Served in the IDF . Should I be ashamed or proud ?

[Israeliveteran89]

I think the IDF is not very respected by others. The IDF soldiers are considered cowards and the IDF is not considered a powerful military .

 

[MontyB]

I think the IDF is not very respected by others. The IDF soldiers are considered cowards and the IDF is not considered a powerful military .

I am not sure what to tell you on this one, I am certainly no fan of Israel but if we are just going to talk militarily then I would suggest the IDF is well respected as a combat force and it is certainly a regional power.

As to whether you should be ashamed of your service that is really up to your conscience and actions, I can't really answer that without taring everyone with the same brush but I do not believe anyone should be ashamed of serving honorably in their nations military.

 

[MikeP]

Israel is sorely needed as an ally in that part of the world.

Don't know of any reason to disparage your military and especially your service.

Things are difficult in your world to say the least.

There was a sad incident years ago that has never been really explained and never will.

Like it it not, it is history, good or bad, those responsible are long gone and some folks need to get on with things regardless.

 

[senojekips]

Firstly, are you asking because you genuinely don't know the answer, or are you merely testing the waters to see if we know the past history of the IDF's 65 years of war crimes and atrocities committed whilst attempting to oppress a people suffering illegal occupation. If it is the first, I suggest you are the victim of the world's worst hoax, if it is the latter, you are at least 20 years too late as the world is aware of your past and present atrocities, and becoming more so every day.

It could be fairly said, that "you should be as proud as any member of the Jurgen Stroop's SS units in Warsaw, as you have been a part of their closest modern day equivalent",... beating harassing terrorising and murdering a people who are legitimately defending what is theirs, bulldozing their homes and villages and defending the building of illegal settlements on what is their land.

Watch the Youtube video " IDF Soldier Dances In Front Of Female Palestinian Prisoner!".... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxFlmXbzY3I"]YouTube[/ame] Oh sorry, you can't do that, as Youtube removed it as part of their policy against "Shocking and disgusting content".

There's plenty more, even Right wing Israelis are disgusted at the excesses of the IDF.

Israel shocked by image of soldiers forcing violinist to play at roadblock
Chris McGreal in Jerusalem

• The Guardian, Monday 29 November 2004 11.04 AEST

Of all the revelations that have rocked the Israeli army over the past week, perhaps none disturbed the public so much as the video footage of soldiers forcing a Palestinian man to play his violin.

This incident was not as shocking as the recording of an Israeli officer pumping the body of a 13-year-old girl full of bullets and then saying he would have shot her even if she had been three years old.

Nor was it as nauseating as the pictures in an Israeli newspaper of ultra-orthodox soldiers mocking Palestinian corpses by impaling a man's head on a pole and sticking a cigarette in his mouth.

But the matter of the violin touched on something deeper about the way Israelis see themselves, and their conflict with the Palestinians.
The violinist, Wissam Tayem, was on his way to a music lesson near Nablus when he said an Israeli officer ordered him to "play something sad" while soldiers made fun of him. After several minutes, he was told he could pass.
It may be that the soldiers wanted Mr Tayem to prove he was indeed a musician walking to a lesson because, as a man under 30, he would not normally have been permitted through the checkpoint.
But after the incident was videotaped by Jewish women peace activists, it prompted revulsion among Israelis not normally perturbed about the treatment of Arabs.
The rightwing Army Radio commentator Uri Orbach found the incident disturbingly reminiscent of Jewish musicians forced to provide background music to mass murder. "What about Majdanek?" he asked, referring to the Nazi extermination camp.
The critics were not drawing a parallel between an Israeli roadblock and a Nazi camp. Their concern was that Jewish suffering had been diminished by the humiliation of Mr Tayem.
Yoram Kaniuk, author of a book about a Jewish violinist forced to play for a concentration camp commander, wrote in Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper that the soldiers responsible should be put on trial "not for abusing Arabs but for disgracing the Holocaust".
"Of all the terrible things done at the roadblocks, this story is one which negates the very possibility of the existence of Israel as a Jewish state. If [the military] does not put these soldiers on trial we will have no moral right to speak of ourselves as a state that rose from the Holocaust," he wrote.
"If we allow Jewish soldiers to put an Arab violinist at a roadblock and laugh at him, we have succeeded in arriving at the lowest moral point possible. Our entire existence in this Arab region was justified, and is still justified, by our suffering; by Jewish violinists in the camps."
Others took a broader view by drawing a link between the routine dehumanising treatment of Palestinians at checkpoints, the desecration of dead bodies and what looks very much like the murder of a terrified 13-year-old Palestinian girl by an army officer in Gaza.
Israelis put great store in a belief that their army is "the most moral in the world" because it says it adheres to a code of "the purity of arms". There is rarely much public questioning of the army's routine explanation that Palestinian civilians who have been killed had been "caught in crossfire", or that children are shot because they are used as cover by fighters.
But the public's confidence has been shaken by the revelations of the past week. The audio recording of the shooting of the 13-year-old, Iman al-Hams, prompted much soul searching, although the revulsion appears to be as much at the Israeli officer firing a stream of bullets into her lifeless body as the killing itself. Some soldiers told Israeli papers that their mothers had sought assurances that they did not do that kind of thing.
One Israeli peace group, the Arik Institute, took out large newspaper adverts to plead for "Jewish patriots" to "open your eyes and look around" at the suffering of Palestinians.
The incidents prompted the army to call in all commanders from the rank of lieutenant-colonel to emphasise the importance of maintaining the "purity of arms" code.
The army's critics say the real problem is not the behaviour of soldiers on the ground but the climate of impunity that emanates from the top.
While the officer responsible for killing Iman al-Hams has been charged with relatively minor offences, and the soldiers who forced the violinist to play were ticked off for being "insensitive", the only troops who were swiftly punished for violating regulations last week were some who posed naked in the snow for a photograph. They were dismissed from their unit.
Last week the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem criticised what it described as a "culture of impunity" within the army. The group says at least 1,656 Palestinian non-combatants have been killed during the intifada, including 529 children.
"To date, one soldier has been convicted of causing the death of a Palestinian," it said.

"The combination of rules of engagement that encourage a trigger-happy attitude among soldiers together with the climate of impunity results in a clear and very troubling message about the value the Israeli military places on Palestinian life."

 

[udaka]

yes,the JEWS and Israeli are cowards absolutely, they only imtimidate the backward tribe in stone age, even the middle country like Iran can eliminate Israei .

I think the IDF is not very respected by others. The IDF soldiers are considered cowards and the IDF is not considered a powerful military .

 

[Hutchie]

How did the last wars turn out? I think the US should hire the IDF to clean out the Taliban. Be over in 6 days. I'd be proud. Who cares if some soldier danced in front of a prisoner? All the Palistinians should be marched across to the border of Egypt, left on their doorsteps as refugees. Wonder how well the Egyptians would treat them?

 

[udaka]

why the famous cospirators many are JEWS,Maxs,Eagles, may be the JEWS thinks only they are very clever, other people rest the world are very stupid, easy be cheat, But even the black they do not believe the medias control by the JEWS in US. The JEWS play very important role in political, commercial ,financial and propoganda machines of US.
JEWs took 75% proportion in first session central executive committee of Soviet communism party founded.


Do not forget this nation generated a lot of philosophers and scientists, this nation very good at thinking reasonally, JEWS are businessman naturally. Good at calculating and cheat other people are true instinct of the Jews.


Jews produced the very evil communist doctrine, making tens of millions people die at communism doctrine in the world, but Jews do not believe it completely.


No bad intention,Give a advice to JEWS-- if you continue try to cheat other race on our planet and play conspriracy. Your miserable fate must repeat again in the future.

 

[udaka]

Bascially, many guys on this forum accused the war Israeli between Arabs are bullsh!t and nonsense.

If European got so many lands on the Earth, why the JEWS and Israeli can not got a small land from Arabs?you are the Angel, ha, ha,ha ?

it is their privilige of the Israeli . Here way to go! I support them on this issue.

maybe the JEWS had been prosecuted two thousands year in Europe ! But many of them did many wrong things , only in recent 100 years. we should treat them objective.

 

[senojekips]

How did the last wars turn out? I think the US should hire the IDF to clean out the Taliban. Be over in 6 days. I'd be proud.

The Taliban gave the Russkies a touch up and they have the US forces sneaking out the back door with their tail between their legs. (The two allegedly greatest Armies in the world). They are in no hurry, they'd take their time and wipe the floor with the IDF. It would certainly make interesting reading in the papers.

Who cares if some soldier danced in front of a prisoner? All the Palistinians should be marched across to the border of Egypt, left on their doorsteps as refugees. Wonder how well the Egyptians would treat them?

Who cares? Pretty much the entire world cares with the exception of Israel and the US. It would be far easier to transport all the Israelis to the US and give them all the best parts of your country seeing you are so keen. Of course I can see where your redneck attitude comes from, US forces have been caught doing worse. Does Abu Ghraib or Extraordinary Rendition ring a bell in that solid ivory head.

You can't put brains in monuments,...

 

[MontyB]

Umm aren't we heading way off topic and down sadly familiar pathways here.

 

[senojekips]

Umm aren't we heading way off topic and down sadly familiar pathways here.

All I do is to answer those who live in their dreams..

The fact is that the IDF are responsible for so much misery and murder in the middle East that almost nothing is out of bounds.

The whole idea that a discussion around a point must lead only inwards is patently ridiculous, especially when a question has been asked. Any discussion would never get past a series of "take it or leave it" statements that would eventually just disappear up it's own fundamental orifice, totally without explanation or enlightenment.

Mankind would still be living in caves and nothing would ever have been resolved.

 

[MontyB]

All I do is to answer those who live in their dreams..

The fact is that the IDF are responsible for so much misery and murder in the middle East that almost nothing is out of bounds.

The whole idea that a discussion around a point must lead only inwards is patently ridiculous, especially when a question has been asked. Any discussion would never get past a series of "take it or leave it" statements that would eventually just disappear up it's own fundamental orifice, totally without explanation or enlightenment.

Mankind would still be living in caves and nothing would ever have been resolved.

Quite possibly but to be honest I am not sure we need another 200 page repetition fest where eveyone shouts and no one listens, personally I am more interested in the reasons behind the original question from the poster than the opinions of those I already know and can read in other threads.

 

[senojekips]

Quite possibly but to be honest I am not sure we need another 200 page repetition fest where eveyone shouts and no one listens, personally I am more interested in the reasons behind the original question from the poster than the opinions of those I already know and can read in other threads.

Well I guess that's what happens when people ask painfully stupid questions.

I willingly spent years as part of a system, stealing from, repressing and terrorising innocent men women and children in their own land, causing an upsurge in Islamic fundamentalism which is now costing the rest of the world trillions of dollars annually, (not to mention the lives of our youth and the inconvenience), should I be ashamed or proud of it"?

*Shakes head* Unfortunately some people are just beyond comprehension.

 

[brinktk]

How did the last wars turn out? I think the US should hire the IDF to clean out the Taliban. Be over in 6 days. I'd be proud. Who cares if some soldier danced in front of a prisoner? All the Palistinians should be marched across to the border of Egypt, left on their doorsteps as refugees. Wonder how well the Egyptians would treat them?

As if you know anything about "cleaning out the Taliban"...ignorance must be blissful to you. I'm being nice when I call it ignorance too.

 

[brinktk]

Israel is sorely needed as an ally in that part of the world.

Don't know of any reason to disparage your military and especially your service.

Things are difficult in your world to say the least.

There was a sad incident years ago that has never been really explained and never will.

Like it it not, it is history, good or bad, those responsible are long gone and some folks need to get on with things regardless.

Tell me again why we need Israel as an ally?

 

[senojekips]

Tell me again why we need Israel as an ally?

I know, I know,.... me, me, me,....

To unnecessarily involve the US in wars of their making, to attack your Naval vessels in an attempt to drag you into their shitefites, to hack your military and commercial secrets and sell your most secret weaponry to your enemies.

 

[brinktk]

I know, I know,.... me, me, me,....

To unnecessarily involve the US in wars of their making, to attack your Naval vessels in an attempt to drag you into their shitefites, to hack your military and commercial secrets and sell your most secret weaponry to your enemies.

Ooohhh...that's right, I forgot. Ok ok...so what you're saying is, they get to shite on whoever they choose, whenever they choose, even their allies...and we are supposed to still give them billions in aid, sell them billions in weapons, and keep the rest of the world, that would gladly bitchslap them mind you, from doing just that...all so we can have an " ally" in the Middle East.

Ok, well, with friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

[senojekips]

Ooohhh...that's right, I forgot. Ok ok...so what you're saying is, they get to shite on whoever they choose, whenever they choose, even their allies...and we are supposed to still give them billions in aid, sell them billions in weapons, and keep the rest of the world, that would gladly bitchslap them mind you, from doing just that...all so we can have an " ally" in the Middle East.

Ok, well, with friends like that, who needs enemies?

It looks very much like we have another Hasbara Troll on board.

Without a doubt, Israel is your "very best" enemy. :smile:

At least Iran would make a far more honest enemy, and possibly even quite a good friend to have in the area provided the US gave them just a little breathing room and kept largely out of their internal (religious) affairs as they do with Israel.

 

[udaka]

I think due to the JEWS are the purse of US.

Tell me again why we need Israel as an ally?

 

[udaka]

If Iran army vs IDF ,who win?( If the Israeli no assistance with US,and Iran no help,too)


some materials:

Irianian army consist of 52 million people. 450000 people in land force , navy overtake 40000 , air force and air defense forces about 30,000, 350000 reserve forces , 1.2 million militia.
Iranian own 1,700 tanks. Armored 1200 , Cannon 8000 . Air Force has 44 F-14, 65 F-4, 60 F-5 fighters, 35 Mig-29 and 30 Su-24.24 J7, 10 Mirage F1

The total IDF 175000 , 125000 land force , air force and air defense forces about 35000, Navy 12000. Reservists nearly 500000 , can mobilize 2.5 million manpower.
Israeli army own 3,600 tanks, oversee 10,000 armored. Air Force aircraft consist of 350 F-15 and F-16 , 100 AH-1 and AH-64 attack helicopter .