I smell Iran in this

R

rock45

Active member
If you think about it what would Lebanon want with (10) twin engine aviation fuel eating Mig-29 fighters for, if Iran wasn't in involved? Couldn't Russia give them something more useful then Mig-29 cast offs? If they were allowed to survive and not become targets I see Iranian AF personnel and Iranian mercenary pilots waiting to get to the promise land. There is hundreds of millions of dollars needed in start up money alone for a crazy venture like this.


Russia to 'donate' 10 MiG-29 jet fighters to Lebanon


16:59 | 16/ 12/ 2008
MOSCOW, December 16 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will supply Lebanon with 10 MiG-29 Fulcrum fighters, Lebanese Defense Minister Elias Murr said on Tuesday after a meeting with his Russian counterpart, Anatoly Serdyukov.
Serdyukov said Moscow had received a weapons procurement list from the Lebanese armed forces which would be considered in the near future.
He added that the fighter deliveries would provide a fresh impetus to military cooperation between the two countries.
A member of the Lebanese delegation said the aircraft would be provided "as aid."
According to inside sources privy to the deal, the warplanes "will be sold at a hefty discount."
Media reports say the Lebanese Air Force is in a deplorable state with virtually no airworthy planes.
Currently the Air Force is equipped with Bell UH-1 Iroquois combat helicopters, developed back in the 1950s, and Robinson R44 Raven II civilian helicopters, all of which were supplied by the United States.
In 2007, Beirut took delivery of nine SA342L Gazelle helicopters from the

Link
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081216/118886270.html
 
Good find Rock. Very interesting news, especially the fact that the figthers are to be sold at a very discounted price. Like veryone else, Russia is in the arms market to make money. Why sell discounted, when Lebanon desperately needs what you have to offer? Economics 101 dictates prices normally rise when demand for goods rises. Unless, as you have suggested, there's an Iranian involvement or Russia is expecting to make a lot more money with additional sales, spare parts, supprt, training, etc... Or they're simply into enlarging/reaffirming their sphere of influence.
 
Can I get 10 Mig-29's?

If I recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia can I get 10 free Mig-29's too? I found this little article. For the price of one Mig-29 you could buy hundreds gas generators for making electric, medical supplies, food, and tons of fuel. Couldn't Russia donate these items instead of costly Fulcrum cast offs? I don't get this and could cause more killing over who controls them. Besides if there not vowed to be used against Israel aren't they just going to get blown up anyway?

Lebanon could recognize S.Ossetia, Abkhazia - paper


MOSCOW, November 10 (RIA Novosti) - Lebanon wants to establish contacts with South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and may consider recognizing the two Georgian separatist republics as independent, Russian daily Vremya Novostei reported on Monday.
Russia recognized the republics as independent after its brief war with Georgia, which attacked South Ossetia on August 8. Nicaragua is so far the only other country to have recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
The paper quoted Saad Hariri, leader of the Lebanese parliamentary majority Future Movement, as saying: "The recognition issue will be decided at the top level of government. We are about to start establishing contacts with South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Delegations of our businessmen will soon be sent there."
At a meeting with Hariri last Friday, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin pledged Moscow's economic and political assistance to Beirut.
Hariri told the paper that supplies of military hardware had been discussed, and would be considered in detail during a visit to Russia by Lebanese Defense Minister Elias Murr in November or early December.

Link
http://en.rian.ru/world/20081110/118219729.html


A 2nd article I found
Lebanon to Get Russian Gift of 10 Mig-29s

Posted by Christina Mackenzie at 12/19/2008 1:15 PM CST
Lebanon is to get 10 second-hand Mig-29s as a gift from Moscow “as a form of military and technical assistance”, according to French press agency AFP which quotes Mikhail Dmitriyev, director of Russia's Federal Military and Technical Cooperation Service. “The Russian defense ministry has decided to supply 10 of its Mig-29 fighters to Lebanon,” he said, adding that “technical and military assistance is assistance paid for by the budget.” No date for delivery of the aircraft was given but when they arrive it will make a quantum leap for Lebanon's air force which currently has five Hawker Hunter jets and 16 helicopters, according to the Moscow Times.
The announcement came after Lebanon's defense minister, Elias Murr, held talks earlier this week with his Russian counterpart, Anatoly Serdyukov, in Moscow to discuss a detailed list of equipment needed by Lebanon's armed forces.
Earlier this month all the Russian Air Force's Mig-29s were grounded after two crashes in three months.

Link
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blog...&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
 
They arrew flying alot of junk in the lebaneses air force. a mig 29 is a step up. however, 10 mig-29 against the two main likely agressors(israel and syria), are going to survive for about 20 minutes. Lebanese are getting alls sorts of gifts that keep taking lately(40 or so Leopard 1 tanks from belgium, for instance).
 
I guess the MiG-29's arent in good condition.

The MiG-29 is a pretty good aircraft when its modernised, though.

But i prefer the Su-27 over the MiG.
 
Mig

Hi Balkan-MiG
Very few have been modernized that's the problem the aircraft itself is a great turner and can climb faster then a F-15C, good thrust. It's just the cockpit layout too many tasks for the pilot to carry out, average radar-I'm being kind, smoky engines helps your enemy see you better, short range. Basically Russia hasn't done much with this classic fighter since the early 90s.

On paper the Mig-29M/K look good but since none have went into production its difficult to know or judge their capabilities. India's Mig-29k ordered in 2004 (16/18) are still not delivered, never mind the make believe options.

The famous Mig35 is really a Mig-29M, I think 9.47 version with Mig-35 painted on.

I like both Mig-29 and Su-30 better version of the Russian Su-27, but the two are in very different weight and size classes, Su-27/30 are larger then F-14. To give you an example the Flanker tail fin is almost the size of a Fulcrum wing.

MIG isn't do to well and even after India long drawn out 126 fighter bid I think 9 years now and still going they couldn't get a finsihed aircraft produced. To me they blew a huge inside track they held over the others.
 
Last edited:
The Serbian MiG-29's are getting modernised in Russia, and the first few have been returened and are performing excellently.

Thing is with the Russian style of making aircraft, they make one [Su-27 for Sukhoi and MiG-29 for Mikoyan], then the next aircraft they make are versions of the original, but better/different role.

For example, the Su-30 is based on the Su-27, and the Su-34 is based on the Su-27/30 aswell, but its a bomber/fighter [Much like the F-15].

But in a few years time, they will both be replaced [Possibly by the Sukhoi PAK-FA and MiG-1.44]
 
Russian Production

Balkan-MiG
Thing is with the Russian style of making aircraft, they make one [Su-27 for Sukhoi and MiG-29 for Mikoyan], then the next aircraft they make are versions of the original, but better/different role.
Click to expand...
But that still doesn't explain their lack of real production and setup production lines, filled with skilled workers?

Please don't take offense but when you say Serbs returned Mig-29s are performing excellently compared to what? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Serb upgrades were more on the lines of a badly needed deep overhaul? They were not brought up to SMT standards so basically you have a repaired Fulcrum on A/C/SE levels.

Not that's a bad thing and I'm sure money was an issue to what was repaired and what could be bought. Keeping a few frames flying gets pilots the hours they need and keeps a number of other key personnel active, still important.

I'm sure Serb did the best they could do with the money they had.
icon14.gif
 
The reason for low production now is because they just started production on most of the aircraft [Su-35, 34 etc]

The MiG's were sent to Russia for modernisation so it could compete to a required standard [Albania, for example. Though they have no fixed winged aircraft and only military aviation they have is 5-10 helicopters].

The Serbian army/airforce is undergoing large modernization now. The G-4 Super Galebs [Made in Yugoslavia in the seventies] are going modernisation, and the Serbian air force [Or head of airforce, cant remember] says that they will be in service untill 2020-2030.

Thats around 60-80 modernised G-4 Super Galebs, which should be a fair enough match against anything most of our neighbours [Albania, Hungary, Croatia, Bosnia and such] can offer.

I dont know if they already have, but i doubt it, but we could do with new aircraft [Maybe buy around 10-12 Su-30's from India/Russia or Su-27's, and a dozen Hind attack helicopters would be good to control airspace near the Kosovo border.]. Not sure if there would be enough money for them after modernisation, but still, the modernisation will get us pretty far.

Also, a bit of an off topic question, do purchasing Anti-Aircraft missiles [Such as the S-300] come from the Air force budget or ground forces budget?
 
ROFL
so, it's Iran now and not the communistic Empire of evil aka Russia anymore?
Why would a country, with a military that is rather a better Policeforce right now, want Jetfighters? Maybe it has something to do with a certain Neighbour invading it from time to time? Why would the russians "donate" these fighters or sell them for a dumping price? Could it be they have more in stock than they need right now? (thats how we (Germany) got rid of the NVA and Bundeswehr Hardware we didn't need anymore. Or maybe its some sort of Promotion to sell some more to outher countries in the middle east? Actually, it's not an uncommon practise, american companies do it as well, or, another example, Israel just got 2 Class 214 Submariens from germany for free.
 
Bad form Cisco to enter a forum and attack the post of a man who contributed much to this community you have recently joined and a man who recently passed away.
 
I agree with Cisco. Its all very horrible that Rock has passed away, but it doesnt stop other people from voicing their opinion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top