So Many US Military Bases... Why?

R

RayManKiller3

Active member
Okay, to start off, I dont want people on here with crazy theories of US taking over the world. I am sure many won't though.

Found this on a site named http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1341066
860 military bases in foreign countries as of 2004, and 3842 within our own borders, 4702 total.


Okay, I know of the reasons or some of the reasons the US have so many bases in overseas countries, but I would like to know if it is worth the strain on the US economy.

I will give three basic reasons quite known to people for both sides.

Reasons for US bases to the US:
1. provide stability to the nation hosting the military base
2. Faster deployment options
3. For intel on how that country is doing or what they are doing (IMO)


Reasons for US bases to the Hosting country:
1. Provides protection and stabilize
2. Provides income for the land being "leased" if not permanent
3. basically economic gain for the country like jobs.

Okay, I could not find how much these overseas bases cost to maintain and what good its doing for the US economy if it has any plus side to the US economy.

Here comes my first two questions. Why do the US have so many military bases which puts economic strains on the US when it already has the most powerful Navy sailing the blue seas? I know it will be shorter response time with the bases, but the cost overall would be greater than the cost of sending them to that said country right?

I think it would be best economically to keep these installations at a minimum. The use of these bases on US soil would be a great way to stabalize the US economy.

The US have a 600 billion to 800 (if not more) billion budget to the military and it increases every year. Something is going to have to give, the Budget of the military or the economy.

If anyone know any other reasons why the US have so many overseas military bases and how it benefits the US, then feel free to shoot :)

I ask because, I am not sure if decreasing these bases would harm something, but yet I believe that it dont give enough benefits. I think these military bases should ONLY be installed if the country is under threat or it holds some real deal intrest to the US.

Your opinions:?:
 
A guy who worked for the State Dept. wrote a book about the US Empire and how it "negotiates" for lower costs for US interests in a country. The first step is threats of embargos etc. The next step is to have the CIA fund and organise a Coup. the third is to demonise the country through the US Corporate Media and then threaten invasion. If you think these bases and a military budget more than all countries in the world combined are for defence you are very naive.
 
koalaburger said:
A guy who worked for the State Dept. wrote a book about the US Empire and how it "negotiates" for lower costs for US interests in a country. The first step is threats of embargos etc. The next step is to have the CIA fund and organise a Coup. the third is to demonise the country through the US Corporate Media and then threaten invasion. If you think these bases and a military budget more than all countries in the world combined are for defence you are very naive.
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That is quite silly. The fact that officials are elected make it hard to say the US is forcing the countries to build these bases; surely one president or such will have different views and slow down or stop it.

MOST of the military bases were made during or after the Cold war, which most countries feared a Russian invasion, therefore asked or was gladly accepting US to buy or rent the land. Also you trying to say the US, forced allied nations to accept it (that is where most of the bases are located)?

I know the CIA is famous for coup attempts and such, but what evidence do this guy have? Any links?

The military budget have a lot to do with maintenance. I will figure out the percentage of what group the budget goes to when I can.



You however didnt answer my questions:

Is the cash being put into the military bases worth it?
Is there any other major benefit it has to the US that I may be missing?
 
koalaburger said:
A guy who worked for the State Dept. wrote a book about the US Empire and how it "negotiates" for lower costs for US interests in a country. The first step is threats of embargos etc. The next step is to have the CIA fund and organise a Coup. the third is to demonise the country through the US Corporate Media and then threaten invasion. If you think these bases and a military budget more than all countries in the world combined are for defence you are very naive.
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This, yeah not so much , but the tin foil companies are certainly glad you believe it.

Why not post the title and author of the book?


RayManKiller3 said:
That is quite silly. The fact that officials are elected make it hard to say the US is forcing the countries to build these bases; surely one president or such will have different views and slow down or stop it.

MOST of the military bases were made during or after the Cold war, which most countries feared a Russian invasion, therefore asked or was gladly accepting US to buy or rent the land. Also you trying to say the US, forced allied nations to accept it (that is where most of the bases are located)?

I know the CIA is famous for coup attempts and such, but what evidence do this guy have? Any links?

The military budget have a lot to do with maintenance. I will figure out the percentage of what group the budget goes to when I can.



You however didnt answer my questions:

Is the cash being put into the military bases worth it?
Is there any other major benefit it has to the US that I may be missing?
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This more on point and in touch with the reality of the Post WWII era when most of the bases were established.
 
You called me a POS last time USMC because I dared say your country kills 24,000 of its own citizens because of rubbish health care. I found the study and it actually said 43,000, and I provided the link. You suddenly went quiet. The "School of the Americas" which has had a name change, but is still teaching Central and South American countries militaries about torture and coups is really a terrorist training school. Guess where the leaders of the Honduras military trained. There are so many examples of America pillaging the world you just have to turn off FOX long enough to search for it on the internet. I notice on US TV they ask "why does the rest of the world hate us." It is because we know you are the bully on the block because our media actually supply news rather than propaganda. So USMC it is time for you to call me names again because the facts certainly are not on your side. Try googling "American Empire".The book is Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.
http:www.johnperkins.org
 
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Google can be your friend, but it also has it's flaws. When you type in "American empire" you will get more than just a few sites that could be credible, you'll also get a lot of sites that never will be.

Next time you start spouting off, try verifying it. Show us the links.

As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust your sources, but verify."
 
koalaburger said:
You called me a POS last time USMC because I dared say your country kills 24,000 of its own citizens because of rubbish health care.
Post your source that , that many people are "killed".

I found the study and it actually said 43,000, and I provided the link. You suddenly went quiet. The "School of the Americas" which has had a name change, but is still teaching Central and South American countries militaries about torture and coups is really a terrorist training school.
Which "School of the Armericas" the one in Panama, which is being turned into a hotel complex and has been in disuse since 1990? or the FMOTU concern in CONUS?

Guess where the leaders of the Honduras military trained.
Don't have to I already know, and have the sylibus.

There are so many examples of America pillaging the world you just have to turn off FOX long enough to search for it on the internet.
I don't watch FOX much. Generally I get my news from the BBC, Univision, Telemundo and SUR. US news is entertaiment I watch it if I want a Giggle, or I read your posts.
I notice on US TV they ask "why does the rest of the world hate us." It is because we know you are the bully on the block because our media actually supply news rather than propoganda.
See Above, and go take a couple deep breathes.
So USMC it is time for you to call me names again because the facts certainly are not on your side. Try googling "American Empire"

No you are making a 4th POC outta yourself without help from me.

American Empire in the terms that you are trying to pawn it off in has already been debunked, it spweaks to other situations and circumstance, not that of long standing Military posts in allied countries.
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Embedded. BTW how did work for State and have access to anything if your not a US citizen?
 
Personally I don't mind this "American Empire" because regardless of flaws or whatnot, Americans at least value the words "freedom" and "liberty." They might not know what it is, but the fact that they value it means that it will be very tricky for the US government to justify any action that oppresses people abroad. The fact that these words are valued puts them on a different plane of morality than the alternatives (China, Russia for example). When America does something contrary to these beliefs, we call it a major screwup and a crime. When the alternative powers act contrary to these beliefs, it's just another day in the office.
 
Of the bases in the US roughly 30% are actually fully functional bases.

The others are mostly post WWII bases that are kept open for logistcal, medical or other support. Others such as the ones in ROK are kept open and functional in the face of a real threat.

Better you search for a regional reason that bases exist.
 
Unfortunately, what I was reading must have been outdated material. I seem to be having trouble finding any information about the bases that isnt in 2004...

http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=49554&s2=13

This seems to be the most up-to-date information I was able to find.

Ah, so each base might have a specific reason? I see, thats a lot of read to figure that out, not counting secret military bases the US have.

I think they should cut some bases loose, which seem to be what President Bush proposed to Congress. 40,000 troops suppose to be in US by 2012 coming from europe bases according to this source.

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RS21975.pdf

I assumed most bases in Europe was mainly for faster projection (other than Germany). It will take awhile to figure out region reasons for each or most of the bases.

But, Lets just assume that the bases are for faster projection alone. Do you guys think the price of maintaining it for years is worth it? Don't it seem more cheaper to sail them across to their destination? I would think it is cheaper long-term since its only paying to get them across and back, but I am not sure how much it cost to mobile US forces across the oceans. I know it would be expensive to do that, but how much less or more expensive then leaving thousands of troops overseas for years and nothing happening?

Also it says we got troops in 150 countries! That have to mean at least 150 bases are operational. Do you guys think leaving the overseas territory will heighten chances of a conflict?
 
RayManKiller3 said:
Unfortunately, what I was reading must have been outdated material.
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More than likely.

RayManKiller3 said:
Also it says we got troops in 150 countries! That have to mean at least 150 bases are operational.
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Not so. You can have troops there and their "base" can be located in another country.

RayManKiller3 said:
Do you guys think leaving the overseas territory will heighten chances of a conflict?
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Does it matter what "us guys" think, or does it matter what the upper echelon knows?

Something that really pisses me off is how so many people question what the military does, then they ridicule the military, yet they fail to realize that the military has far more accurate and greatly more detailed information on the situation than any non-prior-service-civilian can realize. They ain't gonna go bomb a country on a whim. They won't takes lives "just because".

And just because you get your intel from the internet does not mean it's true.
 
Hmmm said:
Does it matter what "us guys" think, or does it matter what the upper echelon knows?

Something that really pisses me off is how so many people question what the military does, then they ridicule the military, yet they fail to realize that the military has far more accurate and greatly more detailed information on the situation than any non-prior-service-civilian can realize. They ain't gonna go bomb a country on a whim. They won't takes lives "just because".

And just because you get your intel from the internet does not mean it's true.
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Yes, it matters what we guys think, especially the US citizens who pay for these stuff. We don't know if it is benefiting us more than it is harming us.

56% percent of the WHOLE US budget goes to the military! Seems to me we can due a little less than that. NATO is pretty much a military powerhouse and not many, if any country can stand up to it, which makes me question why so much is put in this field.

Everyone knows that a country with too big of a military will fall economically (like Rome). Considering the economic crisis, I think that we are probably overduing it a little.

The military bases like I said, presents jobs and strengthen the economy of the country it is in. Instead of buying things in US, they are paying for stuff in another country and the maintenance jobs can be helpful for the US job struggle.


Dude, its a democracy, questioning the government IS what a democracy is about. It lets the people know that they aren't being taken advantage of considering it is the PEOPLE who gives the money for this funding. I am not ridiculing though. Basically I am trying to figure this specific matter of is the base worth the salt it brings when it is overseas. I can understand bases that hold a strategic value (holding oil platforms and countries with it) and other such.
 
Go back and read up on the Manhattan Project and the Oak Ridge Project. What if that was open public knowledge?

BTW America is not a democracy, it's a republic. Yes, you really need to read up on history.
 
Hmmm said:
Go back and read up on the Manhattan Project and the Oak Ridge Project. What if that was open public knowledge?

BTW America is not a democracy, it's a republic. Yes, you really need to read up on history.
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There is a difference between secret and public. Note I didn't include bases that was secret to the main public such as CIA bases otherwise it will be well over 1000 bases in foreign territory. The ones in the note stated are well-known bases to the public who bothers to look it up.

I know it is technically a Republic. The popular usage people use is Democracy even if the government is technically a Republic

http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html
By popular usage, however, the word "democracy" come to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power.


Whichever system it uses, it still matters as the people are still the ones in both governments who have to carry the burden of paying for the military. As citizens we want to make sure this spending isn't "wasteful" and serve our interest well.

History in what field, "Hmmm"? History can be a wide-variety and since your saying I need to read more, you must find something wrong in what I am asking or stating.
 
45,000 is the heading in the Political section re needless US deaths. Just google WHINSEC to get information on the old School of the Americas at Fort Benning. A constant protest is happening there and 2 activists just got 6 months in a federal jail. There could be piles of naked men being tortured in a US run jail or a massacre in a Vietnam village and you would still say the US can do no wrong. It is all irrelevant anyway as your empire is imploding through greed like all the rest have. Sadly, Americans are mostly very nice people, just like Iraqis and Afghanis, but your ruling elite has ulterior motives that have nothing to do with the well being of their countrymen. I hope when you guys on active service return to the states with PTSD and other injuries your country is there for you.
 
Koalaburger, I have to say that your repeated allegations against Americans here in IMF is very unappreciated. Your views are tainted.

Lots of people protest. It is their right. Until it gets out of hand. And yes sometimes the out of hand part is staged. It happens here and it happens elsewhere.

No one here ever said that America can do no wrong.
 
koalaburger said:
45,000 is the heading in the Political section re needless US deaths. Just google WHINSEC to get information on the old School of the Americas at Fort Benning. A constant protest is happening there and 2 activists just got 6 months in a federal jail. There could be piles of naked men being tortured in a US run jail or a massacre in a Vietnam village and you would still say the US can do no wrong. It is all irrelevant anyway as your empire is imploding through greed like all the rest have. Sadly, Americans are mostly very nice people, just like Iraqis and Afghanis, but your ruling elite has ulterior motives that have nothing to do with the well being of their countrymen. I hope when you guys on active service return to the states with PTSD and other injuries your country is there for you.
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what in the world are you talking about? This isn't about any "empire" like I told you, I didn't want to hear such stupidity as we Americans can't care less about controlling the world. Americans only want the benefit and to power off of America (United states is what I am referring to). Unfortunately the government that is elected to secret stuff and may not be all right and most of the time it is against the people's wishes.

You bought up nothing to the thread, are you saying the bases are for torturing and other evil deeds? I was mainly asking do the bases bring anything that contribute to the United States more than it loses having to maintain it.
 
I think a couple of things should be noted here...

a) In supporting Koalaburger's POV, an "Empire" doesn't have to be political. It can be social, cultural or economic. Indeed the British Empire was just as much an Economic and Cultural an Empire as it was political, if not more so.

b) to counter Koalaburger's POV, any serious historian who studies the relationship between Coloniser and Colonised, Empire and 'Vassal', knows that the group being 'dominated' often ends up with a range of positive effects benefitting their society, as much as there are also negative side effects. No-one likes to admit it, but there are some decided benefits to being the victim of force projection. Just ask the Indians. 60 years after independance and thanks to Queen Victoria, they're ready to be the next superpower....

c) Before anyone goes making stupid uninformed comments about the relationship between soldier and state, and all that that contract entails, I suggest they read "The Soldier: A History of Courage, Sacrifice and Brotherhood" by MAJ Darren Moore, Australian Army (Retired); the book very thoroughly discusses the relationship between the soldier and the state they serve, takes no political side and paints no picture of servicemen/women as angels. It does however raise several poignant issues which those who take the moral highground in judging the morality of servicemen/women choose to conveniently overlook or ignore. I've bought a copy so my family understand why I do what I do. I suggest any serviceperson interested read it, and EVERY civilian should read it - bar none.

Oh and for the record, as far as all conquering hegemonous (spelling) empires go, there's been far worse than America.

How about we cut our Allies and their Service-people some slack. They stand for (by and large) liberal values, tolerance and freedoms. Sure, they'll look after their own interests when push comes to shove. Koalaburger, maybe you can name me a country that doesn't and instead places altruism above all else??

That's right... there isn't one. Going into the 21st century there are any number of countries which could be force-projecting their way into world dominance - India, the PRC, a resurgent Russia... All of these countries (America included) have their issues... name me one country (including ours mate) which doesn't have issues.... I think for anyone to be taking the moral highground in global politics is a bit frakkin stupid. If you like, I can detail a large list of our country's crimes to assuage your moral outrage.

.....


Or you could just come down from your soapbox, stop being an arrogant w@nker and join the rest of us mere mortals here at ground level....
 
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