So why do people hate Israel? - Page 102




 
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October 25th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Of course, you are right and every one else is wrong. You don't know what you are talking about. You have never done it so frankly, you don't know
None of us know at this junction, but what we do know is the past 50 plus years of what has already transpired.

Another major complication of any peace process here, is the sheer number of parties involved, the Refugee countries would have to have a say so, and even other Regional countries have serious interest in these negotiations.

Israel cannot hope to solve this issue while still bombing and raiding regional refugee countries, nor can they even begin any peace process while making plans to strike Lebanon or even raids to upset the stagnation of conflict in Syria.

Israel will not even exit your labeled first stage with such military ambitions on the table.

Better yet, relation will become the talk in the air, not peace talks if Israel continues along this path. And what bothers me the most is watching this shift from the Palestinians plight to regional power shifting, catching them in the cross fire.

The only serious question of what to do with the occupied areas on Israel's mind is such a case is how soon do they need to militarize those zones?

We are not playing a waiting game at current for stage two of any negation process.

We are watching as in the next few short decades, or even sooner we are all marching towards filling the powder keg.

I do hope your process is accurate, however I am very doubtful it will apply here.

If hope even has a place in this world anymore.
October 25th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Of course, you are right and every one else is wrong. You don't know what you are talking about. You have never done it so frankly, you don't know
Well, people have pissed about for 60 years trying solutions upon which your thoughts are based, where the criminals should not have to suffer the indignity of actually having to pay the price of their crimes by being punished, and where has it got us?

Let's just try doing what is morally right for once, y'never know, it might actually work.[/sarcasm]
October 25th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
None of us know at this junction, but what we do know is the past 50 plus years of what has already transpired.

Another major complication of any peace process here, is the sheer number of parties involved, the Refugee countries would have to have a say so, and even other Regional countries have serious interest in these negotiations.

Israel cannot hope to solve this issue while still bombing and raiding regional refugee countries, nor can they even begin any peace process while making plans to strike Lebanon or even raids to upset the stagnation of conflict in Syria.

Israel will not even exit your labeled first stage with such military ambitions on the table.

Better yet, relation will become the talk in the air, not peace talks if Israel continues along this path. And what bothers me the most is watching this shift from the Palestinians plight to regional power shifting, catching them in the cross fire.

The only serious question of what to do with the occupied areas on Israel's mind is such a case is how soon do they need to militarize those zones?

We are not playing a waiting game at current for stage two of any negation process.

We are watching as in the next few short decades, or even sooner we are all marching towards filling the powder keg.

I do hope your process is accurate, however I am very doubtful it will apply here.

If hope even has a place in this world anymore.

When Israel realizes to use violence only create more violence. But with the nutcase of PM in Israel who said "There is no humanitarian disaster in Gaza", which is the most urgent problem to solve. I would be happy to see him in Hague, but if we want him to change his attitude and begin negotiations, nobody can say that to him. Every peace process must be designed for every single situation. What I described is more or less a guideline for what to do and what not to do. The teams of negotiators are often focusing to solve one problem; another team is focusing on another problem etc
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October 25th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
When Israel realizes to use violence only create more violence. But with the nutcase of PM in Israel who said "There is no humanitarian disaster in Gaza", which is the most urgent problem to solve. I would be happy to see him in Hague, but if we want him to change his attitude and begin negotiations, nobody can say that to him. Every peace process must be designed for every single situation. What I described is more or less a guideline for what to do and what not to do. The teams of negotiators are often focusing to solve one problem; another team is focusing on another problem etc
When realistate shopping in Gaza , a more suitable home is not to far from the nearest road checkpoint, close to the sea, and with minimal tank shell damage, or little white phosphorus scaring to the roof, then you have yourself a good home.

When living here is forced to these conditions for decades. Then the prospect of bridging any impasse here moves from a humanitarian one to a military one.

That is the very very serious danger we risk running as time goes by here. The more nations show keen security interest in the situation can either expedite, which is unlikely, or greatly compromise any peace process.

If Israel is seen as a threat, then negotiating assimilation in the future becomes impossible. If Israel can prove they can be "trusted' to some extend then it would be other wise, but each passing day and unprovoked military strike then this become less and less of a reality.
October 25th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Well, people have pissed about for 60 years trying solutions upon which your thoughts are based, where the criminals should not have to suffer the indignity of actually having to pay the price of their crimes by being punished, and where has it got us?

Let's just try doing what is morally right for once, y'never know, it might actually work.[/sarcasm]

If you are in the process to get people to reach an agreement, you cannot have atrocities there, they will never participate. All peace agreements all over the world have a dark side and the morals and the justice must be ignored to reach an agreement. What happens later, when they are hopefully replaced by others. That's the moment for justice and they will pay for it, but never prior or during a peace process.
October 25th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
If you are in the process to get people to reach an agreement, you cannot have atrocities there, they will never participate. All peace agreements all over the world have a dark side and the morals and the justice must be ignored to reach an agreement. What happens later, when they are hopefully replaced by others. That's the moment for justice and they will pay for it, but never prior or during a peace process.
I never mentioned agreement, you did, and if you think you can get agreement without justice, you are not trying to solve the problem,.. you are the problem.

Start with justice and the problem will solve itself.
October 25th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I never mentioned agreement, you did, and if you think you can get agreement without justice, you are not trying to solve the problem,.. you are the problem.

Start with justice and the problem will solve itself.
Israel and Palestinians cannot solve their problems without negotiations; you have no clue what you are talking about. If we want both to live in peace, they need to negotiate. You can suggest your approach to the Israelis and they will not be interested, they will not be there, the Palestinians responsible for atrocities will not be there either and you have achieved nothing. If you are thinking about justice, it will be there later. Your approach is a conflict continuation

October 25th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Israel and Palestinians cannot solve their problems without negotiations; you have no clue what you are talking about. If we want both to live in peace, they need to negotiate. You can suggest your approach to the Israelis and they will not be interested, they will not be there, the Palestinians responsible for atrocities will not be there either and you have achieved nothing. If you are thinking about justice, it will be there later. Your approach is a conflict continuation
No,... the conflict is "continuing" at the moment whilst people like you try to reach your imaginary "agreement without justice". Your answer to this problem is based on ignorance and racist arrogance, what you fail to realise is that the Palestinians are not the ignorant uneducated sand jockeys you think they are, they are fully aware that they have right and justice on their side and that the Israelis don't have a single leg to stand on. They will not accept less than they are entitled to, and neither they should.

You wouldn't accept it if it were your country occupied by murdering foreigners who treated your people like animals, why should the Palestinians? Or would you,.....
October 26th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
No,... the conflict is "continuing" at the moment whilst people like you try to reach your imaginary "agreement without justice". Your answer to this problem is based on ignorance and racist arrogance, what you fail to realise is that the Palestinians are not the ignorant uneducated sand jockeys you think they are, they are fully aware that they have right and justice on their side and that the Israelis don't have a single leg to stand on. They will not accept less than they are entitled to, and neither they should.

You wouldn't accept it if it were your country occupied by murdering foreigners who treated your people like animals, why should the Palestinians? Or would you,.....
How many conflict resolutions have you participated in? The Palestinians are not uneducated, but you are.
October 26th, 2012  
ScarabVenom
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
How are they supposed to reach this without solving the humanitarian disaster in Gaza, the Israeli settlements on occupied land, the access to fresh water, how are they supposed to begin to trust each other, the problem with the refugees? If the idea of one land instead of two had been implemented back in 1948 it might had worked, but it is not like that now.
Hopefully, this gets reached by outsiders. Something like the UN. They recognize Palestinians as the real land owners, assign multinational forces to protect the rights of the Palestinians.
 


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