Shootings - Page 7




 
--
Boots
 
June 30th, 2018  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I am not sure about anyone else but I am struggling to find a coherant counter argument that isn't "we need more guns" which is about as well thought out as "reducing restrictions on speed and increasing the number of cars on the road will reduce the number of road deaths" so I propose a change of direction rather than just have George respond to every post with "more guns is the way to stop shootings"

The USA is awash with firearms both legal and illegal if you were to change the rules how do do to ensure you aren't just disarming the law abiding populous?

Most of our nation's simply made pistols which were easily concealed harder to get (read as requiring a special license) and then put restrictions on the transport of rifles (had to be unloaded and in a case in public).
We have very strict laws about how you store your firearms and the police are regularly checking how the licensed owners store their firearms in their homes. We have illegal firearms floating around and yet we don't have the same problem. To get a handgun here you must be a member of a shooting club for six months (minimum) being able to shoot the gold medal. But it doesn't stop there. Through the years the gun owner must be active in the club and participate in the clubs competitions. If he or she fails with that, the firearm license is terminated immediately and the police will confiscate the firearms. The license can be revoked if the gun owner is punished for other violent crimes, such as domestic violence, sexual assault, and other violent crimes
June 30th, 2018  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
We have very strict laws about how you store your firearms and the police are regularly checking how the licensed owners store their firearms in their homes. We have illegal firearms floating around and yet we don't have the same problem. To get a handgun here you must be a member of a shooting club for six months (minimum) being able to shoot the gold medal. But it doesn't stop there. Through the years the gun owner must be active in the club and participate in the clubs competitions. If he or she fails with that, the firearm license is terminated immediately and the police will confiscate the firearms. The license can be revoked if the gun owner is punished for other violent crimes, such as domestic violence, sexual assault, and other violent crimes
We have similar rules regarding handguns although I circumvented it a little by going with a collectors license first and then got my handgun endorsement followed by a restricted and military style later, to maintain those licenses I get a random police inspection yearly.

Generally the inspection is informal, takes about 2 hours (30 mins to check storage, 1.5 hours of playing with the collection).

With regards to illegal (unregistered) firearms most of ours came when they changed the rules, initially you just needed to take a gun safety course and the firearms were registered but not the owner, after the Aromoana shootings they changed the rules to register the owner and a lot of people never renewed their license thus a lot of unregistered weapons are out there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Frogman
I'm not calling for a complete disarmament of firearms from the law abiding populous.

How about a UK type system? Every citizen has to apply for a licence. Each applicant has a criminal/police check and an assessment with a doctor to make sure there are no mental issues? All weapons must be securely locked up when not in use and must be concealed when carried in public. Anyone that doesn't follow this loses their firearms. Anyone caught with a firearm and no licence goes to jail. Anyone that mishands or misuses their firearms loses their licence and goes to jail. There a annual checks to ensure the applicant is still safe to own their firearms.

Other countries manage to control firearms properly. Why can't the US?
With the exception of the doctors assessment your system is more or less the same as ours and despite all that I still can legally own a small arsenal in a country with very little gun crime.
July 5th, 2018  
JOC
 
 
Yes ones hears so much about these extremely rare but very highly publicized shooting by crazed kids who finagle an often legal gun to go nuts with and gun people down at schools etc. The real problem is that people can buy a friggen weapons on the street and commit crime. Like narcotics, guns have a way of making there way onto the street and black-market, this should be stopped. Also we as citizens of the USA we have the right to bear arms, but no civilian needs an automatic weapon. However don't even begin to question our ability to hunt pls.
--
Boots
July 5th, 2018  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Yes ones hears so much about these extremely rare but very highly publicized shooting by crazed kids who finagle an often legal gun to go nuts with and gun people down at schools etc. The real problem is that people can buy a friggen weapons on the street and commit crime. Like narcotics, guns have a way of making there way onto the street and black-market, this should be stopped. Also we as citizens of the USA we have the right to bear arms, but no civilian needs an automatic weapon. However don't even begin to question our ability to hunt pls.



This triggers one of the problems I have, explain to me what the problem is with a law-abiding citizen owning an automatic?


Your problem is not firearms it is the free for all nature you have allowed them into society, by definition law-abiding people don't commit crimes and therefore are no threat or danger owning an automatic weapon.


but you have very lax control on sales, ownership and little if any control on sales of secondhand weapons, it isn't hard to see why your criminal world is awash with them, here, for example, every weapon I own is registered to me and it is illegal to sell secondhand firearms to people who do have a license, I also have to report any theft as soon as it is discovered.



We also have a large number of unregistered firearms but because you cant wander the streets with them taking them out in public is not a good idea, firearms to us are solely for hunting and pest elimination and you would have your arms license revoked and weapons seized if you tried telling them it was for "protection".
July 6th, 2018  
JOC
 
 
[QUOTE=MontyB;706776]This triggers one of the problems I have, explain to me what the problem is with a law-abiding citizen owning an automatic?
QUOTE]


An automatic weapon is unnecessary for either hunting or sport shooting. As for self protection in NYS (where I live weapons cannot be carried around while loaded. One can only load them until you get to the range or hunting grounds. Exception being a special pistil permit which is highly regulated. So tell me why a "so called law abiding citizen would require an automatic weapon, what's the reasoning here unless we get onto some high hated BS, that well if you can own a single barrel shotgun you should be able to also own an AK-47"? BTW, hearing some strong anti US sentiments here that have nothing to do worth the any weapons issues.
July 6th, 2018  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
[quote=JOC;706777]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
This triggers one of the problems I have, explain to me what the problem is with a law-abiding citizen owning an automatic?
QUOTE]


An automatic weapon is unnecessary for either hunting or sport shooting. As for self protection in NYS (where I live weapons cannot be carried around while loaded. One can only load them until you get to the range or hunting grounds. Exception being a special pistil permit which is highly regulated. So tell me why a "so called law abiding citizen would require an automatic weapon, what's the reasoning here unless we get onto some high hated BS, that well if you can own a single barrel shotgun you should be able to also own an AK-47"? BTW, hearing some strong anti US sentiments here that have nothing to do worth the any weapons issues.
If we take a closer look at the AR-15 and similar firearms. The majority of them are chambered for the 5.56, which is pretty useless caliber for hunting. Hunting is quite popular around here and humans have been hunting since the beginning of time. The majority of our hunters do it to fill their freezers with meat. Sweden divides hunting into two categories, class one and class two. The class one firearms are rifles and the lowest caliber allowed for class one is the 6.5x55, the most popular calibers are either 308W or 30-06. There are hunters having firearms with bigger calibers, but these calibers usually destroy too much meat on the animal. The municipalities here have their own hunters who the police call when an animal have been hit by a car and ran off into the forest. These hunters usually have firearms with 300WM or something like that. They need more powerful calibers if they need to find an injured bear. The class one weapons are used for deer, moose, wild boar, caribou, and bear. The class two are shotguns and they are used for bird hunts, rabbits, and other smaller animals. To be hunter here requires passing a background check, passing the courses for both classes and passing the shooting test. When all this is done. the hunter must buy a weapon safe, send the receipt to the police and the receipt of the weapon he or she desires to buy. The police also inspect the gun owners storage of the weapons. A hunter is allowed to have three rifles and three shotguns.

We have collectors here, but they are few and far between. They are usually looking for rare firearms or firearms from a specific manufacture. I had a chat with one, he was a colonel in the army. He wasn't interested in firearms after WWII. He was interested in some of the German weapons from the war. He really wanted a Fallshirmsjäger rifle.

There is one thing we might need to consider. The majority of the illegal firearms floating around have at one point being legal. If the transition from being legal to illegal is more difficult. One way to achieve it is to store the firearms safer than having them in a closet
July 6th, 2018  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Yes ones hears so much about these extremely rare but very highly publicized shooting by crazed kids who finagle an often legal gun to go nuts with and gun people down at schools etc.
I don't think they are "extremely rare". There's one at least once a year.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
The real problem is that people can buy a friggen weapons on the street and commit crime. Like narcotics, guns have a way of making there way onto the street and black-market, this should be stopped.
I completely agree. However, very few (if any?) of the mass shootings involves illegally held firearms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
Also we as citizens of the USA we have the right to bear arms, but no civilian needs an automatic weapon. However don't even begin to question our ability to hunt pls.
It's good to see an American with a common sense approach.

No one is questioning your ability to hunt? I would in fact welcome it as that's the only reason that any civilian should want a firearm.
July 6th, 2018  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
BTW, hearing some strong anti US sentiments here that have nothing to do worth the any weapons issues.
There are no anti-US sentiments, just a frustration that individuals like George can't see the obvious problems and the answer to every problem is to get more firearms.
July 6th, 2018  
MontyB
 
 
[quote=JOC;706777]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
This triggers one of the problems I have, explain to me what the problem is with a law-abiding citizen owning an automatic?
QUOTE]


An automatic weapon is unnecessary for either hunting or sport shooting. As for self protection in NYS (where I live weapons cannot be carried around while loaded. One can only load them until you get to the range or hunting grounds. Exception being a special pistil permit which is highly regulated. So tell me why a "so called law abiding citizen would require an automatic weapon, what's the reasoning here unless we get onto some high hated BS, that well if you can own a single barrel shotgun you should be able to also own an AK-47"? BTW, hearing some strong anti US sentiments here that have nothing to do worth the any weapons issues.

No one outside a combat zone requires an automatic weapon but then it could be argued that no one outside the racing industry requires a car or the fishing industry requires a boat, it is not about "requires" it is about "wants".


In a genuinely free and civilised society full of people who follow the law people should be allowed to own whatever they like.


The fact is law-abiding people are not a threat to anyone, I live in a small city, I don't have to hunt for my food nor are there native or wild animals likely to attack me in the supermarket carpark I don't require a firearm for anything yet I own 54 firearms ranging from Blackpowder to an MG-42 and everything in between because I want to and am prepared to jump through whatever hoops the government sees fit to put in my way to ensure that I am safe to own them.
July 6th, 2018  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
We have collectors here, but they are few and far between. They are usually looking for rare firearms or firearms from a specific manufacture. I had a chat with one, he was a colonel in the army. He wasn't interested in firearms after WWII. He was interested in some of the German weapons from the war. He really wanted a Fallshirmsjäger rifle.

Really, how is he off for an Mp-44?
(oddly this is a serious question)


I also collect WW2 firearms.
 


Similar Topics
Danish police arrest man suspected of links to February 14-15 shootings
Update on Copenhagen shootings in Denmark: Suspect killed
Paris police arrest 12 linked to shootings as Kerry arrives
Suspects sought in shootings of 2 Missouri officers
Firearms Possession discussion (in response to yet another US shooting)