Sharia in Saudi this week

Del Boy

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Saudi Arabia under increasing global pressure to reverse sentence of 200 lashes and six months' jail for rape victim

By DAVID GARDINER - More by this author » Last updated at 22:52pm on 22nd November 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ticle_id=495560&in_page_id=1811#StartComments
Saudi Arabia was facing growing international outrage last night for sentencing a gang rape victim to 200 lashes and six months in jail.
U.S. presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton yesterday led demands for the teenager to be pardoned.
"I urge President Bush to call on King Abdullah to cancel the ruling and drop all charges against this woman," she said.
"As president I will once again make human rights an American priority around the world."

Outraged: Presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton

Canada's minister for women's issues, Jose Verger described the sentence as "barbaric" and New Zealand's prime minister Helen Clark urged the Saudis to show compassion for the teenager, who was raped by seven men.
The 19-year-old Shia Muslim's punishment was more than doubled after appealing against a judge's draconian ruling that she receive 90 lashes for breaking Islamic law on segregation of the sexes. The girl's only crime was to be in a car with a man who was not a relative.
She told the Islamic court how in March last year she went to retrieve her photograph from an ex-boyfriend because she was planning to get married.
As the teenager, who has been identified only as the Girl from Qatif (the eastern city where the rape took place last year), was in a car with the ex-boyfriend, two men hijacked the car and drove the couple to a secluded area where she was raped by seven men and her friend was attacked by three.
She was initially sentenced to 90 lashes but her lawyer appealed against the verdict, saying it was too lenient to the rapists and unjust for the victim.
Although the rapists' jail sentences were doubled to between two and nine years, the judge also increased the victim's punishment.
One reason was because her family had contacted the media to complain about her treatment. The official Saudi Press Agency said in a statement that if anybody objects to a verdict which has been issued, that person is allowed to appeal "without resorting to the media".
The teenager, who is now married, is from from the eastern city of Qatif. This week her 24-year-old husband described her as "a crushed human being".
"From the outset, my wife was dealt with as a guilty person who committed a crime," he said. "She was not given any chance to prove her innocence or describe how she was a victim of multiple brutal rapes."
He said his wife was a "quiet, simple person who does not bother anyone", and was too ill and fragile to talk about the case. "We were looking for a pardon; instead, she got double the whipping and more jail time," he said.
He was, however, careful to criticise the judge and not Saudi society, which he said was "very respectful" towards women.
The New York-based Human Rights Watch said the verdict, "not only sends victims of sexual violence the message that they should not press charges, but in effect offers protection and impunity to the perpetrators."
Last night the kingdom's judiciary stood by its decision, saying the "charges were proven" against the teenager. "The Ministry of Justice welcomes constructive criticism, away from emotions," added a spokesman.

A criminal gets a public flogging by two officials in Saudi Arabia in the late seventies. Floggings have been widely condemned in the West
The White House expressed "astonishment" at the rape victim's plight earlier this week, but stopped short of appealing for clemency. US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said: "I think that most people would find this relatively astonishing that something like this happened."
The Bush administration denied its stance had anything to do with diplomatic efforts to bring Saudi Arabia to the table at a summit aimed at reviving peace talks between Palestine and Israel.
The case is the latest to highlight the discrepancies in the way women are treated under Islamic law.
In Saudi Arabia women have to cover up and adhere to a strict dress code, they cannot drive and must get a man's permission before they can travel or have surgery.
They have no vote and cannot even testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not witnessed by a man.
Harsh punishments meted out include executions, floggings for drunkenness and the chopping off of hands and feet for crimes including adultery and rape.
 
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I know it sucks but I think we shouldn't touch these anymore. What works best in our interest is foreign governments that are friendly, cooperative and stable. We can't go off imposing our values in foreign lands and pissing off key allies abroad.
I think this woman should apply for asylum.
 
I do agree that the culture of others should not be attacked when it does not affect us, and as it happens, Saudi has responded today with a slightly different interpretation of events, in that as far as the woman is concerned, there were other infringements of their laws involved, seperate from those reported to us in previous articles.

My concern is the importation of these laws into our owncultures by quiet infiltration, which is starting to happen here on muslim domestic cases. Thin end of the wedge.
 
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In the Islamic Calendar, this is 1428.

Maybe they're just where we were 600 years ago. Nonetheless, it's rediculous. As much as I hate to say it, Clinton's right.

That doesn't make it any more likely it's going to happen mind you.

We won't touch Saudi Arabia. but the fact that we even have to do business with people like these scares me.

IRONY OF THE DAY: George Bush is invading Iraq for Democracy. One of our closest allies in the war is an absolute monarchy. And, unlike French support of the US during the American Revolution, Saudi Arabia is a lesser nation militaristically than the US.
 
The Bush administration is trying to make Iraq a democracy because to turn it into another dictatorship would be unacceptable to the American public.
 
I think what happened is just not right, but I am going to stop short of telling Saudi Arabia how to handle their internal affairs. Crap like this happens all the time some parts of the Muslim world and has been going on for hundreds of years.

The first thing that is taught to soldiers is not to look at different cultures through American values. Why is it that the US wants to impose its values on everyone? Its a big reason why so many throughout the world resent the US.
 
Yeah it is.
Human rights means very different stuff over there.
Questions about these things must arise from Muslims themselves.
 
I think what happened is just not right, but I am going to stop short of telling Saudi Arabia how to handle their internal affairs. Crap like this happens all the time some parts of the Muslim world and has been going on for hundreds of years.

The first thing that is taught to soldiers is not to look at different cultures through American values. Why is it that the US wants to impose its values on everyone? Its a big reason why so many throughout the world resent the US.

Very well said.

I have been called 'unAmerican' and 'unpatriotic' for making similar remarks on this very forum. Some people simply refuse to see the hatred to our foreign policy or even our relationship to other cultures caused by our holier-than-thou-we-are-better-then-you attitude.

All its done is piss the world off...
 
And what about the effect other cultures have on Americans? Is that not allowed to piss Americans off? Is it not allowed that that iswhat makes them hated by Americans?

Bit one way traffic, your argument, is it not?
 
This is my take. If you want to practice Sharia law in your own Islamic country. Go for it. Lop of hands ,heads, Stone em and lash em. What ever your Sharia court imposes. It's your country and if your people support it fine.

That said. Don't immigrate to another country that does not allow Sharia law and whine, cry yell oppression of Islam and demand that your rights to be tried under Sharia law out weigh the already established laws of the land.
 
I don't think any reasonable person would debate that.
There are many different kinds of ethnic groups, religions, etc. but it's only Islam that's making it hard for everyone else. We have to stop tolerating those who do not tolerate and we have to stop making people who are not a problem pay for the things that these extremist Muslims do.
Basically, doing a bomb search on a guy from Hong Kong is generally a waste of your time.
 
Because we are so concerned about the activities of the mosques here, we now are to have a great scheme - we are getting moslems to check them out regularly for us! You really have to ask - instead of what? What were they doing before?
 
I don't think any reasonable person would debate that.
There are many different kinds of ethnic groups, religions, etc. but it's only Islam that's making it hard for everyone else. We have to stop tolerating those who do not tolerate and we have to stop making people who are not a problem pay for the things that these extremist Muslims do.
Basically, doing a bomb search on a guy from Hong Kong is generally a waste of your time.

To be honest I am starting to think we are looking at the wrong people, most "western" countries already have laws about inciting violence and racial hatred etc. and I think its time we looked into why the authorities are not enforcing these laws.

As I see it if someone wants to sit in the church/mosque and preach about things contrary to the laws of the country they are in they should be arrested and either jailed or shipped back to where they come from.

Outside that I agree with both Doody and 03USMC's comments on this, I don't care what the Saudis at home, thats for them to sort out, if they are happy having bits of anatomy chopped off or wearing pup tents with eye slits then more power to them if not then they need to do something about it.
 
Whatever the position taken on what is right and wrong in the world, this is not good press for any country trying to drag a supposed ally into this century as far as human rights are concerned. This type of inhumanity is hitting the press more every day, unfortunately, while the USA is trying to maintain relations with the KSA.

Global position of atrocities against other human beings is not important, it's still animalistic to punish an innocent victim of a crime because of their gender, or any other reason for that matter. Sorry, but I just can't slide that far down the evolutionary ladder to condone such behavior for any reason.
 
As I see it if someone wants to sit in the church/mosque and preach about things contrary to the laws of the country they are in they should be arrested and either jailed or shipped back to where they come from.

Outside that I agree with both Doody and 03USMC's comments on this, I don't care what the Saudis at home, thats for them to sort out, if they are happy having bits of anatomy chopped off or wearing pup tents with eye slits then more power to them if not then they need to do something about it.


Absolutely. Just plain ol' commonsense, ain't it.

As it happens, my views re the 'evolutionary ladder' match those of Missileer, but if they are not in my face I can live with it in practice if not in principle.
 
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Whatever the position taken on what is right and wrong in the world, this is not good press for any country trying to drag a supposed ally into this century as far as human rights are concerned. This type of inhumanity is hitting the press more every day, unfortunately, while the USA is trying to maintain relations with the KSA.

Global position of atrocities against other human beings is not important, it's still animalistic to punish an innocent victim of a crime because of their gender, or any other reason for that matter. Sorry, but I just can't slide that far down the evolutionary ladder to condone such behavior for any reason.

If they have issues with it, they can apply for asylum.

And I gotta go with Monty here. I think since being loud has worked so well for these Muslims it is our turn to get loud. But of course, we'll be branded as racists if we do and probably get shot in the middle of the street during broad daylight if we do. That's the way that activist, a descendant of Vincent Van Gogh died. Made a movie about the rights of women in Islamic countries and got shot to death by a Moroccan for it.
Maybe we ought to start shooting people preaching against our own countries and our own societies. Give them a taste of their own damn medicine.
 
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