There are big differences between Sea Lion and Mercury

1 Mercury lasted 2 weeks and Sea Lion would last months
2 Mercury happened in May and Sea Lion was scheduled to start in the second half of September and it would last months ,til in 1941 . The buildup would decide the success or failure .But such an enormous buildup would be impossible in the Autumn/Winter because of the weather.Overlord was delayed from June 5 to June 6 because of the weather and on June 19 ,the American Mulberry ( the Germans had no Mulberries ) was destroyed by a Summer storm .And the weather in the Channel is much more dangerous than the weather at the coasts of Normandy .

Originally Posted by MontyB

One scenario not taken into account is the battle for Crete, the Germans landed and supported a much smaller force than the defenders at the maximum range of the Luftwaffe in the face of a stronger British Naval presence.

What must also be considered are the thousands of ex WW1 veterans, they may not be able to run around like an 18 year old, but give them a rifle and enough rounds, they could decimate invading troops, like a rifle club in Norway did during the German invasion. German casualties were so high the Germans had to withdraw and regroup.

The British senior officer response to the German para's drop on Crete was a cockup from day one, DESPITE being forewarned. I put the battle of Crete in the same line of cockups as the Battle of Isandlwana 22 January 1879. One difference, the Zulu's didnt take prisoners.

I was messing about on youtube and found this, it seemed appropriate.

https://youtu.be/OaH2-g04cIA

It is only the first few minutes that are of interest as I don't believe a successful invasion was possible.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I was messing about on youtube and found this, it seemed appropriate.

https://youtu.be/OaH2-g04cIA

It is only the first few minutes that are of interest as I don't believe a successful invasion was possible.

I found this video quite interesting. However, the problem of discussions like this, there are far too many ""What if's"" to take into consideration.

Originally Posted by BritinBritain

I found this video quite interesting. However, the problem of discussions like this, there are far too many ""What if's"" to take into consideration.

It is but it skips some vital points:
1: Even had the Luftwaffe defeated 11 Group they simply would have retreated to 10 and 12 group bases and carried on the fight.

2: The idea of the Kriegsmarine patrolling British waters assumes that somehow they had defeated the Royal Navy which was an impossibility in 1940.

There is no way the Luftwaffe could have achieved anything more than local air superiority over the southern coast yet there scenarios around suing for peace and defeat ignore the fact that both the RAF and RN would still have been operational during these scenarios, basically the just assume they are gone from the picture.

this is why I suggested that only the first 10 or so minutes were worth watching.

Originally Posted by MontyB

It is but it skips some vital points:
1: Even had the Luftwaffe defeated 11 Group they simply would have retreated to 10 and 12 group bases and carried on the fight.

2: The idea of the Kriegsmarine patrolling British waters assumes that somehow they had defeated the Royal Navy which was an impossibility in 1940.

There is no way the Luftwaffe could have achieved anything more than local air superiority over the southern coast yet there scenarios around suing for peace and defeat ignore the fact that both the RAF and RN would still have been operational during these scenarios, basically the just assume they are gone from the picture.

this is why I suggested that only the first 10 or so minutes were worth watching.

If I remember correctly Adolf Galland, Stanford Tuck and other BoB pilots from both sides discussed this scenario and basically they all agreed Sealion and the defeat of the RAF would have been impossible.

Even IF the Germans had landed in Kent there were groups and arms stashes all over the UK, in fact some arms stashes were still being discovered many years after the war ended. There were no records kept as to the locations of equipment and stores being stashed. Members of these secret groups passed away without passing on any information as to there location.

There was a scenario a few years ago during a firearms amnesty where people with unlicensed and illegal firearms could be handed into the police no questions asked. To cut a long story short, a little old lady phoned the police to collect a firearm issued to her now dead husband during WW2. The police arrived and found an immaculate Vickers 303 on its tripod with a belt of 303 inserted into the gun. Panic ensued as the gun was loaded and ready to go, even the army couldnt help as no one was trained on the Vickers anymore. Fortunately a janitor at the local TA centre informed the permanent staff OC, he was indeed trained on the gun . He was taken to the home of the old lady where he unloaded the gun, then dismantled the gun for transport. When asked why her husband didnt give the gun back to the army when the war was over, she told the police that he had tried but because there was no record of the gun, the army didnt want to know.

Last I heard the immaculate Vickers is an exhibit in a regimental museum

Originally Posted by BritinBritain

If I remember correctly Adolf Galland, Stanford Tuck and other BoB pilots from both sides discussed this scenario and basically they all agreed Sealion and the defeat of the RAF would have been impossible.

Even IF the Germans had landed in Kent there were groups and arms stashes all over the UK, in fact some arms stashes were still being discovered many years after the war ended. There were no records kept as to the locations of equipment and stores being stashed. Members of these secret groups passed away without passing on any information as to there location.

There was a scenario a few years ago during a firearms amnesty where people with unlicensed and illegal firearms could be handed into the police no questions asked. To cut a long story short, a little old lady phoned the police to collect a firearm issued to her now dead husband during WW2. The police arrived and found an immaculate Vickers 303 on its tripod with a belt of 303 inserted into the gun. Panic ensued as the gun was loaded and ready to go, even the army couldnt help as no one was trained on the Vickers anymore. Fortunately a janitor at the local TA centre informed the permanent staff OC, he was indeed trained on the gun . He was taken to the home of the old lady where he unloaded the gun, then dismantled the gun for transport. When asked why her husband didnt give the gun back to the army when the war was over, she told the police that he had tried but because there was no record of the gun, the army didnt want to know.

Last I heard the immaculate Vickers is an exhibit in a regimental museum

I remember reading about the Vickers. It could be Germany lost WWII when their "big bomber" advocate was killed in a crash some years before the War started.,

The only way Sea Lion could have succeeded was if before British morale collapsed,and it did not : Coventry, London,Liverpool, all this did not break British morale .
A defeat of Fighter Command in August or September would not have made Sea Lion possible .

Originally Posted by lljadw

The only way Sea Lion could have succeeded was if before British morale collapsed,and it did not : Coventry, London,Liverpool, all this did not break British morale .
A defeat of Fighter Command in August or September would not have made Sea Lion possible .

I tend to agree, Sea Lion was never really viable.

If there was ever a time that it might have been possible I suspect it would have had to be timed within days or a few weeks of Operation Dynamo to take advantage of the confusion and chaos at that time.

Considering the losses that the RN took during Dynamo, it would have been rough on them stopping a crossing, but would have been successful.