Sigh...enviormentalist at it again.

I think this is just survival of the fittest.

If the wales can't adapt to kill submarines it's just Darwin man.

Who are we to play god?
 
If the wales can't adapt to kill submarines it's just Darwin man.
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Oh my god! Not the Welsh! Don't kill the Welsh, 1/4 me ancestors were Welsh you bloody bastard!

Who are we to play god?
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Exactly, who are we to play god?
(Please note this was said with intense sarcasm.)
 
PershingOfLSU wote:
Uh, we do have live fire exercises. Hell, we've even had nuclear live fire exercises.
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Did you even read what i wrote or did you just see key words and jump right in there?

You see i said:
So we should use live rounds against each other in training exercises?
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See the words against each other? That means firing live rounds at each other! It doesn't mean live fire exercises! OK, do you understand now? Not many militaries in the world conduct live fire and movement at their own men.
 
*nudge*nudge* I know... its losing its effect though the more we talk about it... oh damn... I said that outloud didn't I... :cen:
 
Dammit... I hate hippies... I say we need to train as if there were a war going on. screw a few whales. Better a couple of free willies die than a couple hundred of my countrymen cause some environmentalist :cen: felt he needed his 15 minutes of fame, and didn't allow our soldiers to train with the equipment they will use in a war situation.

There is a reason the military trains like there's a war, and that's so they can drive, fly, shoot, bomb, detect and kick ass better than the rest of 'em! Hippies... :rambo:

Hopeful
 
I just llike to point out that it wasnt so long ago that Conservative Republicans were the most ardent enviromentalists in the country. Many still are.

As for the Whales I going to side with Flipper. Everytime man screws around with Ma nature, Ma nature fights back. I have no idea what this could mean in terms of the whales, but I'd rather not find out.

I do know that the Navy has stopped using active sonar in certain areas of the Atlantic known to be Whale breeding/feeding areas.
 
warhappy100 wrote:
I side with whales navy can train new lads on simulater.


What an uneducated statement that was.


In fact one of the only few educated statements in this thread.
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No, i disagree thats incredibly stupid. You cant train submariners on a :cen: simulator. They need the real expereience and the pressures knowing theres not a reset button. Not to mention. how the hell do you plan on building a submarine simulator.
 
I see, so all those tank simulators out at Fort Knox are a complete waste of both time and money? Get real. Simulations are an excellent method of training especially when coupled with some wall to wall counselling for repeated screw-ups. It would be far cheaper and not above the abilities of the US military and its vendors to construct and operate than to constantly run "real life" training ops. Do you honestly think there is any difference between a "reset" button on a simulator and a "do-over" in a "real" training mission? The only way you can remove that element of perceived safety is to conduct an operation where NO ONE knows it isn't real.
 
So I guess we should go play laser tag to train our soldiers than, eh? I guess pilots really don't have to actually fly to learn how. They can get in a special seat and look at a cool screen. Get Real! :roll:
 
Your ignorance is showing... ;)

THAT is exactly what they do for hours before they ever set foot into a cockpit. Tankers do the same. Commercial airline pilots as well. Our soldiers do not fire live rounds at each other they use simunition and lasers.

I do not claim to be omniscient, actually far from it but I cannot foresee a reason why submariners are not capable of the same benefits of simulated training in lieu of the current practice which is damaging other sentient beings we share this planet with.
 
While that is true, they still go out and fly the jet or drive the tank or shoot the rifle with REAL ammo. While they don't shoot loaded rifles at eachother they still do missions with live ammo. You can't replace flying a jet for playing a sim game. You can't train a Navy on all simulators. Yes, they can be used but you can't learn how to fly a plane, shoot a gun, drive a tank all by sims.
 
FutureDevilDog said:
You agree with him!?
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Yes as a matter of fact I do. The new Navy men can perfectly be trained on a simulator before they are allowed to enter a ship and do their real job there - in which case they are, so then again what?

Simulators can be close to the real thing, how do cabin crew on airliners practice their skills in case of emergency? Tank commanders to improve their skills and receive feedback from the rest of the platoon, and astronauts practice their navigation skills? Real time simulating :D

I honestly think that if you can avoid doing it live - then use simulator and vica versa. All training is good training - and yeah put laser tags on your soldiers as well - the laser training is powerful, useful and you learn to keep your head down...

JMO.
 
Do you realize how many people it takes to run a submarine? Do you realize how big that simulator would have to be? And sure simulators are nice asset in training but sure as hell shouldnt be the only.
 
They already have sub simulators. They're used now to train future submariners to react to critical problems. I see no reason why if they can build a simulator for that purpose they couldn't do another.
 
Rabs said:
Do you realize how many people it takes to run a submarine? Do you realize how big that simulator would have to be? And sure simulators are nice asset in training but sure as hell shouldnt be the only.
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Yes that number is quite big. But I'm talking on key positions here such as sonar, weapons systems etc, not the entire sub.

Don't get me wrong on this - I understand the importance of having highly trained submarines on alert ready to intercept and destroy naval threats! I just mean that if the Navy, Army and Airforce can help in any way of saving the enviroment then simulators should be used as much as possible - but the value of live firing exercises cannot be obtained any other way than live.
 
I dunno... I have to say that there is nothing like on the job experience. A sim will get you ready to a certain extent, but you NEED to really be in the sub, really in the seat and really using a real sonar. But I Don't see anyhting wrong with their decision to move away form the areas of heavy whale migration/breeding. the whales are safe, our boys get to train in a real sub, the hippies get to shut up, and everyone's happy.
Hopeful
 
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