Served in the IDF . Should I be ashamed or proud ?

Hi Seno! You mentioned my name in your post #36. Here I am!

I never served in the IDF but I have high regards of them. No other military in the world is so closely watched and relentlessly attacked for so many years by terrorists and multiple armies than the IDF. Whether you like it or not, but the IDF is regarded as one of the best trained armies in the world.
But they do more than fighting. When typhoon Haiyan struck the Philippines the IDF send a Humanitarian Aid Team. They also were in Haiti that was hit by an earthquake. Hamas, Palestinian Jihadis, Hezbollah? Didn't care. They kill people, not save them, otherwise the Palestinians living in refugee camps in their "own country" would have a better life.
And yet the IDf still helps the Palestinian people. Each day about 400 Gazans cross the Erez crossing, most of them for medical reasons although there are 27 hospitals in Gaza. Many of the IDF soldiers can speak Arabic, so communication is not a big problem. In fact, there are IDF units where a course in Arabic is obligatory. Any "Palestinian" units learning Hebrew?

The ones who serve in the IDF can really be proud. They do what every soldier does: defend his country.
 
Hi Seno! You mentioned my name in your post #36. Here I am!

I never served in the IDF but I have high regards of them. No other military in the world is so closely watched and relentlessly attacked for so many years by terrorists and multiple armies than the IDF. Whether you like it or not, but the IDF is regarded as one of the worst armies in the world.
But they do more than fighting. When typhoon Haiyan struck the Philippines the IDF send a Humanitarian Aid Team. They also were in Haiti that was hit by an earthquake. Hamas, Palestinian Jihadis, Hezbollah? Didn't care. They kill people, not save them, otherwise the Palestinians living in refugee camps in their "own country" would have a better life.
And yet the IDf still helps the Palestinian people. Each day about 400 Gazans cross the Erez crossing, most of them for medical reasons although there are 27 hospitals in Gaza. Many of the IDF soldiers can speak Arabic, so communication is not a big problem. In fact, there are IDF units where a course in Arabic is obligatory. Any "Palestinian" units learning Hebrew?

The ones who serve in the IDF can really be proud. They do what every soldier does: defend his country.
None of which has the slightest influence that the Israelis have no Right to be there in the first place. They are the equivalent of The Nazi Einsatsgruppen.
 
I think you should be proud of the fact your questioing this.All armies do things good and bad. All a soldier is doing is being loyal to his comunity. If his comunity didn't want him serving the way he was, they wouldn't let him. Its not up to the soldier to make a decision, t is though up to him to evelaute and make decisions as a father and community member, long after his service, that does its best to stop repeating anything he would rather not of been a part of, when he served.
 
Pottsy you need a serious lesson in Military Crime and Punishment. It is up to serving members as individuals to refuse to carry our unlawful orders,.... not their superiors..

Remember, "Befehl ist Befehl", never saved anyone one at Nuremberg,.... they hung (or were shot like dogs) along with the rest.

If they would do this to General Anton Doestler for carrying our illegal orders, those below him would probably never even make it to the Court Room , as happened with so many Death's Head Camp guards.
Anton_Dostler_1945_b_zps88df1f54.jpg
 
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theres nothing to be ashamed of and idf is not weak every military had done something bad there are few bad storys about any army russia usa britan and so on in ww2 and some modern wars but it does not mean all of the soldiers are bad its not the whole army that is bad its only few stupid soldiers that make the whole army look bad



and btw you sound like a troll =.= just saying
 
If Iran army vs IDF ,who win?( If the Israeli no assistance with US,and Iran no help,too)


some materials:

Irianian army consist of 52 million people. 450000 people in land force , navy overtake 40000 , air force and air defense forces about 30,000, 350000 reserve forces , 1.2 million militia.
Iranian own 1,700 tanks. Armored 1200 , Cannon 8000 . Air Force has 44 F-14, 65 F-4, 60 F-5 fighters, 35 Mig-29 and 30 Su-24.24 J7, 10 Mirage F1

The total IDF 175000 , 125000 land force , air force and air defense forces about 35000, Navy 12000. Reservists nearly 500000 , can mobilize 2.5 million manpower.
Israeli army own 3,600 tanks, oversee 10,000 armored. Air Force aircraft consist of 350 F-15 and F-16 , 100 AH-1 and AH-64 attack helicopter .
well donno where did u got that info and i hope its not wiki but when i served in idf the number of troops and vehicles was classified we only knew the numbers that we ware told but the real number was classified :-?
 
theres nothing to be ashamed of and idf is not weak every military had done something bad there are few bad storys about any army russia usa britan and so on in ww2 and some modern wars but it does not mean all of the soldiers are bad its not the whole army that is bad its only few stupid soldiers that make the whole army look bad

That could be a direct cut and paste, from the memoirs of any member of the Nazi Einsatsgruppen. Yep, they all thought that they were innocent too,... just obeying orders, but,... It doesn't work that way,.... not even a little bit. They even built special scaffolds for them hanging as many as 10-12 at a time, that is the ones that wer not beaten to death by their past victims.

Nobody said the IDF is weak, but if we care to put it in the context of a lake, "The lake is vast, but it's not deep enough to wet the soles of your shoes". Also the fact that Israel is a postage stamp sized country makes it a target hunter's dream and on top of which it has no lasting vital resources, Steel, chromium, oil and you are surrounded by enemies who will hinder you in every way, you couldn't mount and sustain a full blown war against anyone larger than Lichtenstein and hope to last more than a few months at best. Once your stockpiles are used up you'll have two alternatives, surrender or get turned into an extension of the Sinai desert.

A nice attempt to share the blame about a bit, but we've heard it all before. So tell us which of these armies that you so willingly mentioned colonised a land belonging to another people, driving them out and beating, harassing and murdering those who resisted, creating Ghettos and treating the lawfull occupants like animals for over 65 years?.... It seems that like most of your murdering kind, you are still being spoon fed all the old Zionist Bullsh!t that was known to be false over 20 years ago.

You are going to have to put away the "I am a Victim" violin",... it's broken and has been for many years. Your lies are 20 years too late, it may have worked in the days before Internet access to the fact became so easy. When the memory of the Holocaust was still fresh in our minds.

The IDF is unlike any military force in the past, concentrating on carrying out the illegal directives of and supporting a Nazi based regime.

Haaretz said:
May 25, 2013 | 5:24 PM

BBC poll: Israel among world's least popular nations
The annual BBC World Service poll finds Germany most popular; only countries less popular than Israel are North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.

|
The world's opinion of Israel has not improved in the last year: According to BBC World Service's annual poll, Israel is one of the least

popular countries in the world; the only states less popular are North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.

The survey, conducted among 26,000 people in 25 countries, found Germany to be the most popular country. 59 percent of respondents, who were

asked to rate 16 countries according to how positively they impact the world, placed Germany at the top.

Only 21 percent of participants had a positive view on Israel, while 52 percent viewed the country unfavorably. Iran, in comparison, won the

favorable opinion of 15 percent of those who answered the survey, while 59 percent viewed it unfavorably.

In this year's poll, Germany took the place of Japan, which was downgraded to fourth place. Canada was ranked second, followed by Britain.
Apart from which we have Israel's 225 condemnatory Resolutions, (more than the next five countries put together) of the United

Nations Security Council, and the almost innumerable, Resolutions of the General Assembly about Israel's Human Rights abuses.

Your claims are sillier than those of the Chinese Troll and the fact that you can make these ridiculous claims on this forum is a sign of how stupid you must think the rest of the world is. Believe me,... you are wrong. It would seem that making very poor decisions is somewhat of an Israeli trait.
 
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Yes you really do,.... we are talking of the real world and Real Laws not what you have read in your collection of "Commando" comics. In this last case you are correct, but it has absolutely nothing to do this whether one should be Ashamed or not of serving in the IDF.

Also read up on the "Moral Imperative to not obey illegal orders. Or haven't you read that far yet.

Stick to the thread subject, and if you wish to start a tread on the Yanks in Fallujah feel free but do not try to muddy the waters in this thread.
 
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And tell me what connection there is between the video you posted, and the subject being discussed.

The video was about the attrocities in Fallujah, surely the soldiers thier and all the armies that have served with them, you hold them to the same morals right?
 
The video was about the attrocities in Fallujah, surely the soldiers thier and all the armies that have served with them, you hold them to the same morals right?

I apologise for changing my post in mid stream,But I had the distinct impression at this thread was about whether somebody should be ashamed or proud of having served in the IDF? and your weird answer really threw me and I decided my answer needed to be changed.
My memory is not always 100% but could you please explain to me the part IDF members played in the battle for Fallujah?

As I said in my previous post (edit), it is expected that your answers are fitting to the subject being discussed. If,... and only if,... parts of this video you have posted can be substantiated, I agree wholeheartedly with you, but not in a thread regarding the pros and cons of having been an IDF member. If you wish to change the subject please start another thread.

My initial "go at you" was bought about by your idea that the discussion on this matter was a "good idea". It's a bit like having a discussion on the pros and cons of child molestation, wife beating and other such related crimes, there are actually no "two sides" to the argument, it is open and shut, if you wish to become a member of a force that supports an illegal regime, that has been dispossessing, harassing, beating and murdering the legitimate owners of a land for 65 years, you have no right to any pride in that fact, or more to the point if you are proud of it, you are one of the lowest scum on earth.
 
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That could be a direct cut and paste, from the memoirs of any member of the Nazi Einsatsgruppen. Yep, they all thought that they were innocent too,... just obeying orders, but,... It doesn't work that way,.... not even a little bit. They even built special scaffolds for them hanging as many as 10-12 at a time, that is the ones that wer not beaten to death by their past victims.

Nobody said the IDF is weak, but if we care to put it in the context of a lake, "The lake is vast, but it's not deep enough to wet the soles of your shoes". Also the fact that Israel is a postage stamp sized country makes it a target hunter's dream and on top of which it has no lasting vital resources, Steel, chromium, oil and you are surrounded by enemies who will hinder you in every way, you couldn't mount and sustain a full blown war against anyone larger than Lichtenstein and hope to last more than a few months at best. Once your stockpiles are used up you'll have two alternatives, surrender or get turned into an extension of the Sinai desert.

A nice attempt to share the blame about a bit, but we've heard it all before. So tell us which of these armies that you so willingly mentioned colonised a land belonging to another people, driving them out and beating, harassing and murdering those who resisted, creating Ghettos and treating the lawfull occupants like animals for over 65 years?.... It seems that like most of your murdering kind, you are still being spoon fed all the old Zionist Bullsh!t that was known to be false over 20 years ago.

You are going to have to put away the "I am a Victim" violin",... it's broken and has been for many years. Your lies are 20 years too late, it may have worked in the days before Internet access to the fact became so easy. When the memory of the Holocaust was still fresh in our minds.

The IDF is unlike any military force in the past, concentrating on carrying out the illegal directives of and supporting a Nazi based regime.

Apart from which we have Israel's 225 condemnatory Resolutions, (more than the next five countries put together) of the United

Nations Security Council, and the almost innumerable, Resolutions of the General Assembly about Israel's Human Rights abuses.

Your claims are sillier than those of the Chinese Troll and the fact that you can make these ridiculous claims on this forum is a sign of how stupid you must think the rest of the world is. Believe me,... you are wrong. It would seem that making very poor decisions is somewhat of an Israeli trait.
i didnt say that whole idf is inocent i said that every army has its bad soldiers in my service i saw only twice where soldier treated others bad and both of them was by border patrol and i assure u soldiers that ware cought doing it ware punished i love how ppl hate on idf make them the devils army and everytime idf troop goes to stop riot or something they edit it like we beat ppl up i was in few riots and it was really annoyng that it made us look like we ware beating them up sure there was also this high ranked officer who went ape **** on ppl on riot and he got punished for it and there are alot more incidents where soldiers behave the way that they should not and they get punished for it and we are also well aware to what orders to obey we can refuse orders that are not lawful we are not robots and just like idf avery military has bad soldiers u can just google bad storys about any military and im sure u will find planty and im not a jew or very patriotic person but if u live in the country it is ur duty to protect it and its really annoyng that most of the world thinks that we just go and beat ppl up for fun or shoot at kids
 
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i didnt say that whole idf is inocent i said that every army has its bad soldiers in my service i saw only twice where soldier treated others bad and both of them was by border patrol and i assure u soldiers that ware cought doing it ware punished i love how ppl hate on idf make them the devils army and everytime idf troop goes to stop riot or something they edit it like we beat ppl up i was in few riots and it was really annoyng that it made us look like we ware beating them up sure there was also this high ranked officer who went ape **** on ppl on riot and he got punished for it and there are alot more incidents where soldiers behave the way that they should not and they get punished for it and we are also well aware to what orders to obey we can refuse orders that are not lawful we are not robots and just like idf avery military has bad soldiers u can just google bad storys about any military and im sure u will find planty and im not a jew or very patriotic person but if u live in the country it is ur duty to protect it and its really annoyng that most of the world thinks that we just go and beat ppl up for fun or shoot at kids
Oh,.... we already know you allow mothers and sick people to die from lack of medical help at illegal"checkpoints" while you stand around an laugh,... and shoot children for target practice.

No IDF member has ever received a just punishment for his crimes. In fact the very term, "The IDF are investigating" has become a euphemism for the fact that the matter will be swept under the carpet, or the criminal will receive only a ridiculously light token sentence. I challenge you to show me different.

Only in December the IDF murdered a 14 year old schoolboy on his way to school.
Dec. 9th. 2013. Source: http://digitaljournal.com/article/363604
A Palestinian child walking home from school was reportedly shot and killed by an Israeli sniper in the illegally-occupied West Bank on Saturday.
Haaretz reports accounts differ as to the events that led to the shooting of Wajih Wajdi al-Ramahi, whose age has been reported as 14 or 15 by various Israeli and Palestinian media sources.
According to Palestine's Ma'an News Agency, al-Ramahi was shot in the back by an Israeli sniper as he walked home from school near the al-Jalazun (Jalazone) refugee camp on Saturday. Family members are calling the boy's killing an "execution" and "assassination in cold blood."
"The Israeli sniper shot my son as if he hunted a bird," the slain child's father told reporters.
Locals claimed the shooting was unprovoked and that there "were no clashes or any kind of rock-throwing incidents" when the sniper shot al-Ramahi.

Despite its overwhelming military superiority, Israel has responded to stone-throwing youth by arresting and torturing them, ordering their bones broken and sometimes by killing them.
These are your "honourable" military, They are the scum of the earth, they make the skin crawl on any "real" man.

Stop being a mealy mouthed coward, trying to make excuses for yourself. You are all guilty by association, just as if you were living in Nazi Germany and joined their army which you knew were suppressing German Jews and committing war crimes. The fact that you state you are not even Jewish makes it even worse, you are in fact the direct equivalent of John Walker Lindh (now serving 25 years) an American who did choose to join the Taliban.

You willingly joined a known Criminal organisation set up the steal from, beat, harass and murder innocent people. You agreed to obey their orders, and in doing so supported the world's fourth most despised regime, only ahead of Iran, Pakistan and North Korea. Don't even bother trying to tell us it's not a criminal organisation as it's war Crimes have been accurately documented. Just so you can get some idea, I'll list a few of Israel's refusals to obey International law. There are a lot, lot more,... many of them including multiple other offences.
Internationallawresourcecenter said:
[SIZE=+2]STUDY GUIDE : International Law & Israel[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Israeli Violations[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Israeli Violations of International Law :[/SIZE] [SIZE=+2]CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL (1947-1954)*[/SIZE]

  • 1. ILLEGAL ACQUISITION OF LAND BY FORCE: Israel annexes land occupied by force during 1948 war (lands external to those given by the UN partition plan) (laws & principles violated, international response).
  • 2. FORBIDDING CIVILIANS THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMES FOLLOWING THE END OF ARMED CONFLICT: Israeli government enacts laws, and employs its military to keep aproximately 750,000 Palestinian Arab civilians from returning to their homes following the end of fighting both in 1948 and in the occupied territories in 1967. Israel then violates UN resolutions ordering them to respect Palestinian's right to return to their homes (laws & principles violated, international response).
  • 3. ILLEGAL POPULATION TRANSFER: Israel settles Israeli citizens in hundreds of Israeli settlements on occupied land not originally given to them in the UN Partition Plan (laws & principles violated, international response).
  • 5. DESTRUCTION OF HOLY PLACES, AND INTERFERING WITH MINISTERS OF RELIGION PERFORMING THEIR RELIGIOUS DUTIES: Israeli forces have destroyed Muslim holy places, and interfered with the religious work of Muslim Imams (ministers) (laws & principles violated, international response).
  • 7. ILLEGAL PRACTICE OF COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT: Israel repeatedly practices collective punishment against Palestinian acts of rebellion wherein an entire community is punished for the actions of a few (laws & principles violated, international response).​
    *NOTE: Despite its unfairness to the Palestinian people, the UN Partition Plan itself cannot be listed as a violation of international law because it was adopted by the UN General Assembly according to correct UN procedures. This plan was unfair to the Palestinian people because it gave more than 1/2 of their land (55%) away to a foreign party (the Zionist groups from Europe), who were a minority in the area at the time (16% of the population), and who owned at that time only about 6% of the land, and it was imposed on them against their will.​
  • There is plenty more if you want it?
 
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