Sights or Point Shooting in CQB Situations - Page 6




 
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August 9th, 2010  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5shot
Hi Guys,

Put together a simple video about the slide stop pin problem.

If you plan to use a 1911 for self defense, you may want to take a look at it. You can file it under: you can take a horse to water, but you can't make em drink.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-WhOCoQfjw




=
Show me a video of the 1911 malfuctioning because of the pressure on the slide stop/take down high speed. That was all a rehash of your same old unsupported mental masturbation. Having fired 100,s of thousands of rounds from 1911 using indexing and never putting a slide out of function doing so, let me reinterate.............you're full of it.

If thats the best you can do at 15 and 10 yards with S&W MP's you need to get away from side arms or did you shoot those targets with a Shot Gun? Christ thats shabby. Nice touch with the airsoft gun at the beginning of the video though (Ghey).
December 21st, 2010  
todd8541
 
if you stop to aim at 5 or less yards your probably dead. Secondly I was trained to shoot to kill not to make someone not a threat. The only way I will consider someone not a threat in combat is if hes dead. I've seen first hand and had my father (also a marine) tell me about wounded men continuing to fire even when on the ground during vietnam. If he aint dead hes a threat. '
February 6th, 2011  
5shot
 
 
Low-tec aiming aid 4 fast, automatic, and accurate aiming
at close quarters.

My latest video.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLrJBYSYsok"]YouTube - Aiming Aid For Fast, Automatic, & Accurate Aiming[/ame]

The aiming aid is patented, but individuals are welcome to add one to their personal gun/s at their own risk and expense. I have the patent, so I can say that. US 6023874

Ditto for Police Agencies.

http://www.pointshooting.com/1ahowto.htm
A link to info on how to do that.

Best regards for 2010...........
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February 8th, 2011  
5.56X45mm
 
 

Topic: Okay, I just went through six pages of worthlessness


If some folks here want to get a good idea of serious pistol, rifle, and shotgun craft.

Take a Magpul Course, Go through a couple of courses at Gunsite, and maybe a Larry Vickers course or two.


Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Tactical Carbine


Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Tactical Carbine - Volume 2


Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Dynamic Handgun


Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Dynamic Shotgun
February 12th, 2011  
5shot
 
 

Topic: !


Here's a link to the Detroit Police shooting. It shows what reality is.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at2LfqrYbhw"]YouTube - Detroit Police: Attack Video Shows 'Heroism'[/ame]

Per the literature and stats, if you are going to be shot or killed there is an 80% chance that it will be at less than 20 feet.

Also in an extensive study of Police Combat (the NYPDs SOP9), officers with few exceptions fired with the strong hand.

I think one should train for what is, not what may be.

Also, my focus is on defensive shooting for your average home defender or gun owner, not military assault tactics using a pistol, which I think would be stupid at best and suicidal at worst.

When I was in the army I carried an M1 rifle, M1 carbine, and a grease gun at various times. No pistol.
February 12th, 2011  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm
If some folks here want to get a good idea of serious pistol, rifle, and shotgun craft.

Take a Magpul Course, Go through a couple of courses at Gunsite, and maybe a Larry Vickers course or two.


Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Tactical Carbine


Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Tactical Carbine - Volume 2


Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Dynamic Handgun


Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Dynamic Shotgun
Damn it man Costa doesn't even gorilla glue a piece of tin with an angle on his pistol frame! How can that be training?

BTW 5shot your being talked about like a two dollar hootchie on most reputable gun boards,

As far as reality, I'm going with Larry Vickers reality over yours.
February 18th, 2011  
Ted
 
 
What are these guys training for? Is this just to enhance their skill of 'self-defense'. Or is this sport shooting... To my untrained eye, this seems like some overzealous gun-lovers getting ready to get shipped over to Afghanistan.
March 1st, 2012  
5shot
 
 

Topic: Flying Saucers, Sight Shooting, and Self Defense


FLYING SAUCERS, SIGHT SHOOTING, AND SELF DEFENSE

[This article was written in 2000. What was true then, is still true in 2012.]

If you have a handgun at home, you probably bought it with the thought in mind that you could use it for self defense. And, you probably have been trained to use one or both sights for aiming and shooting it.

Well, if you think you will be able to use your handgun and training in a real self defense situation, you could be dead wrong.

Darrell Mulroy, a trainer and one of the owners of Plus P Technologies in Minneapolis, MN, [Darrell died in 2003] made a review of 900+ videos of real shootings. He found that Sight Shooting was not used in any of them.

Here is what he said about Sight Shooting: "You still ASSUME you will look at the gun in a real shooting. Wish we could find it on REAL videos of such things. We are still looking 900+ videos later."

Believing that Sight Shooting can be used in real close quarters shootings, is like believing in flying saucers.

There are a lot of good and honest folks who believe in flying saucers, and some have even said they have taken rides in them. Now, I don't doubt their honesty and sincerity a bit, but it would be nice to see a video or two of some flying saucers coming over low and slow.

There also are a lot of good and honest folks who believe that Sight Shooting can be used in real close quarters shootings. Some say they have used it themselves, or they say that they have seen it used. I don't doubt their honesty and sincerity either, but it would be nice to see a few videos of Sight Shooting being used.

I have seen many shooting videos. In them, the shooters do not aim. They just point their guns towards a target and blast away. Sight Shooting training, if they had any, goes out the window, and what you end up with is Point and Blast shooting with terrible accuracy. According to the FBI, the police miss rate is 83 percent.

In reviewing 900+ shooting videos, you could expect to find a few cases of gun operator error in that Sight Shooting was not used. But when there are 900+ cases of gun operator error in 900+ videos, something is amiss, and seriously so.

There is a growing body of scientific knowledge that deals with fight/flight situations and what happens in them. It provides scientific reasons why Sight Shooting is just not practical for use in close quarters shootings. But, even if you knew all the whys and wherefores, it would not change the fact that it is not used.

This information is not met with open arms by Police Agencies, trainers, and others in the gun community. It usually causes a general uprising among sight shooters, many of whom would like nothing better than to use the messenger for target practice. But no matter how much consternation it causes, it is irrefutable.

You can hoot and holler about it, or discuss and argue about who did this, that, or whatever. The exchanges, usually end up being futile exercises in trying to assign or shift blame, or save face. Nothing really gets resolved, changed, or improved.

Much of the new information on close quarters shootings comes from in-car video cameras. They are silent observers with perfect recall of what they hear and see. They don't care if or why something happens, or who or what caused it. They don't think, get confused, take sides, or have agendas. They just show what happens, and they do it frame by frame.

The negative reception the information gets, and the turmoil it causes, is understandable. It never was available before, and it brings into question long and strongly held beliefs and traditional ways.

The information poses the question of whether or not trainers are teaching an impractical method of applying deadly force in close quarters life and death situations. It also brings into question, statements made by those involved in shootings. This is not a happy situation, but hard facts, are hard facts, and they raise hard questions.

There are alternative shooting methods that are immediately available for use. And they require very little or no training for effective use. They deal only with the very narrow and vital area of aiming and shooting in close quarters. Nothing else is changed. They are simple and practical, and they can be used with current guns as is.

The alternative shooting methods are not new, but they are not widely accepted by the powers that be.

One such method is AIMED Point Shooting, or P&S. It was most recently and successfully tested a few years ago, at the Vermont Police Academy.

[The method was not part of the official training, it was presented to new VSP members by Walter Dorfner, the long time lead firearms instructor for the VSP. Walter died in 2001.]

P&S is fast, instinctive, automatic, and accurate. It can be used at day or night, in good light or bad, and under a wide variety of conditions. It is a no-brainer which according to the scientific literature, is just what is needed for effective use. Here is what a State Legislator, said about it.

"I was taught the P&S method by my father 36 years ago and taught it to both my daughters when they started shooting. Until today, I never even knew it had a name. It was just the way I was taught to shoot. It works!"

It would be nice to know if it is practical for use in real shootings. That information could be a real life saver for Police, and for the millions of civilians who have a handgun at home for self defense.
Since the Police have the in-car cameras, that information can only come from them.

To get it, one or more Police Agencies will have to step forward and test it or another alternate method of shooting.

The watchful eyes of in-car cameras, will quickly tell which is practical for use in real shootings. There are hundreds of thousands of Police, and millions of civilians who should be interested in the information.

Are there any volunteers out there?

Per FBI Uniform Crime Reports, during the last ten years, [prior to 2000] Police Officers have been shot and killed at the rate of one every seven days, and thousands and thousands have been wounded during that time. In addition to the human costs of those tragedies, millions and million of our tax dollars have been lost to them and the legal actions that flow from them. And unless changes are made, you can expect more of the same for the next ten years.

As far as I know there is no government agency that is responsible for providing "consumer user" type information to the millions of gun owning citizens, nor is there a private agency that has taken on that responsibility and which also has the ability to obtain it.

The ATF and the Federal Trade Commission do not deal with the issue of consumer safety and guns. The Consumer Products Safety Commission, by its charter, is exempted from dealing with firearms. And, the Occupational Safety And Health Administration does not deal with consumer issues, only worker concerns.

In short, no one is "in charge" in this area.

It would be good to know which method or methods of self defense shooting is or are the best, as that information could save Police Officers from injury and death. It also could have life saving value for the millions of civilians who have a handgun at home.

The recent [2000] extensive newspaper coverage and attention paid to Firestone tire blowouts, where Firestone tires MAY be linked to 46 deaths over a ten year period, is laudable from a consumer protection standpoint.

But it is perplexing when it is compared to 500 Police Officers deaths in the same ten year period that are directly linked to training to use an obviously impractical method of shooting in life or death Close Quarters situations, and about which little has been done to resolve this long standing and continuing tragedy.

..........

It is now 2012, and 600 more Police Officers have been shot and killed at the rate of one every seven days, and thousands upon thousands have been wounded in the past 12 years.

Obviously, Police are continuing to be trained in an impractical method of shooting for use in life or death close quarters situations, and which is a proven cop killer.

In the war in Afghanistan, 1,777 US troops have been killed in the in the past ten years, and thousands have been injured. And billions and billions of dollars have been spent on the war.

In the United States of America, 1,100 Police Officers have been killed in the past 22 years, and thousands are injured each year. To me that means that there's a real war going on in the United States, and nobody seems to care. Makes me both sad and mad.
March 1st, 2012  
5.56X45mm
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
What are these guys training for? Is this just to enhance their skill of 'self-defense'. Or is this sport shooting... To my untrained eye, this seems like some overzealous gun-lovers getting ready to get shipped over to Afghanistan.
Holy bring back the dead through the Lazurios pit and Ra's al Ghul Batman!

My reply to this is over a year old....

Chris Costa and Travis Haley are to former special forces operators that are now firearm instructors. They teach and develop courses for the US Armed Forces, Law Enforcement, and Civilians. I've taken three courses through Magpul Dynamics and they're good courses. The majority of students are cops and soldiers. Some were Joe Q Citizen looking to improve their skills for self defense shooting (remember carrying of firearms for self defense is legal in the majority of the USA) and some were looking to improve their skills for competition shooting.

Combat shooting skills develop from competition shooting. That is why the US Army has the United States Army Marksmanship Unit and their members compete in just about every high end competition in the USA and the world.

IPSC, IDPA, World SWAT Challenge, Steel Challenge, GSSF, etc.... A lot of what they do is then filtered down to combat units when they rotate out of the USAMU. It's good stuff.... I compete to keep my skills honed and to learn new stuff.
March 1st, 2012  
Jay
 
 
if i were entering a room or dark area with a sidearm i would keep the iron sights at eye level and do a quick scan, this is not only fast but since the gun is at a raised firing position even if there is an enemy visible at a longer range i would not need to adjust a grip to get off a solid shot.
 


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