Second largest FORCE in Iraq.

ozmilman

Active member
It's private contractors! They are everywhere and they are making a mint because the danger pay over there for security personel is enormous.

Recently two men i know, with years of military, security, weapons, and martial arts experience have quit the army and gone over to Iraq to do private contracting. These men are going to end up so rich that they are probably going to be able to retire when/if they come back from there.

I know it's a dirty word, but they're mercenaries - so what do we think of mercenaries here? If you think of them as private security personel then it isn't so bad. Does anyone here know anyone whose gone off to do private contracting?

Rich.
 
Contracting

No, I don't. But I have considered it myself. With four children, the risk is too great to volunteer. A hefty combat-zone pay does me no good dead.
 
Smart decision!

I don't think its wrong, aslong as its voulenteer, never seen anything like it thats not but you never know.
 
Mercenries are great! Mercenries get a really bad rap due to fear of them switching sides, but mercenries have proven themselves over and over in human history as important parts of a war effort.

I think Mercenries are perfect for many lower intensity conflicts that national armies are unwilling to do. Case-in-point Africa. The UN armies have proven themselves to be next to useless. In the case of something like the Rawandan genocides, why not send a professional mercenary force to stop the genocide? At least that's what I think.
 
The UN knows it's useless, but it's not willing to spent millions of dollars paying mercenaries to do their job.

Rich.
 
hmmmm funny, i had never thought of them as mercs.....but of course that EXACTLY what they are.

i have an american friend that i chat to from time to time, he's going back asa contracter...and will be able to retire when he gets back


but does this cause any resentment for servicemen in iraq on regular army pay?
 
I'd imagine that it would cause a great deal of resentment because these 'civilians' are coming in and doing pretty much a military job and getting paid, what, twice, three times more? Maybe ten times more? I don't know much about danger pay for the military.

Rich.
 
After reading this I deleted it since it seemed like a flame and wasnt to come across as one lol. I do disagree on the merc claim though since contactors are hiring truck drivers with experience also. :)
 
there are many "contractors" that are just driving trucks, serving food etc, but i guess the main part we were talking about was those who are serving as body guards etc.
 
Who said there were Mercs working in Iraq??? As yet I am unaware of the name of any such group. There are people working for companies as security and protection advisors and so on. They are contracted to provide the protection that the military should not be responsible for to ensure the running of their companies.

PS. The Australian soldiers in Iraq get paid very well.
 
but does this cause any resentment for servicemen in iraq on regular army pay?

I think the only resentment (in regards to the Australian army), is that the guys still in Australia resent how much the blokes in Iraq are getting. They walk away with a very hefty pay cheque after their rotation.

Who said there were Mercs working in Iraq???
I think a lot of people don't understand the difference between a security contractor and a mercenary.

Is a bouncer at a pub a mercenary? No.
Are the security agents who protect Prime Ministers/Presidents/Ambassadors etc mercs? No

So why call guys who do the same thing for oil execs mercs? Just because a lot of them are ex-servicemen?
 
I was there for 14 months ending late last year as a civilian contractor but doing comms. I lived and worked "outside the wire" and had no provisions for private security, other than what I could do for myself. As the saying goes, Marines know how to improvise, overcome and adapt hence I "procured" my own arsenal and became acquanted with some trusted Iraqis. Although I may have at times resembled a security guy, I certainly wasn't a merc. Was I prepared to fill the billet? Absolutely!

Regarding the scope of contract jobs - you name it, they're hiring. The misconception is that mercs fill all these jobs, which distorts the numbers and couldn't be farther from the truth. I would estimate that the security force is relatively small overall and, as a side-note, most seemd to be Brits, Aussies, S. Africans or Gherkas.

In general, all the contract jobs are what the military doesn't fill anymore. This should hardly seem offensive to any military person since it doesn't encroach on the military role which is to win battles. As for security, I can assure you, it's not civilians guarding the embassy in Baghdad and, other than this, I'm not aware of any other requirements for the Armed Services to guard US interests in foreign countries.

Regarding pay, you get paid according to their job skills and the associated hazard premium. Will anyone retire in riches? Very few if any. A simple thing that I've learned over the years, is the more money you make, the more that is spent. Making more money doesn't necessarily improve quality of life. I'll say that spouses back home haver an effect on this and will just leave it at that.

Regarding cooperation and relations between the troops and the civies, I remembered where I came from and recognized the comparative hardships that the military had while I was there. If I didn't shake their hands simply to recognize them, I made it a point to make sure that they could experience some normalcy whether it was buying cell phones, or buying them a barbeque. It would have been nice if I had heard more of this going on, but I unfortunately didn't. Perhaps this may contribute to hard feelings - I don't know. But, considering how I plugged into the situation, I always knew that I had a great bunch of guys that would cover my 6, an I believe that they knew that I would also be there for them as well.

Semper fi
Bill
 
Well, i guess the people that protect the PM here are actually men who work for the government agencies, and bouncers go and do a security course to work as bouncers - so they have specific roles.

The Macquarie Dictionary describes a Mercenary as:

"1. working or acting merely for gain 2. hired (now only of soldiers serving in a foreign army 3. a professional soldier serving in a foreign army 4. any hireling."

Yeah i'd pretty much say that 'Private Contractor' is the new political term for mercs.

Rich.
 
ozmilman said:
Well, i guess the people that protect the PM here are actually men who work for the government agencies, and bouncers go and do a security course to work as bouncers - so they have specific roles.

The Macquarie Dictionary describes a Mercenary as:

"1. working or acting merely for gain 2. hired (now only of soldiers serving in a foreign army 3. a professional soldier serving in a foreign army 4. any hireling."

Yeah i'd pretty much say that 'Private Contractor' is the new political term for mercs.

Rich.

Using that definition anyone working anywhere but in their own country is a mercenary, for example Philippine nanny's working in Saudi Arabia qualify under two sections of that definition..1. working or acting merely for gain and 4. any hireling. which as you can see is patently ludicrous.

My opinion is that private contractors carrying out non-military tasks in Iraq are not mercenaries.
 
I'm sure the words SOLDIER and ARMY appeared in that description at least twice each. There was definately a MILITARY ring about the definition.

If you're armed, you work through a Firm that deals with "Private Contracting" for security or military reasons, you have no ties to the person/place/business/people/country you're protecting, and you are being payed for armed protection - then you are, by definition and trade, what WAS commonly referred to as a Mercenary, and is NOW known as a "Private Contractor".

That goes for bountry hunters, ex-soldiers fighting for a foreign power, bodyguards etc etc etc.

The point of the thread was not to debate what is and is not a merc, it was that "Private Contractors" are the second largest force in Iraq.

Rich.
 
im sure that there are private contrators who have served as mercenaries at sometime, or have contacts in that industry when a job comes up. Just not all of them are mercinaries.
I am aware of a company however that recruits discharged Gurkha's as bodyguards. Gurkha Security Guards Ltd. I pretty sure they are operating in Iraq
 
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