The scar
c/Commander
Active member
Right now, no. There is no slated replacement for the M16.
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
The SCAR is a weapon system that could in the future.... ie ten-twenty years from now replace the AR-15 series. The SCAR is becoming "the rifle" for the SpecOps community. Colt has lost it's final DoD contract with the M4. FN currently produces over 70% of the weapons for the DoD. They even have a current contract for M16A4 rifles and are trying to win the M4 contract.... if that happens FN will pump out M4s and try to change the DoD's hive mind to switch the M4 with the SCAR. But I don't see it happening ASAP. It's going to take a long while.
It's a fine piece of weaponry on the market right now and the semi-auto SCAR-16S that are hitting the civilian market are selling for about $2,600-$3,000 a pop.
It's a fine piece of weaponry on the market right now and the semi-auto SCAR-16S that are hitting the civilian market are selling for about $2,600-$3,000 a pop.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Awesome.
When it comes to gun purchasing time, I ain't buying one without 5.56's advice.
When it comes to gun purchasing time, I ain't buying one without 5.56's advice.
major liability
Active member
I hope they come up with something a bit more revolutionary before they adopt something new for the entire military. SCAR is awesome and all but it's not a huge departure from what's already available. I want to see some caseless rifles, maybe an electronic firing mechanism, there are lots of possibilities.
I won't lie though, I really want a SCAR 17S.
I won't lie though, I really want a SCAR 17S.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I don't quite understand but what is the true advantage of having caseless ammunition?
major liability
Active member
It's a lot lighter because there's no shell, just propellant and the bullet. Also, when you don't have to eject spent brass you can fire much more quickly, that's how the G11 puts 3 rounds downrange before you feel the recoil.
KJ
Active member
Well, why do you think the SCAR would need to have that capability?
I reckon the SCAR is one of the most interesting weapons in a while.
Why, well for a few reasons.
! When you take down a house you have a very compact weapon with stopping power enough.
Recoil during shots one and two is not a problem for an experienced shooter.
They train everyday to be able to put their first two bullets inside the parameters they need them to go.
And if you need more then two shots before shifting targets you shouldn´t be taking down that house full stop.
And 2, Once you have taken down said house your target interdiction man just changes his upper.
The fact that you change the entire upper lets you keep both sights zeroed even with a quick change.
This was not the case with the Steyr system wich had some of the same features but where you changed the barrel only.
Your TI man has got a zeroed snipersystem ready for overwatch in the time it takes him to change the upper.
I dunno, I haven´t tried it myself yet.
But the specs has gotten me curious.
If the system can deliver what the manufacturer claims it will give small units an advantage.
//KJ.
I reckon the SCAR is one of the most interesting weapons in a while.
Why, well for a few reasons.
! When you take down a house you have a very compact weapon with stopping power enough.
Recoil during shots one and two is not a problem for an experienced shooter.
They train everyday to be able to put their first two bullets inside the parameters they need them to go.
And if you need more then two shots before shifting targets you shouldn´t be taking down that house full stop.
And 2, Once you have taken down said house your target interdiction man just changes his upper.
The fact that you change the entire upper lets you keep both sights zeroed even with a quick change.
This was not the case with the Steyr system wich had some of the same features but where you changed the barrel only.
Your TI man has got a zeroed snipersystem ready for overwatch in the time it takes him to change the upper.
I dunno, I haven´t tried it myself yet.
But the specs has gotten me curious.
If the system can deliver what the manufacturer claims it will give small units an advantage.
//KJ.
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c/Commander
Active member
Easy to change the upper on an AR-15 platform weapon as well; it's just two pins out, swap, two pins in, shoot. Not that anyone is going to be carrying a separate upper into combat for the occasion, that would be silly.
KJ
Active member
Well the AR platform is in 5,56.
We both know that the carachteristics of the 5,56 doesn´t really make it a good target interdiction caliber
And You mean they don´t carry a specialized TI upper today, and with they I mean the units using it today?
Not what I have heard.
//KJ.
c/Commander
Active member
The AR platform is in whatever caliber you want - coincidentally, most of these can be changed (depending on the size of the round) by changing the upper receiver.
"They" probably do carry specialized uppers; but you won't see "them" changing them out in combat. If they have a need for two different rifles, they'll carry two different rifles.
"They" probably do carry specialized uppers; but you won't see "them" changing them out in combat. If they have a need for two different rifles, they'll carry two different rifles.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
That's actually the way I've seen things work as well but who knows. Maybe there is a different way of doing things that I'm not aware of.
I'd have like to seen
I would like to see which I know wont happen but would make sense if the money was there to replace them is a platform like the SCAR chambered in the 6.8SPC which is a awesome round when you compare it to the 5.56 Nato. That Ballistics of this round is so much better and the knock down is what we need in a fire fight againest the enemy of today. These guys get all doped up and ive hit them with a 5.56 and they dont go down. Before they change the platform though I think they need to make the leap forward in a new round just my 2 cents.
fftopic:
I would like to see which I know wont happen but would make sense if the money was there to replace them is a platform like the SCAR chambered in the 6.8SPC which is a awesome round when you compare it to the 5.56 Nato. That Ballistics of this round is so much better and the knock down is what we need in a fire fight againest the enemy of today. These guys get all doped up and ive hit them with a 5.56 and they dont go down. Before they change the platform though I think they need to make the leap forward in a new round just my 2 cents.
fftopic:
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
6.8 SPC is a dead cartridge. In fact it was still birth. Main issue with the 5.56x45mm is that we use a 62rd Steel Core non expanding load.
Switch it up like what Spec-Ops and the Law Enforcement community uses. My main load is Winchester's SXT 55Gr Jacketed Soft Tip. Very good load for both armoured and unarmoured subjects. It's an expanding load. What heaiver stuff.... a 62Gr Jacketed Hollow Point would work.... but that's a waste. The 75Gr stuff out there with the ballistic Nosler tip is a fanastic product. Hordany and Black Hills makes good expanding ammunition in that weight range. Want lighter? Winchester and Remingotn also make a 45gr and a 35gr JHP. Great against unarmoured subjects.
The 6.8x43mm main issue is that it's a short distance cartridge. 5.56x45mm beats it in range. If you want something in the .25-.27 caliber range. The 6.5 grendel is the way to go. Better loads, longer ranges. It's a proven 1,000 yard cartridge.
The SCAR in 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm is the two perfect platforms for it. I'm sticking with 5.56x45mm..... only new cartridge that is peeking my interest is the new .30 AR by Remington. Nice deer/hog cartridge. Not at all designed for a combat rifle. But it will surely make hamburger meat out of those cute wild tasty critters.
Switch it up like what Spec-Ops and the Law Enforcement community uses. My main load is Winchester's SXT 55Gr Jacketed Soft Tip. Very good load for both armoured and unarmoured subjects. It's an expanding load. What heaiver stuff.... a 62Gr Jacketed Hollow Point would work.... but that's a waste. The 75Gr stuff out there with the ballistic Nosler tip is a fanastic product. Hordany and Black Hills makes good expanding ammunition in that weight range. Want lighter? Winchester and Remingotn also make a 45gr and a 35gr JHP. Great against unarmoured subjects.
The 6.8x43mm main issue is that it's a short distance cartridge. 5.56x45mm beats it in range. If you want something in the .25-.27 caliber range. The 6.5 grendel is the way to go. Better loads, longer ranges. It's a proven 1,000 yard cartridge.
The SCAR in 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm is the two perfect platforms for it. I'm sticking with 5.56x45mm..... only new cartridge that is peeking my interest is the new .30 AR by Remington. Nice deer/hog cartridge. Not at all designed for a combat rifle. But it will surely make hamburger meat out of those cute wild tasty critters.
Bror Jace
Active member
5.56X45mm, aren't expanding rounds outlawed by the Geneva convention? I suppose if a single soldier gets a hold of a few factory cartridges with expanding bullets and uses them in his M4, no one would probably notice or care (unless he gets stoppages) but for a nation to adopt an expanding round ... that would be problematic, no?
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Yes hollow points are outlawed for the military by the Geneva Convention.
major liability
Active member
I find it ridiculous that they think it is more humane to put some bullets straight through someone so they bleed out in agony than to just kill them quickly with expanding bullets.