Second Australian VC awarded in Afghanistan.

LeMask said:
Charging machine gun nests is one thing, but you know that machine guns make a lot of noise and that the machine gunner can lose their situational awareness easily. A single man can easily sneak on their position and flank them...

A single man can easily flank multiple unaware machine gunners... It takes some skills, some bravery for sure. But it's not yet the heroic action of the century.
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Hey check this out Gunny! :shock:

Everything you have taught us is ****ing wrong. We have a military genius who will tell us how to attack a machine gun position.

While I remember it, get the lieutenant, he also needs to learn it.

LeMask, call this number (703) -545-6700 and tell them how to do it.
 
LeMask said:
Well, I'm lost then... I wonder how things go usually in combat.
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With my very limited and second hand knowledge, i would say that there is the source of your confusion. From what I've heard there is little or nothing that could be regarded as "usual" in front line combat and even less so when it comes down to extreme close quarters and hand to hand action, as was the case here.
 
brinktk said:
Ahem...What's this supposed to mean..?
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Sir, the Corporal was trying to be sarcastic, Sir
The remark was not directed at you, sir, I'm sure you're a fine Officer.

Yes, I managed to make an ass out of myself again. Now you know why they call me Oddball.
I´ll drop down and give you one hundred!

Sir. :salute2:
 
Very impressive! :salute2:

And daym, that was one HUGE soldier..... :lol:
 
Oddball said:
Sir, the Corporal was trying to be sarcastic, Sir
The remark was not directed at you, sir, I'm sure you're a fine Officer.

Yes, I managed to make an ass out of myself again. Now you know why they call me Oddball.
I´ll drop down and give you one hundred!

Sir. :salute2:
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Cute...but easy on the sirs...and no push ups necessary. I'm still just trying to work for a living...even though I am an O-1...E.
 
I didn't think it was possible to that much **** between ears as some people here have got. The man is a plain and outright hero. You don't get awarded the VC for anything less and I cannot believe that some ******** like you has the balls to question it from behind a keyboard. I am sure your comments would be different if this great man was towering over you.
 
Spartan613 said:
I read today, that at one point in the battle; a Taliban jumped up on this guys back (he's 6'7" tall) and the Corporal threw the Taliban off on to the ground, put his boot on the Talib's throat, and shot him in the head. Nice!
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^^ guess it's what you call making a point............ :lol:

Magnificent effort on the part of these soldiers............ Even more impressive is that they accomplish these feats as part of their job, not as a conscious effort or expectation of reward.... :salute:
 
SigJohnson said:
I didn't think it was possible to that much **** between ears as some people here have got. The man is a plain and outright hero. You don't get awarded the VC for anything less and I cannot believe that some ******** like you has the balls to question it from behind a keyboard. I am sure your comments would be different if this great man was towering over you.
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^ ^ Amen!

Wow! I´m sure that the Taliban has **** ther pants when they saw that big mountain coming towards them. Nice job well done.:salute2:
 
Oddball said:
Sir, the Corporal was trying to be sarcastic, Sir
The remark was not directed at you, sir, I'm sure you're a fine Officer.

Yes, I managed to make an ass out of myself again. Now you know why they call me Oddball.
I´ll drop down and give you one hundred!

Sir. :salute2:
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I think that you just managed to make an ass out of yourself one more time :p

BTW. like your avatar.
 
Oddball, sure I will tell them... If you havent figured out how to disable a machine gun... The all knowing civy that I am will tell you how to do your job...

Machine guns are heavy, noisy, smelly and nearly blind when shooting... They also hurt a lot... But they shoot only in front of their canon...

So all you have to do... Is to duck, throw indirect fire at them. Or to attack them from the flank when they are busy lighting up your buddies...

Please, be fast, or your buddies may not last, and then the machine gun will turn in your direction... And it will be your turn.

Now, RUN AND SPREAD THE WORD OF WISDOM !!!!

Seehund, no way I'm joining for that... I might get killed.

P.S: If you ban firearms and start waging war with swords, I might join...

SigJohnson, your fascist rhetoric isnt working on me... And the day you will have brains to question everything you hear, then come and tell me about it...
I'm not the idiot that swallows everything... Do you have a problem with that?

Do I have to say "amen" to everything you throw at me? What gives you the right? And you smartass should thank god that I'm behind my computer. You are here acting like a superior human being, treating people like crap... With all due respect, go to hell. You dont know me buddy...

My position here is simple: The description of the actions we had here arent "extremely impressive". Maybe it's a huge event. But I dont see it in this description. My right. And I dont care if you dont like it...

And I can give any man on earth the correction of his life... You and your new god included. There is no superior race on earth so stop speaking like a Nazi...

There is kids in Africa holding guns... They kill people much bigger than them. It's all about luck. Some have better odds... That's about it.

The real difference between a man and another is his moral values. And you sir have none. Keep acting all elite... I know scum when I see some...
 
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I still have my head.

But I like to shake things a little... They want to shut me up by acting like jerks, I can be a jerk too.

Some guys are like holy cows in India... They think they are allowed to do whatever they want...
 
LeMask said:
I still have my head.

But I like to shake things a little... They want to shut me up by acting like jerks, I can be a jerk too.

Some guys are like holy cows in India... They think they are allowed to do whatever they want...
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I think the problem is that you come off as preaching. Like you know better than any of us what is necessary in a situation like this...and the fact of the matter is that you really don't. You make it sound entirely too easy to take out a machine gun, let alone three. Alls these guys are trying to point out is that your arguments are baseless because you have no practical experience...I mean, would you ever tell a professional pitcher how to throw a baseball better?...probably not. Or, would you ever tell a physicist how to calculate formulas dealing with quantum mechanics?...no. The military members on here are all professionals in the science of warfare, we have been trained as rigorously as any professional athlete or specialist in their respective fields. Many of us simply don't like it when someone who is not aquainted with the realities of our profession tells us how our profession should be done.
 
brinktk, yeah, I sound like a preacher sometimes... But it's not the case. I know that I have a very limited knowledge...

But their reactions are negative. When someone says something I believe false, I explain and give arguments. And the more expert I'm on the topic, the more comprehensive I can be... (I get angry when its another expert)

The reactions I get here are the total opposite, they answer only with agression/name calling/insults... It's "think like me or I will be a jerk."

I never said anything about easy... It's not easy to take out a machine gun unless you are maybe in a tank and still...
But are they giving medals for that? This seems like combat... Just combat...

And they didnt tell me "believe my expertise, this is medal material because..." No explanations, they dont even have any tolerance for doubts and questions...

And I'm sorry, but experts learn to deal with non-experts.

And I have to add that soldiers and the military as a whole arent yet authorities we dont question.

We dont question a pilot for his knowledge about aircrafts... We dont question a mechanic about his knowledge about mechanics, we dont question an armorer about proper gun maintenance skills etc etc...

But the rest is common knowledge for all mankind... It's not an exact science or a complex science yet...

I personnally wouldnt give medals for that... He defeated his enemies and prevented casulties in his team. It's a professional soldier, he is supposed to act like that.

If it was a civilian or a wounded soldier... That might change the outcome...
 
That's the thing that irritates us. We KNOW what it takes to do these things. We KNOW that what this soldier did was damn near impossible and it also inspired his team to move forward and engage. We KNOW that this soldier is remarkable because many of us HAVE been pinned down by machine gun fire and it's fVcking almost impossible to take them out without incurring tremendous casualties on yourself and your team. Add to that the fact that these adversaries he was facing were dug in on the high ground, likely with interlocking fields of fire...from the sound of the citation each MG had several men in and around their position. This means that they outnumbered the SAS soldiers significantly...The reality is that every single one of that SAS team should be dead. Doctrine states you need a 3-1 advantage when attacking in open terrain...and 5-1 when attacking in broken/mountainous terrain. The Taliban soldier had all the advantages. It was obvious they were so well dug in and so well concealed that not even allied air power or artillery could get them to budge. Still this man moved forward...still he continued to close with and destroy the enemy in HAND to HAND COMBAT...until there was no more enemy left to kill....He killed several enemies in close combat, he single handedly broke the back of the Taliban defense/ambush, he saved every one of his fellow teamates lives that day...How is that NOT conspicuous.

We KNOW that this is something special because combat is a motherfVcker. It's a b*tch...the mother of all b*tches, it makes no sense and nothing EVER goes the way it should. It's absolutely the scariest most insane environment on earth...yet he still plodded forward, knowing that he would probably die....just because he didn't, doesn't mean his valor means any less. You don't think that it's very significant...that's your right. All we are saying is that we are his peers, us, professional soldiers, and we deem him a hero because WE KNOW what inherently comes with the acts that this brave soldier exhibited. You do not...that's the problem.
 
Well, now that's a challenge... Admit that it doesnt sound so challenging when you read the first description...

Immediately upon the helicopter insertion, the troop was engaged by machine gun and rocket propelled grenade fire from multiple, dominating positions. Two soldiers were wounded in action and the troop was pinned down by fires from three machine guns in an elevated fortified position to the south of the village. Under the cover of close air support, suppressive small arms and machine gun fire, Corporal Roberts Smith and his patrol manoeuvred to within 70 metres of the enemy position in order to neutralise the enemy machine gun positions and regain the initiative.

Upon commencement of the assault, the patrol drew very heavy, intense, effective and sustained fire from the enemy position. Corporal Roberts Smith and his patrol members fought towards the enemy position until, at a range of 40 metres, the weight of fire prevented further movement forward. At this point, he identified the opportunity to exploit some cover provided by a small structure.

As he approached the structure, Corporal Roberts Smith identified an insurgent grenadier in the throes of engaging his patrol. Corporal Roberts Smith instinctively engaged the insurgent at point-blank range resulting in the death of the insurgent. With the members of his patrol still pinned down by the three enemy machine gun positions, he exposed his own position in order to draw fire away from his patrol, which enabled them to bring fire to bear against the enemy. His actions enabled his Patrol Commander to throw a grenade and silence one of the machine guns. Seizing the advantage, and demonstrating extreme devotion to duty and the most conspicuous gallantry, Corporal Roberts Smith, with a total disregard for his own safety, stormed the enemy position killing the two remaining machine gunners.
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I highlighted some parts that seemed relevant... And after reading this, I dont know about you guys, but it doesnt seem very impressive... These are SAS. The elite of the elite, the alpha males...

And I personally underestimate the skills of the Taliban A LOT. They are religious zealots. Not even really "brave", because for them, a death on the battlefield is a straiway to heaven... They are not skilled warriors. And if they were... These soldiers would be dead as miracles dont happen...
 
They ARE skilled adversaries otherwise they would have been vanquished long ago. The fact that they are so reckless with their lives makes them MORE dangersous because they fight as if they have nothing to lose. The Japanese fought with the same reckless ferocity in WWII which is why fighting them was so difficult. Any soldier will tell you that facing an adversary that is literally willing to do anything to kill you is the scariest most difficult opponent to combat. The SAS soldiers are not dead because of this lone soldier. The Taliban had them pinned down to the point that they were dead in the water. When one is pinned down that means you can't move, you can't see, you can't hardly breath because if you do this you're dead. Him drawing their fire means that he exposed himself to 3 machine guns. Basically he stood in the open and poured fire into them to get the fire off his buddies. The fact he was not hit IS a miracle...actually, he's just very lucky. (which is something you come to believe in after serving down range for any length of time) You don't even have to be a very good marksman to to kill with an MG. The fact that the enemy were using tactically sound MG emplacements in dominating terrain tells me that they were not just crappily trained "militia". Underestimating your opponent is a sure fire way to get yourself killed. The enemy executed their plan by the book and should have destroyed this team outright. Sure, they are SAS, the best of the best...but as you like to say, they are still men. Until we have Master Chiefs Armor from Halo, one just should not blunder into several MG nests and expect to come out alive. I'm positive he was aware of this and he still continued.

It's easy to play monday morning quarterback when none of us know the what exactly the situation was on the ground. The SAS is known for holding there soldiers to higher standards than any other. This means they are not going to recommend a VC for just any old combat action. The fact that they still went ahead and put this soldier in for the highest of awards speaks volumes in and of itself.
 
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