Seoul Seeks to Deploy Apaches in 2012

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Seoul Seeks to Deploy Apaches in 2012

By Jung Sung-ki
Staff Reporter

The Ministry of National Defense is seeking to introduce a first batch of 18 refurbished U.S. Apache helicopters in 2012 when South Korea takes over wartime operational control of its troops from the U.S. military, a source said Wednesday.

The minsitry could buy an additional batch of older Apaches, dubbed MIMEX, in 2014 to bring the total number of the high-tech U.S. attack helicopters flown by the Korean Army to 36, said the source privy to negotiations.

This is the first time that Seoul's timeline for deploying U.S. Apaches in the field has been revealed. The move has drawn attention as it comes amid growing public jitters here over a possible security vacuum following the U.S. military's planned pullout of an Apache battalion from South Korea in March for rotational deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan this fall.

According to the source, officials from Seoul's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) may meet soon with the U.S. Army's Apache program managers and representatives of the Joint U.S. Military Affairs Group-Korea (JUSMAG-K) to discuss the issue.

``I heard from the U.S. government today that DAPA's international product team is receptive to the U.S. Army Apache program manager meeting with DAPA and also with JUSMAG-K soon, and that there is strong interest in 18 MIMEX in 2012 and 18 more in 2014,'' the source told The Korea Times, requesting not to be identified.

The DAPA is interested in Apache Block II models modified from the first Block I standard, he said, adding the U.S. government may want Apache maker Boeing to do the upgrade.

The source, however, noted that the agency appears to be ``still keeping all options open,'' including the introduction of the up-to-date AH-64D Apache Longbow Block III model through a commercial deal with Boeing, given the proposed refurbishment would cost more than buying new ones.

``I'm sure the ROK Army wants the latest and greatest, but also wants capability fast. It also must be affordable. These are the issues,'' he said.

In a related development, a government official said, the DAPA will start a feasibility study soon on the introduction of Apache helicopters. The agency will commission the study to a local defense institute this month, he said.

The envisaged study will deal with every option regarding the acquisition of Apaches, including a government-to-government foreign military sales (FMS) program and a commercial deal with Boeing, said the official.

Also on the agenda for the study would be price, delivery timing, and technology transfer for South Korea's pursuit of building indigenous, medium-light attack helicopters under the Korea Attack Helicopter (KAH) program, he added.

The Seoul government will make a final decision on Apaches and deliver it to the U.S. government by August for a possible contract to be sealed next year, according to the official.

To help boost the Army's independent anti-tank and fire support capabilities after the wartime control transition, South Korea has pushed to buy the older U.S. heavy attack helicopters, separately from the KAH project aimed at building an indigenous attack helicopter with technological support from foreign helicopter manufacturers.

Last year, South Korea proposed that the U.S. government sell 36 older Apaches through FMS, with a total price tag of 1 trillion won, to replace the Army's aging Cobra attack choppers, according to sources.

The AH-64D Apache Longbow is an all-weather, day-night military attack helicopter. Its armament includes a 30mm M230 Chain Gun, AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missiles, AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles and Hydra 70 laser-guided rockets.

The U.S. Forces Korea (USFK) maintains two Apache battalions here to help prevent North Korean special forces from infiltrating the South by sea and prevent the North Korean army's armored units crossing the military demarcation line in the case of an outbreak of war.

On Tuesday, the USFK announced that it would temporarily deploy 12 F-16 fighters, instead of the previously announced ``tank killer'' A-10 jets, to South Korea to replace a departing battalion of 24 Apaches.

The ``flip-flop'' announcement has caused a controversy over a possible security gap on the peninsula because of the different mission capabilities between Apaches and F-16s.

Experts say F-16s are outstanding performers but are not suitable for conducting low-flying missions against enemy tanks.

Link
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/01/205_37859.html
 
I think they should wait a bit longer and get the new T129. Comparable capabilities at half the price.

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That'd make sure that the Turks will go with the Dokdo class LPD. :m1:
 
Price

Hey Lunatik
Can you give a rundown on price and spec's?
Can the T129 data link into other Turkish platform?
Can Turkey export this fine looking helicopter?

Thanks
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What helicopter does Greece have in this class?
What helicopter does Iran have in this class?
 
Hey Lunatik
Can you give a rundown on price and spec's?
Can the T129 data link into other Turkish platform?
Can Turkey export this fine looking helicopter?

Thanks
icon14.gif


What helicopter does Greece have in this class?
What helicopter does Iran have in this class?


That's a new Mangusta version afaik.

Iran has a couple of AH-1 Cobra early models, flight readiness questionable.
 
Cobra's

Thanks for jarring my memory Sven Ortmann, I knew Iran had Cobra's I remember reading a long time ago about Cobra vs Hinds battles. Not sure how much of the battles were true.

It was an interesting war on some levels but difficult believing all the claims made by both sides. Tanks battles, F-14s shooting down hundreds of Iraqi fighters, etc. I wish there was a way to confirm some of the battle claims made.

I was never impressed with Iraqi's armed forces period poorly trained and poorly led. To me and I may be wrong but I think they might have had an slight edge equipment wise and couldn't do anything with it. And Iran couldn't take out Iraq so that's not saying much for Iran either.

At times it seems like neither side wanted to win I know that sounds strange but eight years of fighting and nobody got better. Its almost like neither side wanted the extra land it knew it would have to fight for to keep it.

Sometimes I think both governments use the war to keep the people focus outward and not inward, if that makes sense.
 
Hey Lunatik
Can you give a rundown on price and spec's?
Can the T129 data link into other Turkish platform?
Can Turkey export this fine looking helicopter?

Thanks
icon14.gif


What helicopter does Greece have in this class?
What helicopter does Iran have in this class?
Hi Rock,

As Sven pointed out, T129 is a heavily modified/improved attack helicopter based on Mangusta; 51 (+40 Optional) to be built in Turkey with Turkish subsystems & weapons. It's a $3 billion program involving full tech transfer and the exclusive right to sell the new configuration to 3rd countries. Since it's not an off the shelf purchase it'd not make a lot sense to compare unit prices at this time, but unit cost is currently estimated to be $63 million. It will feature 20-25% increased power (better speed/flight ceiling/loadout weight) with the introduction of the LHTEC T800 engines, which powered the US Commanche helicopter. It will carry cutting-edge guided missiles (like Turkish indigenous UMTAS LR anti-tank, Hellfire 2, Spike ER, Stinger, etc), an advanced millimeter-band mast radar (like Apache's Longbow), helmet mounted cueing system, Aselsan FLIR, a 20mm 3-barrel gatling type cannon, Roketsan Cirit laser-guided rockets, etc etc.

AFAIK, its flight computer and communication systems are to be manufactured by Aselsan, which produces pretty much all of Turkish military's communciations and C4I equipment along with Havelsan & Mikes. So I'm guessing it'll be backward compatible and interoperatable with the existing data networks and platforms. Turkey's Cobras and SuperCobras are getting very old, and this new Mangusta deal with Italy seems very profitable, especially if Turkey can manage to sell the T129 to customers in its own sphere of influence and/or allies.

Greece has about 20 Apaches, 8 of which are D config with Longbow radar masts. I think Iran too has a number of old Cobras.

Helicopter to Helicopter warfare is a rare occurance though. T129 will mainly play anti-terrorism, CAS and anti-armor roles, thogh it can carry up to 4 Stingers for AAW too.
 
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T129

Hi Lunatik
I think this is great for Turkey and there might be a market share to slip into if this can come under in price then the Tiger or Apache. Russia still can't get either the KA-52 or Mi-28N into production so there might be markets in South America or Africa looking to replace their 20 year old Hind's.
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