Sadaam is DEAD!!!!!!!!!!

Very few Iraqis have seen anything close to the full weight of Americas Military Might fall upon them first hand.
Now you take the people of Dresden, Germany, in February of 1945, now those people became believers really quick, as the United States Army Air Corps along with the British started Fire Tornados that ran wild in the City.
Many in Japan from 1945 on could also attest to the Military Might of the United States of America.
By and large Iraqis are treated with kid gloves, which is part and parcel with the trouble in Iraq.
Now, if I were in charge I would put out notice that all Journalists, not in a United States Military Uniform, are to be expelled from Iraq if things do not show marked improvement in 1 month, after that if things did not improve I would toss all Journalists not in United States Military Uniform, and take the Iraqis to school, and show them first hand just how vicious the United States Military can become when properly motivated.
I’m never put in charge of such things though.
 
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3 years ago, you were liberating the Iraqi people, now you are threatening to kill them all, and make them fear you - I'm confused. Who is the enemy? What are the goals of this war? Please explain.
 
The goals have changed so often I have no idea.
3 years ago the US Military was on a Search and Destroy Mission for WMD's, helping Iraqi Civilians was an after thought, sort of the icing on the cake.

The end game is for the United States of America to save face with regards to Iraq.

If the Iraqis thought the US was going to crack down, and crack down hard, well they may just sit on their hands until the US Military leaves.
If not, well many Iraqis would no doubt die, but that's why War is such a bad thing to have in the first place.
Better dead Iraqis than dead United States Military Service Members, in my own opinion.
 
"Better dead Iraqis then dead United States Military Service Members"

If everybody serving in iraq had your opinion then there would be no point in helping liberate iraq from the insurgents. Might as well hand iraq to iran on a big plate with this kind of attitude.

You can't go around throwing your weight about and expect a quick easy solution to this kind of war. This is going to be long and protracted and messy. If you lose the support of the people you're trying to help then you're finished so you must be patient and dilligent. You must be prepared to accept casulties and not lash out when you're angry and in despair.

It is going to be easy for the insurgents to cause trouble but its always going to be hard to track them down and make sure that you've got the right man. No one said this was going to be a walk in the park.

You need to follow the rules of war because no matter how hard the going gets, you need to know you're doing the right thing. If you don't follow the rules then you're no better than those you're fighting against.

This must be adhered to by every soldier in Iraq and they must be prepared to lay down their lives to ensure that the people of Iraq have a chance, to ensure that the insurgants are defeated and to ensure that the war is won. This is why the average soldier in Iraq must be supported at every opportunity by everyone. Those soldiers that fail must be punished if the war is to be won. The soldiers have been asked to accomplish an extremely difficult task by their respective countries and their citizens and they must not fail in their duty.

The same applies to the politicians that started this war, they must not fail at any point and have a duty to the soldiers, the people of iraq and to the people of their own country. The reasons for war must be sound, the reasons to continue with the war must be sound,their conduct must be impeccable and they should be setting good examples to their countrymen and humanity at every opportunity. They have the responsibilty of each of the soldiers lives on their heads. Any politician associated with the war that fails must be held accountable for it.

Its a tough deal but if you want to defeat the insurgents everyone must be in it for the long haul. If you run away from it or lose sigth of what you're fighting for then you have failed the people of Iraq and lost a major war in the war against terrorism.
 
The Liberation indigenous populations of foreign lands is neither in the US Constitution nor is it in the Oath of Enlistment for the US Military.

I have no idea how your Military is set up.

As for the killing of Non-Combatants, well, the US Military does try and limit such things, are you saying the US Military broke some sort of International Law with regards to the Firebombing of Dresden, Germany, or the dropping of the Atomic Bomb and then Nuclear Bomb on Japan?
I had not heard of any prosecutions and I'll point out that the US Military also Carpet Bombed Vietnam, and there was that little "Shock and Awe" in Iraq to kick this War off.

The US Military is not set up for Peacekeeping or Police Actions, the things that make it a "walk in the park" for the enemy.
The US Military breaks things, and lots of people not in a United States Military Uniform around the US Military Area of Operations in a Combat Zone have a bad habit of ending up dead.

As for "Peacekeeping" and or "Police Actions" the United Nations seems more set up for such things.
 
aow...! said:
3 years ago, you were liberating the Iraqi people, now you are threatening to kill them all, and make them fear you - I'm confused. Who is the enemy? What are the goals of this war? Please explain.
Click to expand...

I'm an American and thats what I'd like to know too. It was

1. WMD. Except none were found, and when that failed it was
2. Global War on Terrorism. Problem was no ties between Saddam and al-Qaeda were ever found, so now we are up to
3. Freeing the Iraq people. I hate to say it, they may have been better off without us. As the saying goes:

'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'
 
Gator said:
The US Military is not set up for Peacekeeping or Police Actions, the things that make it a "walk in the park" for the enemy.
The US Military breaks things, and lots of people not in a United States Military Uniform around the US Military Area of Operations in a Combat Zone have a bad habit of ending up dead.

As for "Peacekeeping" and or "Police Actions" the United Nations seems more set up for such things.
Click to expand...

And this brings us back to the original question why the hell would you invade a country without a plan to secure said country once the invasion was over especially since the UN had already said it wasn't going provide post match clean up services?

If the Iraqis thought the US was going to crack down, and crack down hard, well they may just sit on their hands until the US Military leaves.
If not, well many Iraqis would no doubt die, but that's why War is such a bad thing to have in the first place.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this is exactly whats going to happen, the clever "insurgents" are going to take a years break leaving the "suicidal insurgents" behind to ensure things don't settle down and once you are out of there they will be back to take over just like Hussein the only difference is that instead of a sectarian lunatic you will have to deal with a fundamentalist lunatic think of it as Taliban Afghanistan with oil revenues and more than likely Iranian backing.

Better dead Iraqis than dead United States Military Service Members, in my own opinion.
Click to expand...

You wonder where an insurgency gets it recruits?
It never ceases to amaze me how few people on this board seem to understand Newtons third law of motion and how it applies to almost everything.
 
MontyB said:
And this brings us back to the original question why the hell would you invade a country without a plan to secure said country once the invasion was over especially since the UN had already said it wasn't going provide post match clean up services?



Unfortunately this is exactly whats going to happen, the clever "insurgents" are going to take a years break leaving the "suicidal insurgents" behind to ensure things don't settle down and once you are out of there they will be back to take over just like Hussein the only difference is that instead of a sectarian lunatic you will have to deal with a fundamentalist lunatic think of it as Taliban Afghanistan with oil revenues and more than likely Iranian backing.



You wonder where an insurgency gets it recruits?
It never ceases to amaze me how few people on this board seem to understand Newtons third law of motion and how it applies to almost everything.
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I wouldn't have invaded Iraq, but like I said before, the Federal Government does not see fit to place me in charge of such things.
Talk about going into Iraq or not ended some time ago, we are there now, right or wrong.
The President has an obligation to protect US Military Personnel and Property. In theory the President can send 200,000 more Troops to Iraq, with heavy Armor, and start moving grid by grid just blowing stuff up as soon as there is trouble in any section. Which would no doubt cause Iraqis to fight more, which would cause more of a response from the United States Military, which would cause Iraqis to fight more, and so on, and so forth, they still do not have Heavy Armor, or an Air Force.

I do not believe there are many in Washington D.C. who believe Iraq will be a stable nation after we leave, but I do not believe there are many in Washington D.C. who still care. The gamble has already been lost with Iraq, the open question is just how many Iraqis are to be killed before it is all over. As far as those people signing up to fight the USA, well they are that way, there is proof that no matter what is said, no matter what is drawn as a cartoon, no matter what help is given, those people just always bite the hand that feeds them.
I believe they are just brought up that way.
I also believe the Pope had it right, even though to prove the Pope wrong, those people (Muslims) killed innocent people.

I'll add that there were people in power in Washington D.C. who knew Vietnam was lost long before the War there ended, lots of Vietnamese were killed anyway on the way out.
 
Funny how we are the only ones that follow "international law"

Bunch of BS....

I'm sick of whine ass pansies...If it wasn't for my past family members and other family of my fellow country men most of you would be speaking either German, Russian, or Japanese...The way I look at it is until you come up with a better solution you sit down and shut the ____ up....

Out cry over Abu Grab....where's the out cry over beheading civilians????

Carry on
 
Abu Grab was prosecuted under US Military Law, and rightfully so.

Those Troops should have known better, well they did know better, and they are in prison right now.
 
But you cannot judge a fraction of the U.S. military force over an entire organization like al Qaida. As an "organization" we are held to the highest level of integrity and ethics in any organization that I know of and that includes religious organizations.

Back in the day, our military was brutal. Read the following...

image001.jpg
 
Is he still on the Reserve List? Get that man back!

Where do we get another man willing to think outside the square?
 
I know the US Military is capable of going medieval in Iraq, the Iraqis either do not know this, or do know, and just wish to ignore it.

Theres is talk from Iraqis, who do not like the USA, wanting to push the idea that the War there is like the Vietnam War, well, the Vietnamese lost millions of people and had to rebuild without the help of the United States Taxpayer, I know the very same thing can happen in Iraq.
 
Please return to the original subject of this thread. Start another if you feel the need to continue to beat that particular horse.
 
Team Infidel said:
Yeaaaa... Sadaam is dead :D
Click to expand...

While I don't feel the least bit sorry for him, I have the grave suspicion that his death might have made things worse in Iraq. The execution, like the trial was a farce. It wasn't justice, it was revenge on the part of a Shiite Lynch Mob. That message was received loud and clear by the Sunni extremists, and you can be sure they are planning a bloody response...

We should have done the execution ourselves, and they shouldn't have done it on a Muslim Holiday (which ironically is supposed to be about forgiving of sins). Thats was abit perverse, its like executing someone on Christmas Eve.
 
In my opinion, the trouble with Iraq is there are way too many Iraqis running around.

I believe if not for all the Iraqis the nation of Iraq would be a nice place to live, and Saddam was just one small step in a very long journey.
 
What people in the states fail to understand is how much the Shiites and the Sunnis really HATE each other (worldwide, and not just in Iraq). Its the worse kind of Hatred, religious hatred. Each views the other as heretics who need too be punished for offending God. They might claim its social, political or economic but in the background its religious. Thats why they go tit-for-tat on bombing each others Holy Sites. I am convinced they would rather kill each other rather than live in peace together.

Why on earth would we want to get in the middle of that? Its suicide!
 
Oh lots of people in the US Governemnt knew the facts on the ground, which is part and parcle with why Bush Sr. allowed Saddam to keep his country after the 1st Gulf War.

The only way to put many billions of US Tax Dollars into the pipeline for illegal use is to have a War, not an Afghanistan type War mind you, as Afghanistan, as pointed out by the old Secretary of Defense, had no good targets.

Republicans made lots of money because of Iraq, and now they can sit back and ride out 12 or 16 years of total Democratic Rule, fat and happy.
 
The Death of Saddam brings about more division, hatred, and sectarian violence. Many supporters of Saddam's regime, presumely the Sunni Minority, is calling for a bloody revenge.
 
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