
April 9th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Rubbish,... I have NEVER stated that anyplace was my "homeland" in fact I have gone to great lengths to show that I don't have a "home land" in the sense you are talking about, when I said such things as (I can't claim places in England, Holland or Eastern Europe etc.).

The term "homeland" is totally meaningless in respect to where some of your ancestors may have lived at some time. If anything, your homeland is that place where you live legally at this time, or if you choose, your place of birth. You could claim yours is Spain unless of course you are still a Belgian subject.

Every one of these replies has been covered in depth and disproven by both myself and others, most of it more than once.
So, this means that Israel is the homeland for almost all Israelis because there are born there. Many descendants from Palestinian refugees live in Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, so that means it is their homeland?

I am a Belgian citizen living in Spain.
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April 9th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
The dribblings of an idiot.

What chance did the Palestinians or any one else have, whilst they were obeying the law and waiting for the formation of the Pan Arab state agreed to by the Brits, the Zionist Terror groups drove out the officially mandated administration who had just finished fighting one war, and then encouraged the illegal immigration by European Jews who subsequently drove the native people into the neighbouring countries where they remain to this day in defiance of International Law
[quote=Israel Law Resource Center]
Israeli Violations of International law:CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL (1947-1954)*

1. ILLEGAL ACQUISITION OF LAND BY FORCE: Israel annexes land occupied by force during 1948 war (lands external to those (illegally) given by the UN partition plan (that was never ratified.) laws & principles violated, international response.
2. FORBIDDING CIVILIANS THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMES FOLLOWING THE END OF ARMED CONFLICT: Israeli government enacts laws, and employs its military to keep aproximately 750,000 Palestinian Arab civilians from returning to their homes following the end of fighting both in 1948 and in the occupied territories in 1967. Israel then violates UN resolutions ordering them to respect Palestinian's right to return to their homes (laws & principles violated, international response).
3. ILLEGAL POPULATION TRANSFER: Israel settles Israeli citizens in hundreds of Israeli settlements on occupied land not originally given to them in the UN Partition Plan (laws & principles violated, international response).
5. DESTRUCTION OF HOLY PLACES, AND INTERFERING WITH MINISTERS OF RELIGION PERFORMING THEIR RELIGIOUS DUTIES: Israeli forces have destroyed Muslim holy places, and interfered with the religious work of Muslim Imams (ministers) (laws & principles violated, international response).
7. ILLEGAL PRACTICE OF COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT: Israel repeatedly practices collective punishment against Palestinian acts of rebellion wherein an entire community is punished for the actions of a few (laws & principles violated, international response).


WTF did that come from? What has Jordan got to do with the illegal Zionist occupation of Palestine?

They don't have to, for the same reason that it was never voted upon by the UN, no one had the right to arbitrarily promise the land of another people to a third party, any agreement to do this was illegal. No where is it stated in the UN Charter that this can occur.

Absolute rubbish,... You are telling lies again, and to an audience who is already aware of that fact.
These are opinions beaten by the facts that I and D.J. have given. Although I admit that D.J.'s facts are better than mine.

May I remind you that your beloved website says :
Important Disclaimers about legal advice and claims of anti-Semitism - Please Read !

DISCLAIMER ABOUT LEGAL ADVISE:
The content of this website is for informational purposes only.
The information from this website cannot be considered to be legal advice at all.
April 9th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Oh yes, I know the truth. History? which history are you talking about the Israeli version of history, or the facts as recognised by the international community?

You last blatant lie is an indication as to who needs to wake up and learn a bit about what is going on.


Sorry to inform you. but the ICJ has already ruled on all occupied territories right back to those stolen in the 1948 war, and that their continued occupation is illegal as already posted here. Secondly International law clearly states: "
Occupation Must Never Lead To Sovereignty over Occupied or Conquered Lands of the Enemy People or Nation."

The British mandate was only responsible for that which happened whilst they were the administrators, they left nothing, when they were forced out by Zionist terror groups, everything went with them as they were the only people mandated. No Jewish homeland was ever put in place during this time, as the Zionist terror groups drove the Brits out before any arrangement could be worked out. A plan which was stillborn anyway, as it would have required the agreement of the native population as the mandate stated clearly that the Brits must administer the Palestinian territories in the interests of it's native population.

The subsequent illegal occupation and war were illegal as nowhere was it stated that the Zionist terror groups who drove the Brits out, could just take over the process themselves. They were not mandated, so in effect it could be successfully argued that the whole of Israel is actually only an occupied territory.


Resolution 181 was only ever a "recommendation" it was never ratified, and could not be ratified under international law, unless agreed to by the native people of Palestine, or Canadian people in the case of Canada etc. The Balfour declaration (basis of your sacred trust) was similarly flawed, as the land had already promised as a pan Arab state five years prior to the Balfour declaration being mooted.
Again you are not telling everything. May I remind you that the UN Security Counsel rejected draft S/1997/1991 and draft S/1997/2412 which sought to call Israeli settlements as illegal and that the ICJ did not condemn Israel but only gave advisory.

Also, the UN Charter does not grant the General Assembly or the ICJ the authority to assign or affect ‘ownership’ of the Territories.

Another thing : occupied land lays beyound your borders, but the eastern border of Israel is not yet defined. The green line is not the definite border of Israel and awaits the outcome of talks. What if it is decided that the definitive border is the eastern border of the West Bank?

Resolution 181 doesn't matter. Israel became an official member state of the UN on 11-05-1949.
April 9th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
The rubbish you submit is totally meaningless, and about what we could expect from a person who willingly participated in a aggressive military force who willingly shoots innocent civilians and supports the oppression of a nation by a society that actively promotes Ethnic cleansing as did the Nazis whom they so eagerly emulate
Your talking about Palestine! They shoot innocent Israeli (and other) civilians, they support etnic cleansing (as stated in their covenant to expell all the Jews) and they act as Nazis, no freedom of speech, Jews assaulted, history and geographic textbooks distorted.

Quote:
The "Mandate for Palestine" was to be administered by the British and it is one and the same as I mention, and would have completed the job, had it not been for Zionist terror groups who murdered innocent civilians and the mandated administrators driving them out before their work could be done.
The British did not fulfill their task as outlined in the mandate. You seem to forget that it was the "Palestinians" who first attacked the British. You propably never read the British reports from Palestine.

Quote:
It might pay you to remember that deliberations of the league of nations carry no more weight than those of the UN that Israel so willingly ignores and has done for over 60 years.
It might pay to remember that all of the territories subject to League of Nations mandates were previously controlled by states defeated in World War I. The defeat of the Ottoman Empire did not free some countries but territories that had to be managed by mandates. The local citizens had no form of government nor representatives.

Quote:
It was determined by the Brits that there were no "waste lands" etc and that Palestine was fully populated taking into account future population growth. This had already been noted by earlier Zionist visitors and reported to their leadership.
As for Israel's compliance: [INDENT] Don't even start going on about people not honouring sacred trusts etc. The Zionists have never honoured any of their obligations to anyone but themselves. Israel's credibility, like your own is completely non existent.
The British action was a sophism because there was no restriction on non Jewish immigrants.
The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the shortfall of land is, we consider, due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.
As for Israel's compliance, they did. Everything would have been the same if the Arabs had not attacked a souvereign state more than once.

Quote:
I'm not going to argue with you, as everything you mention has been covered several times already and being that Israel has the worlds record for condemnatory resolutions against it nothing you can say will hide the "Oh so obvious truth". More than China, and such sh!tholes as Somalia and Zimbabwe.
It's time that you back up your words with facts, because all I have seen from you is opinions, lies and distorted truths.
April 9th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Again you are not telling everything. May I remind you that the UN Security Counsel rejected draft S/1997/1991 and draft S/1997/2412 which sought to call Israeli settlements as illegal and that the ICJ did not condemn Israel but only gave advisory.

Also, the UN Charter does not grant the General Assembly or the ICJ the authority to assign or affect ‘ownership’ of the Territories.

Another thing : occupied land lays beyound your borders, but the eastern border of Israel is not yet defined. The green line is not the definite border of Israel and awaits the outcome of talks. What if it is decided that the definitive border is the eastern border of the West Bank?

Resolution 181 doesn't matter. Israel became an official member state of the UN on 11-05-1949.
Only under the condition that it conformed with the restrictions laid down, which it never has?? None of which has the slightest bearing on the fact that Israel was occupied illegally during a power vacuum, and in fact is actually no more than occupied territory as defined in the Israel Law Resource Center's findings.

Nor does it excuse the war crimes and other Human Rights atrocities committed by Israel in their illegal aggression to steal ever more land.

Perhaps Israel's borders remain undefined because it is not even a legal entity?

Once again why are you repeating all of this rubbish again, it has all been said before. If you think that memories are so short that you'll get a different answer you're sadly mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Your talking about Palestine! They shoot innocent Israeli (and other) civilians, they support etnic cleansing (as stated in their covenant to expell all the Jews) and they act as Nazis, no freedom of speech, Jews assaulted, history and geographic textbooks distorted.
All previously answered as is all your repetitions below.

There are no "innocent" Israeli civilians in Palestine, the Palestinians are legally able and expected to resist the theft of their land, just as the French resistance tried to expel the Nazis in their land. Remember we went through all of this before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
So, this means that Israel is the homeland for almost all Israelis because there are born there. Many descendants from Palestinian refugees live in Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, so that means it is their homeland?

I am a Belgian citizen living in Spain.
Your homeland is Belgium. NO it is not their homeland because they are there as illegal immigrants, their parents etc, are only illegal immigrants. There homeland is the last place their parents lived legally in Europe or wherever.
April 9th, 2013  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Only under the condition that it conformed with the restrictions laid down, which it never has?? None of which has the slightest bearing on the fact that Israel was occupied illegally during a power vacuum, and in fact is actually no more than occupied territory as defined in the Israel Law Resource Center's findings.

Nor does it excuse the war crimes and other Human Rights atrocities committed by Israel in their illegal aggression to steal ever more land.

Perhaps Israel's borders remain undefined because it is not even a legal entity?

Once again why are you repeating all of this rubbish again, it has all been said before. If you think that memories are so short that you'll get a different answer you're sadly mistaken.

All previously answered as is all your repetitions below.

There are no "innocent" Israeli civilians in Palestine, the Palestinians are legally able and expected to resist the theft of their land. Remember we went through all of this before?
It is not because we went through all this before that you are right. Your Israel Law Resource Center claims that it has proof of Israeli violations according to law but states that here statements are not allowed to be used as .... legal evidence.

FACT is that the Palestinians are able to administer their own people for the first time EVER thanks to Israel. The ottomans didn't do it, the Jordanians didn't do it, the Egyptians didn't do it, in fact no one did, except Israel. You better tank the Jews for giving the Palestinians a chance to build their own country because without them they propably ended up as Arabian Romas.
April 10th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
The Palestinians only administer their people, just as the Jewish Councils administered their people in the Ghettos, another totally meaningless Zionazi "factoid". The fact is that Israel is at best regarded by the International community as legally questionable and at worst as an illegally occupied area, the occupiers of which form a pariah state despised and distrusted in all their dealings, their word like that of it's supporters, not being worth the paper it's written on.

You can present your "facts" in pastel colours all dipped in candy coating and rolled in sugar but the fact remains that like the nazis who re wrote their own laws to suit their purposes, Israel is still the worlds worst rogue state regarding Human Rights abuses and outright lies, we needn't even bother about ethic cleansing etc., as in Nazi Germany where persecution of the Jews was 100% legal.

Don't even bother telling us about "legal" anything, to do with this matter, as Israel has been shown to have never abided by any National or International Law, Convention or Ruling of any body other than where it suits their purpose, hence over 200 condemnatory UN resolutions against them.

Nothing you can say or do excuses the Israeli's Nazi like behaviour and that of the US who backs them. To be fair, the US is very slowly realising the error of it's past ways in this regard and more and more we are seeing them falling out of love. No doubt there will come a day when a combination of International moral outrage and common sense on the part of the US will see Israel cut loose.
April 10th, 2013  
D.J
 
Political rights in Palestine were granted to Jews only
The “Mandate for Palestine” clearly differentiates between political rights – referring to Jewish self-determination as an emerging polity – and civil and religious rights, referring to guarantees of equal personal freedoms to non-Jewish residents as individuals and within select communities. Not once are Arabs as a people mentioned in the “Mandate for Palestine.” At no point in the entire document is there any granting of political rights to non-Jewish entities (i.e., Arabs). Article 2 of the “Mandate for Palestine” explicitly states that the Mandatory should:

“... be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.”

Political rights to self-determination as a polity for Arabs were guaranteed by the League of Nations in four other mandates – in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and later Trans-Jordan (today Jordan). International law expert Professor Eugene V. Rostow, examining the claim for Arab Palestinian self-determination on the basis of law, concluded:

“… the mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent ‘natural law’ claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own.”

In the first Report of the High Commissioner on the Administration of Palestine (1920-1925) presented to the British Secretary of State for the Colonies, published in April 1925, the most senior official of the Mandate, the High Commissioner for Palestine, underscored how international guarantees for the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine were achieved:

“The (Balfour) Declaration was endorsed at the time by several of the Allied Governments; it was reaffirmed by the Conference of the Principal Allied Powers at San Remo in 1920; it was subsequently endorsed by unanimous resolutions of both Houses of the Congress of the United States; it was embodied in the Mandate for Palestine approved by the League of Nations in 1922; it was declared, in a formal statement of policy issued by the Colonial Secretary in the same year, ‘not to be susceptible of change.’

Far from the whim of this or that politician or party, eleven successive British governments, Labor and Conservative, from David Lloyd George (1916-1922) through Clement Attlee (1945-1952) viewed themselves as duty-bound to fulfill the “Mandate for Palestine” placed in the hands of Great Britain by the League of Nations.

In 1919, in the wake of World War I, England and France as Mandatory (e.g., official administrators and mentors) carved up the former Ottoman Empire, which had collapsed a year earlier, into geographic spheres of influence. This divided the Mideast into new political entities with new names and frontiers. Territory was divided along map meridians without regard for traditional frontiers (i.e., geographic logic and sustainability) or the ethnic composition of indigenous populations.

The prevailing rationale behind these artificially created states was how they served the imperial and commercial needs of their colonial masters. Iraq and Jordan, for instance, were created as emirates to reward the noble Hashemite family from Saudi Arabia for its loyalty to the British against the Ottoman Turks during World War I, under the leadership of Lawrence of Arabia. Iraq was given to Faisal bin Hussein, son of the sheriff of Mecca, in 1918. To reward his younger brother Abdullah with an emirate, Britain cut away 77 percent of its mandate over Palestine earmarked for the Jews and gave it to Abdullah in 1922, creating the new country of Trans-Jordan or Jordan, as it was later named.

The Arabs’ hatred of the Jewish State has never been strong enough to prevent the bloody rivalries that repeatedly rock the Middle East. These conflicts were evident in the civil wars in Yemen and Lebanon, as well as in the war between Iraq and Iran, in the gassing of countless Kurds in Iraq, and in the killing of Iraqis by Iraqis. The manner in which European colonial powers carved out political entities with little regard to their ethnic composition not only led to this inter-ethnic violence, but it also encouraged dictatorial rule as the only force capable of holding such entities together.

The exception was Palestine, or Eretz-Israel – the territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, where:

“The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country (Palestine) under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish National Home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.”


I have no objections that people are critically or is against state of Israel
Hell, I do not agree with everything my government stands for or does.
But make sure you have the historical facts in order before you set out on
a crusade.
 


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