Second largest FORCE in Iraq. - Page 2




 
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June 24th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
the point that was made was that armed contractors are merc in everything but name.
June 25th, 2005  
ozmilman
 
Yep, i do believe that point was made pretty clearly - sorry if i upset anyone.

Rich.
June 25th, 2005  
AussieNick
 
Quote:

but does this cause any resentment for servicemen in iraq on regular army pay?
I think the only resentment (in regards to the Australian army), is that the guys still in Australia resent how much the blokes in Iraq are getting. They walk away with a very hefty pay cheque after their rotation.

Quote:
Who said there were Mercs working in Iraq???
I think a lot of people don't understand the difference between a security contractor and a mercenary.

Is a bouncer at a pub a mercenary? No.
Are the security agents who protect Prime Ministers/Presidents/Ambassadors etc mercs? No

So why call guys who do the same thing for oil execs mercs? Just because a lot of them are ex-servicemen?
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June 25th, 2005  
MarineGtoACommo
 
I was there for 14 months ending late last year as a civilian contractor but doing comms. I lived and worked "outside the wire" and had no provisions for private security, other than what I could do for myself. As the saying goes, Marines know how to improvise, overcome and adapt hence I "procured" my own arsenal and became acquanted with some trusted Iraqis. Although I may have at times resembled a security guy, I certainly wasn't a merc. Was I prepared to fill the billet? Absolutely!

Regarding the scope of contract jobs - you name it, they're hiring. The misconception is that mercs fill all these jobs, which distorts the numbers and couldn't be farther from the truth. I would estimate that the security force is relatively small overall and, as a side-note, most seemd to be Brits, Aussies, S. Africans or Gherkas.

In general, all the contract jobs are what the military doesn't fill anymore. This should hardly seem offensive to any military person since it doesn't encroach on the military role which is to win battles. As for security, I can assure you, it's not civilians guarding the embassy in Baghdad and, other than this, I'm not aware of any other requirements for the Armed Services to guard US interests in foreign countries.

Regarding pay, you get paid according to their job skills and the associated hazard premium. Will anyone retire in riches? Very few if any. A simple thing that I've learned over the years, is the more money you make, the more that is spent. Making more money doesn't necessarily improve quality of life. I'll say that spouses back home haver an effect on this and will just leave it at that.

Regarding cooperation and relations between the troops and the civies, I remembered where I came from and recognized the comparative hardships that the military had while I was there. If I didn't shake their hands simply to recognize them, I made it a point to make sure that they could experience some normalcy whether it was buying cell phones, or buying them a barbeque. It would have been nice if I had heard more of this going on, but I unfortunately didn't. Perhaps this may contribute to hard feelings - I don't know. But, considering how I plugged into the situation, I always knew that I had a great bunch of guys that would cover my 6, an I believe that they knew that I would also be there for them as well.

Semper fi
Bill
June 26th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
nice post bill, thanks for the info!
June 26th, 2005  
ozmilman
 
Well, i guess the people that protect the PM here are actually men who work for the government agencies, and bouncers go and do a security course to work as bouncers - so they have specific roles.

The Macquarie Dictionary describes a Mercenary as:

"1. working or acting merely for gain 2. hired (now only of soldiers serving in a foreign army 3. a professional soldier serving in a foreign army 4. any hireling."

Yeah i'd pretty much say that 'Private Contractor' is the new political term for mercs.

Rich.
June 26th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmilman
Well, i guess the people that protect the PM here are actually men who work for the government agencies, and bouncers go and do a security course to work as bouncers - so they have specific roles.

The Macquarie Dictionary describes a Mercenary as:

"1. working or acting merely for gain 2. hired (now only of soldiers serving in a foreign army 3. a professional soldier serving in a foreign army 4. any hireling."

Yeah i'd pretty much say that 'Private Contractor' is the new political term for mercs.

Rich.
Using that definition anyone working anywhere but in their own country is a mercenary, for example Philippine nanny's working in Saudi Arabia qualify under two sections of that definition..1. working or acting merely for gain and 4. any hireling. which as you can see is patently ludicrous.

My opinion is that private contractors carrying out non-military tasks in Iraq are not mercenaries.
June 27th, 2005  
ozmilman
 
I'm sure the words SOLDIER and ARMY appeared in that description at least twice each. There was definately a MILITARY ring about the definition.

If you're armed, you work through a Firm that deals with "Private Contracting" for security or military reasons, you have no ties to the person/place/business/people/country you're protecting, and you are being payed for armed protection - then you are, by definition and trade, what WAS commonly referred to as a Mercenary, and is NOW known as a "Private Contractor".

That goes for bountry hunters, ex-soldiers fighting for a foreign power, bodyguards etc etc etc.

The point of the thread was not to debate what is and is not a merc, it was that "Private Contractors" are the second largest force in Iraq.

Rich.
June 29th, 2005  
Bory
 
 
im sure that there are private contrators who have served as mercenaries at sometime, or have contacts in that industry when a job comes up. Just not all of them are mercinaries.
I am aware of a company however that recruits discharged Gurkha's as bodyguards. Gurkha Security Guards Ltd. I pretty sure they are operating in Iraq
June 29th, 2005  
AlexKall
 
Here's a series of videos regarding this (kind of):

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...warriors/view/