Should Bush meet with Cindy Sheehan?
phoenix80
Banned
Rabs said:
Yes, I know that your army is a professional army.
But there are some war resisters (deserters) who fled to canada since 2003.
Check these links plz
http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Images/condon0705.html
http://www.resisters.ca/resisters_stories.html
behemoth79
Active member
I believe that she is using her sons death to promote her political views. There is no good that has, or will come from the show she is putting on. I dont see her goal. Does she want an immediate evac of Iraq? IMO, that would be a waste of lives, not staying there. Which would you rather hear?
"your son has given his life for an effort that we gave up on. Iraq is now the same as it was before we entered."
or
"your son has given his life for an effort that we toughed out. Iraq is no longer a bastion for terrorists. because of you son's sacrafice, countless people are now living a better life."
I have always believed that anti-war protests should come before or after a war, not during. As much as you hate the politicians, there is no way the war will be called off like a baseball game. our soldiers need all the support they can get. dissent among their own families are the last thing they need at a time like this.
Also, who does she think she is? Im sorry if this sounds harsh, but she is not any more special than the other families who have lost loved ones. President Bush should not have even given it a second glance. She comes in saying, "my son was killed in Iraq and i want a one-on-one with the President for explanations." She should have gotten a response similar to, "Shut up. You and thousands of others. Go home. Were sorry for you loss but your son knew full well the risks of joining the military. he volunteered."
I also cant stop lauging when people call this a war of lies. Faulty intellegince, ok, but not lies. Do you honestly believe President Bush was sitting in his office one day and decided, "hey lets attack Iraq for oil and sell it to americans as it being a war against terror." I admitt hes not the brightest man in the world but hes not retarded. This isnt some right-wing Christian crusade against Muslim nations either. He had his intel, and from what it showed, Iraq was harboring terrorists and had WMD's. He did what he believed was the best COA at the time. Whether it was right or wrong is not a subject that needs to be discussed at this time. We need to rally around our troops, give them a morale boost so they can get the job done quickly so we can pull out of that hell hole. Then we can decide whether it was right or wrong.
I think I'll stop now before i say something that might get me banned
"your son has given his life for an effort that we gave up on. Iraq is now the same as it was before we entered."
or
"your son has given his life for an effort that we toughed out. Iraq is no longer a bastion for terrorists. because of you son's sacrafice, countless people are now living a better life."
I have always believed that anti-war protests should come before or after a war, not during. As much as you hate the politicians, there is no way the war will be called off like a baseball game. our soldiers need all the support they can get. dissent among their own families are the last thing they need at a time like this.
Also, who does she think she is? Im sorry if this sounds harsh, but she is not any more special than the other families who have lost loved ones. President Bush should not have even given it a second glance. She comes in saying, "my son was killed in Iraq and i want a one-on-one with the President for explanations." She should have gotten a response similar to, "Shut up. You and thousands of others. Go home. Were sorry for you loss but your son knew full well the risks of joining the military. he volunteered."
I also cant stop lauging when people call this a war of lies. Faulty intellegince, ok, but not lies. Do you honestly believe President Bush was sitting in his office one day and decided, "hey lets attack Iraq for oil and sell it to americans as it being a war against terror." I admitt hes not the brightest man in the world but hes not retarded. This isnt some right-wing Christian crusade against Muslim nations either. He had his intel, and from what it showed, Iraq was harboring terrorists and had WMD's. He did what he believed was the best COA at the time. Whether it was right or wrong is not a subject that needs to be discussed at this time. We need to rally around our troops, give them a morale boost so they can get the job done quickly so we can pull out of that hell hole. Then we can decide whether it was right or wrong.
I think I'll stop now before i say something that might get me banned
mzspaztastic
Active member
i'm pretty sick of hearing about Cindy Sheehan all over the news, so i dont really want to get into a big argument. but here are a couple of things that i saw during this thread, as well as my own thoughts on the subject. but like i said, im pretty tired of hearing about her.
1. cindy sheehan left the protest because her mother is sick. (someone mentioned that she left, and i figured i'd put in why)
2. she also met with bush in a meeting with a few other families, and bush (according to her) came in as if he were a knight in shining armor and doing them a favor, shook hands with each person and said he was sorry for the loss of their loved one.
3. bush's advisors came out to speak with sheehan at the very beginning.
now my problem with #2 is that bush didn't even take the time to learn the names of the few soldiers that had been killed in combat whose parents were in the room. i understand that bush will never know the names of every soldier who died, but when put in a situation where you are meeting with just a few families, the proper thing to do (if he were sincerely apologizing, that is, as opposed to doing it for the positive light it would shed on him, making him look like he cares about those he is sacrificing) would be to learn the names of the soldiers that were being represented. it's not hard to memorize a few names, or at least ask the families what their childs name was and spend a few minutes with each, as opposed to making a sweep through the room acting like they should be thanking their lucky stars that they are in his presence (nevermind the fact that he should be thanking them for their childs sacrifices).
so i understand why cindy sheehan is upset. not only did she lose her son, but she had a chance to meet with bush and he acted inappropriately by giving the impression that he didn't give a crap. so i understand her wanting a second meeting to ask him what "noble cause" (as he claims) her son died for, and for a sincere apology.
but it's turned into a platform for her to launch an anti-bush attack. now i myself am against this war in iraq, and i'm not a bush fan, either, but at the same time, i think she has gone too far. she has gone from requesting a simple interview to a smear campaign.
people have been saying that if bush had met with her when she first requested the interview (and his political advisors all came out and met with her, by the way), or stopped by the protest site when he drove by in his motorcade, this wouldnt be an issue. but i think it would be. i think she would still be out there. i think she would devise another scheme to launch this attack. i dont think there is anything wrong with protesting or using free speech, and like i said, i'm against this war as well, but attempting to corner him in his own ranch is not the best way to do it. it turns it from a political attack to a personal attack.
if her concerns were really about her opposition to the war, then she would have stopped after meeting with his advisors. if she really wanted a sincere apology, she should have said something that first time. or soon after.
unfortunately, her son will no longer be remembered as a soldier who died fighting for his country, he will be remembered for his mother. and thats a great dishonor to Casey, because it is Casey, not Cindy, who deserves to be remembered.
Wow, I didn't realize I wrote so much.
1. cindy sheehan left the protest because her mother is sick. (someone mentioned that she left, and i figured i'd put in why)
2. she also met with bush in a meeting with a few other families, and bush (according to her) came in as if he were a knight in shining armor and doing them a favor, shook hands with each person and said he was sorry for the loss of their loved one.
3. bush's advisors came out to speak with sheehan at the very beginning.
now my problem with #2 is that bush didn't even take the time to learn the names of the few soldiers that had been killed in combat whose parents were in the room. i understand that bush will never know the names of every soldier who died, but when put in a situation where you are meeting with just a few families, the proper thing to do (if he were sincerely apologizing, that is, as opposed to doing it for the positive light it would shed on him, making him look like he cares about those he is sacrificing) would be to learn the names of the soldiers that were being represented. it's not hard to memorize a few names, or at least ask the families what their childs name was and spend a few minutes with each, as opposed to making a sweep through the room acting like they should be thanking their lucky stars that they are in his presence (nevermind the fact that he should be thanking them for their childs sacrifices).
so i understand why cindy sheehan is upset. not only did she lose her son, but she had a chance to meet with bush and he acted inappropriately by giving the impression that he didn't give a crap. so i understand her wanting a second meeting to ask him what "noble cause" (as he claims) her son died for, and for a sincere apology.
but it's turned into a platform for her to launch an anti-bush attack. now i myself am against this war in iraq, and i'm not a bush fan, either, but at the same time, i think she has gone too far. she has gone from requesting a simple interview to a smear campaign.
people have been saying that if bush had met with her when she first requested the interview (and his political advisors all came out and met with her, by the way), or stopped by the protest site when he drove by in his motorcade, this wouldnt be an issue. but i think it would be. i think she would still be out there. i think she would devise another scheme to launch this attack. i dont think there is anything wrong with protesting or using free speech, and like i said, i'm against this war as well, but attempting to corner him in his own ranch is not the best way to do it. it turns it from a political attack to a personal attack.
if her concerns were really about her opposition to the war, then she would have stopped after meeting with his advisors. if she really wanted a sincere apology, she should have said something that first time. or soon after.
unfortunately, her son will no longer be remembered as a soldier who died fighting for his country, he will be remembered for his mother. and thats a great dishonor to Casey, because it is Casey, not Cindy, who deserves to be remembered.
Wow, I didn't realize I wrote so much.
Missileer
Active member
Great post. A lot like I feel about some of it. A lot was left out of the news media about Ms Sheehan arriving at the first meeting with the President. I watched her interviewed on a morning news show and she had come to the meeting in a confrontational manner. She said that she told an aide that she did not want to talk to the President with a small group which was there for the same reason because she considered herself a family of one and demanded a private meeting, which she got. I'm not sure about her words used to the President or his to her. All I know is what she told as being the truth. I also know that President Bush has never spoken to or acted the way she described toward any of the families. On the contrary, she is the only one with a story like the one she told. That is all I know about the "meeting" so far. Until someone else comes forward with the same description of a meeting with the President, I guess some will just have to take her at her word, which I don't.
Duty Honor Country
Active member
I have tried to post here a few times, but I could never formulate a response to my liking even though some were very lengthy. Someone wrote a letter to the USA Today on this subject that I agree with 100%. I will post that in a minute.
Before I post the letter, I feel the need to say this. Out of everyone in the forum, I probably have more to do with this thread than anyone else. I joined the Army in 97 and have served 5 years active duty and 3 years Army Reserves. Mmarsh mentioned something about Kosovo. I went there under President Clinton in 2000. As Iraq goes, I have been there too. Now my wife is about to head off to Iraq, making me one of those "loved ones" on the home front. My life right now has everything to do with Iraq and politics surrounding it. With that said, here is the letter which I have chosen to represent my views.
I have tried to put my self in Cindy Sheehan's shoes by thinking how I would react to losing my wife in Iraq. Somehow I do not see myself using my wife's death for a political statement. Neither would I demand anything from President Bush.
Doody
Before I post the letter, I feel the need to say this. Out of everyone in the forum, I probably have more to do with this thread than anyone else. I joined the Army in 97 and have served 5 years active duty and 3 years Army Reserves. Mmarsh mentioned something about Kosovo. I went there under President Clinton in 2000. As Iraq goes, I have been there too. Now my wife is about to head off to Iraq, making me one of those "loved ones" on the home front. My life right now has everything to do with Iraq and politics surrounding it. With that said, here is the letter which I have chosen to represent my views.
I have tried to put my self in Cindy Sheehan's shoes by thinking how I would react to losing my wife in Iraq. Somehow I do not see myself using my wife's death for a political statement. Neither would I demand anything from President Bush.
Doody
mzspaztastic
Active member
i like the way that was said. good letter
Missileer
Active member
Good read Doody. I know how you would react, you'd grieve for the rest of your life but I believe that in the end you would accept the hand you were dealt and go on with life. Fighting a war of aggression hurts the country to some extent, but to the people who lose someone close it hurts almost unbearably. My prayers are with you.
Lord Londonderry
Banned
Bush must be looking at ways of minimizing the long term political damage.
She seems to have done what others have failed to do: she has forced President Bush to directly address the number of US casualties in the war.
Breaking a holiday at his Texas ranch, Mr Bush travelled to Utah to address a meeting of veterans from previous wars to try to turn the Sheehan argument on its head. He said that to withdraw from Iraq would not honour the Americans who had died.
In a departure from previous speeches on the Iraq war, he mentioned the number of casualties America had suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan.
She seems to have done what others have failed to do: she has forced President Bush to directly address the number of US casualties in the war.
Breaking a holiday at his Texas ranch, Mr Bush travelled to Utah to address a meeting of veterans from previous wars to try to turn the Sheehan argument on its head. He said that to withdraw from Iraq would not honour the Americans who had died.
In a departure from previous speeches on the Iraq war, he mentioned the number of casualties America had suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Mighty Mouse
Active member
I agree with Bush on that point. Why should he meet with her again? She has stated that she wants to ask Bush "Why did you kill my son". I think she ought to asking that of the Islamic insurgents not of the president :roll:
Lord Londonderry
Banned
Missileer said:
Yes, but she has forced him to change tactics. Amazing isn't it.
I think she is just using the death of her son to push for her own political agenda or political views.
Her son reenlisted knowing his unit was going back to Iraq.
I don't think she even has taken into account her sons views, that he believed he was doing something important, and honor his death in a just way, instead of trying to undo what he died for.
If that were the case then why does she call for the withdrawal of the troops, then her son would have died for nothing. Something smells fishy with her whole agenda if you ask me.
Her son reenlisted knowing his unit was going back to Iraq.
I don't think she even has taken into account her sons views, that he believed he was doing something important, and honor his death in a just way, instead of trying to undo what he died for.
If that were the case then why does she call for the withdrawal of the troops, then her son would have died for nothing. Something smells fishy with her whole agenda if you ask me.
Duty Honor Country
Active member
Lord Londonderry
Banned
Just read his recent speeches. He has started to mention casualties. I think most clear thinking Americans can see the effect Sheehan and the war is having on Bush.
Why do you have to defend Bush 100% of the time? From now on it's starting to become a little unwise.
What's Bush's "escape" plan from Iraq??
Why do you have to defend Bush 100% of the time? From now on it's starting to become a little unwise.
What's Bush's "escape" plan from Iraq??
Missileer
Active member
Strongbow said:
Oh, I see it as a fair question to ask someone who declares that our military tactics or even political tactics are changed because of Ms Sheehan. Maybe you have the answer. I'll wait with bated breath. If there is nothing but your hatred for President Bush that prompts this position, then say IMO, not a fact.