Shooting Civies?




 
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June 30th, 2005  
:Brad:
 

Topic: Shooting Civies?


Guys this situation is going back to end of last year I think, but I would like to know what you thought about the US Marine shooting the wounded Insurgent.Well the question is what do you think?
My opinion is that the wounded Insurgent had a weapon in his hand a couple of minutes ago which was a threat but could still be because if you watch the real footage they didnt show the Insurgent had his AK47 next to him and the Insurgent went to reach for it and thats why the marine shot him.Now did anybody else see that?
June 30th, 2005  
greenarmy1980
 
 

Topic: Marine did right


I remember seeing that same footage, and I would have to agree that it did indeed appear that the insurgent had a weapon next to him. I also agree with the decsision that the Marine made in shooting the insurgent.

One other comment not really on the same particular scenario. When clearing buildings, in my experience, the first person that the team clearing the building sees is the one that will have the most lead regardless if they are bad or not, usually when we have to clear a building due to an Ambush and the vehicle became disabled, our adrenaline is just pumping and we are focused on seeking safety, four our wounded if any, and for the rest of the team. I remember our vehicle being disabled and we rushed into a building, unfortunately we shot the person we ran across, thankfully they were just happening to be carrying a weapon, unfortunately we found out that it was an Iraqi Police officer, he was grabbing his weapon as he was going to go outside and investigate the disturbance that was occurring outside of his home. Thankfully we did not kill the guy, he was rather hospitable when we patched him up while waiting for recovery. We of course in a sign of good faith did give him authorization to come to the gate and get treated for the wonds that we inflicted upon him.

What I am getting at is this is WAR. Not someplace where you have time to think. All though we are trained to identify our targets prior to engaging, sometimes you have to act on the spur of the moment, and in that moment mistakes can be made, or you could save the lives of every man that is coming through the door behind you.

SSG Lucus J Reaser
June 30th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
I think the whole thing is media BS. If the soldier felt threatened on a battlefield then he should shoot and ask questions later. I think that this soldier clearly felt threatened so that's his call to make, not us armchair generals sitting behind our computers in our comfy chairs and airconditioning sipping on ice cold water.

Now if he shot the guyout of shear hate or malice just to shoot a wounded guy then I would be all for disciplinary action, but that's not what happened here.

Remember that this is an enemy that plays dead and shoots americans, than waves white flags and when americans come out to get them, all of a sudden pull out AKs and start blasting, the kind of enemy that shoots from behind civilian human shields. And if these tactics lead to our boys being a bit to jumpy on the trigger then that is THEIR fault for breaking the laws of war and why civilized countries don't do things like that.
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June 30th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
Police have to deal with the same scenarios every day. You have less than a second to react otherwise there could be a lot of folks talking about what a good cop you were.
June 30th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
There are HUUUUUGE differences between a police officer and a soldier. Don't ever hold soldiers to the same life-saving standards as the police.

When the police are trying to arrest non-citizens halfway around the world with 3 days without sleep and 2 of their best buddies killed by a mortar and hundreds of suspects are all around killing hostages and shooting at you with AKs and RPGs THEN you can start holding soldiers to the same level as police who write traffic tickets 95% of the day in an airconditioned squad car and get to go home to a hot meal cooked by their families.
June 30th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
for more back ground on the incident you're talking about check this page, http://www.kevinsites.net/.

about two thirds down "open letter"
June 30th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Death
There are HUUUUUGE differences between a police officer and a soldier. Don't ever hold soldiers to the same life-saving standards as the police.

When the police are trying to arrest non-citizens halfway around the world with 3 days without sleep and 2 of their best buddies killed by a mortar and hundreds of suspects are all around killing hostages and shooting at you with AKs and RPGs THEN you can start holding soldiers to the same level as police who write traffic tickets 95% of the day in an airconditioned squad car and get to go home to a hot meal cooked by their families.
I believe that Missileer was referring to deadly force incidents involving the Police. Not the total mission of the Police Vs the Military. The Missions are vastly different with different objectives and procedures.

However I will say you have very little understanding of my current occupation. I've written maybe 5 traffic summons in the last year,I've missed more than my share of home cooked meals. I have however expieranced several moments of high pucker factor while serving Narcotics Search Warrants, executing Fugitive Warrants, and responding to Shhotings Stabbings and Unknown disturbances.

While LEO work may not be the constant stress of a combat enviroment. It ain't the Cake walk you make it out to be.
July 1st, 2005  
SHERMAN
 
 
Actually, in a wqay the Police officer is in deeper sh*t, since he is to the last minute trying to save the armed moron thats trying to kil him. We are told in the Civil Guard to make a verbal warning, make a warning shot to the air, and if nessesary shoot to wound not to kill ....
July 1st, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
I believe that Missileer was referring to deadly force incidents involving the Police. Not the total mission of the Police Vs the Military. The Missions are vastly different with different objectives and procedures.

However I will say you have very little understanding of my current occupation. I've written maybe 5 traffic summons in the last year,I've missed more than my share of home cooked meals. I have however expieranced several moments of high pucker factor while serving Narcotics Search Warrants, executing Fugitive Warrants, and responding to Shhotings Stabbings and Unknown disturbances.

While LEO work may not be the constant stress of a combat enviroment. It ain't the Cake walk you make it out to be.
03USMC, great to have you back with us momentarily at least!

Sir, I would have to disagree with you because the incident in question took place during the battle for Fallujah(sp?) which truely was a hot combat zone, not an occupation scenario. I also recall that the soldier in question was suffering from sleep deprivation and combat fatigue being that this was on the thrid or fourth day of the battle and that one or two of his buddies was killed in the fighting. These are factors that police officers do not have to deal with but they are factors that soldiers have always and will always be expected to deal with. For this reason soldiers in a hot combat zones cannot be heald to the same standards as peacetime police officers back here in the states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHERMAN
Actually, in a wqay the Police officer is in deeper sh*t, since he is to the last minute trying to save the armed moron thats trying to kil him. We are told in the Civil Guard to make a verbal warning, make a warning shot to the air, and if nessesary shoot to wound not to kill ....
Oh, don't get me wrong I have generous respect for our police officers and donate regularly to a foundation that helps the families of fallen police and firemen in dallas. I also know that if the same shooting was done by an LEO here in the states against an american citizen, he should be under very strict scrutiny for his use of force.
July 1st, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHERMAN
shoot to wound not to kill ....
Dead men don't testify at grand jury hearings.