Smoothbore vs Rifling - Page 2




 
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October 3rd, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
There should be some means of testing to two concepts. Surely one will be more accurate over a longer distance than the other, correct?
October 4th, 2004  
Kozzy Mozzy
 
The Challenger rifle is the best main tank gun in the world. Spin stabilized rounds are inherently more accurate then fin stabilized ones, the lack of fins on the round mean it goes faster, and the gun can fire HESH, a great infantry support shell.

Too bad rifled tank guns are extremely expensive, as the rifling needs to be well made. They don't last long, the rifling wears out really fast. That's why the Brits were looking to go smoothbore, but didn't for some reason.
October 4th, 2004  
SHERMAN
 
 
Ive talked about this with a very experienced armor core officer. he told me that this discusion is very old and dates back to the first 120mm...However, I would consider the fact that most armies prefer the smooth-bore to the rifling as some sort of a conclusin. The fact that the brits are now searching for a smooth bore is also a good indicator that the smooth bore is probably superior.
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October 4th, 2004  
Kozzy Mozzy
 
The reason the British *were* switching to smoothbore is totally cost related. Rifled guns are expensive, the ammo is expensive, and they both are not NATO compatible. The Brits aren't switching to smoothbore anymore, they retaining their rifled guns.
October 4th, 2004  
doddsy2978
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kozzy Mozzy
The reason the British *were* switching to smoothbore is totally cost related. Rifled guns are expensive, the ammo is expensive, and they both are not NATO compatible. The Brits aren't switching to smoothbore anymore, they retaining their rifled guns.
Ya see! This is where I was fooled . Normally it would take at least twenty year for them to effect a 'U-turn'. I knew that I had been taught and seen this stuff in the late 80's/early 90's. Sorry for bein' outa date
October 4th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Well, seems to me that a 120mm rifled barrel is a potential problem as it has a good chance of wearing out in the middle of extended combat. Significantly greater chance than a smoothbore. That could make it a pretty big liability in exchange for any advantage that it provides.
October 4th, 2004  
Kozzy Mozzy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Well, seems to me that a 120mm rifled barrel is a potential problem as it has a good chance of wearing out in the middle of extended combat. Significantly greater chance than a smoothbore. That could make it a pretty big liability in exchange for any advantage that it provides.
I'm pretty sure the Brits make sure their guns are in top notch condition before going into combat.
October 5th, 2004  
doddsy2978
 
Certainly do! Or -- did
October 25th, 2004  
jamesthegren
 
The only reason the British MoD was considering switching to a smoothbore gun was financial.

Modern MBT ammunition is reaching the end of it's life and it is time to start developing the next generation. This costs money. The smoothbore gun operators mainly Germany and the US will join together to split the development costs. Britain however would have to develop a next gen rifled round on it's own, and with the end of the Cold War the MoD can't afford too. Also British ammo is not NATO standard so that is an added incentive to change.

The British Army still consider the rifled 52cal 120mm the best MBT gun in the world. The M1A2 and Merkava both use shorter 44cal guns, and while the Leo2A6 uses a 52cal they don't use DU ammo like the Challenger.

Side Note: One of the main reasons why the Challenger 2 came bottom in trials for the Greek Army, is because of the non-NATO standard gun, which automatically ruled it out of contention.
November 1st, 2004  
The thin Red Line
 
Quick note about rifle via smoothbore.

The reason most Nations go for smoothbore is that sabot and heat rounds work better when no spin is placed on them ( the French had a heat round with ball racers so the shape charge wounldn't be spinning when fired from their 105mm rifled cannon.)

The reason Uk forces have had a rifled gun is because of better range and hit probablity with normal high explosive rounds. In WW2 75% of all rounds fired were high Ex not anti tank. Thats why their kept normal 75mm gun shermans and not all 17pdr firflys.

UK had a 140mm rifle planned to replace the charm3 L30 gun. But this is not due untill the next tank. So they are looking a replacing the rifle with smooth bore due to better performance anti tank and cost of the rounds.

Final note in Gulf War 1 the UK tanks stopped using sabot rounds because they could hit and destroy the Iraq tank at 4km + with their old hesh rounds, far out ranging their sabot round.