Russia's lucky.

GreatestAlive

GreatestAlive

Active member
I feel that US intervention (in form of equipment) in the early ww2 times in Russia saved russia from defeat. It just makes me angry that evryone says Russia won because of superior figting and other characteristics, when if fact, they only won beacuse of the 1000+ trucks, tanks, and other equipment that saved them.
 
actually we are talking about 100000+ trucks, tanks and other equipment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
almost all (in the posts i read on this forum) say that russia had inferior tactics, and that it won thanks to huge numbers of men/tanks/aircraft. the reasons of this numerical superiority is the massive heavy industry russia deployed during the war and land lease as you stated.
 
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From what I have read in books, the American tanks were only used as 'Secondary' or 'Last' options, in the case that:

a). Soviet machinery [Trucks, tanks, armoured vehicles etc.] have broken down, destroyed or lost were replaced by US vehicles/equipment/parts if they cannot be replaced by anything else

b). If a city/town was attacked and couldnt get support on time, non-Soviet vehicles were used for support

I have never read that the Soviets used American vehicles specifically for combat, but more for moving supplies, troops and other parts.
Generally, the T-34 was superior to the German Panzer tanks [Most German tank commanders and generals admitted this].

One of the reasons the Soviet Union won was that their equipment was MUCH more reliable and durable in both winter and summer. In the book 'Weapons of the Waffen SS', it says that the German MP28 was a copy of the Soviet Ppsh-41. The book also says that the German Gewehr 43 self-loading rifle had designs very similar to the Soviet Tokarev SVT-40.
Also, Soviet production of the majority of their equipment was very fast [By 1943, Ppsh factories produced 3000 Ppsh-41's a day].

Red army soldiers also sometimes used guerilla tactics. Soviet soldiers that were getting shot at by Germans 'fell' to the ground and acted as if they were hit. Once some SS soldiers came over to inspect, the Soviet would jump up and kill them.

Indeed, the Katyusha rockets, A.K.A 'Stalins organs', were a terror to German commanders. They were usually placed to the sides and front of a German division, and then started to fire their 48 rockets simultaenously.

Also they had more troops than the Soviets, and the numbers usually overwhelmed German MG teams.
 
Balkan-MiG said:
In the book 'Weapons of the Waffen SS', it says that the German MP28 was a copy of the Soviet Ppsh-41.
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That is incorrect.

The MP28 was a latter and improved version of the MP18 built in 1918. The PPSh 41 wasnt introduced until 1941

The MP18/28 was copied by the Swiss, Chinese, British, Finns and the Japanese.
 
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The vast amount of arms and equipment that Russia used was made in Russia. In Stalingrad and other Russian cities some war production plants were still working while battles were fought around and in them. When Russia upped sticks and moved much of their war production east of the Ural mountains, the plants were working with in weeks, even before they had walls and roofs. Okay we did ship a load of equipment out to the Russians, but just how many pictures have you seen with Sherman Tanks, Spitfires and Hurricanes, you might spot the odd lorry here and there, but thats about all.
I often wondered if they melted the stuff we sent them down to make there own weapons.
 
LeEnfield said:
The vast amount of arms and equipment that Russia used was made in Russia. In Stalingrad and other Russian cities some war production plants were still working while battles were fought around and in them. When Russia upped sticks and moved much of their war production east of the Ural mountains, the plants were working with in weeks, even before they had walls and roofs. Okay we did ship a load of equipment out to the Russians, but just how many pictures have you seen with Sherman Tanks, Spitfires and Hurricanes, you might spot the odd lorry here and there, but thats about all.
I often wondered if they melted the stuff we sent them down to make there own weapons.
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You might be interested in the following:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/94/a4142594.shtml
Leading Aircraftsman (LAC) William Parker

Later I was transferred to RAF Shibah which was near Basra and had two large hangers in one of which I found myself building Spitfires that had come by sea in crates to Basra.

Later I found out that at a meeting between Churchill and Stalin, Stalin required help from Churchill in the form of Spitfires to help in holding back the German advance towards the Russian town of Stalingrad.

The way in which the Russian pilots collected the planes was strange. Our pilots flew the spitfires over the border to Abadan in Persia from where they were collected. I did the engine check on the last one to cross the border.

When the work on the Spitfires ended there was a rumour that Stalin wished to give the Red Star medal to the airmen who has been involved in the supply of planes but this was refused by Churchill. To this day I do not know if this was fact or fiction.

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricanes/index.htm

Within days of Operation 'Barbarossa' on 22nd June 1941, Stalin was already asking for assistance in fighting the 'fascist aggressors'. His first request for 30 divisions to fight on the Russian Front was totally out of the question considering Britain's own state of affairs after being routed from France a year earlier and having other commitments around the world.

What Churchill did decide to do was to provide a supply of war materials to help Russia. This was not an easy solution to the problem of helping an ally, albeit quite a new and unusual one. The Armed Forces of Britain still required equipment, the same as that being requested by the Russians. The Russians were asking for Spitfires, to the consternation of the RAF who were still building up their squadrons and phasing out the Hurricanes. It was decided at the Moscow Conference - First Protocol to send 200 aircraft a month between October 1941 and June 1942. These consisted mainly of Hurricanes, but also Tomahawk IIB's and P39 Airacobra. (Later the Russians were to receive over 1000 Spitfires but did not actually like them in the end).

The Russians also received supplies of guns, tanks, clothing, rubber, engines, trains - anything used in wartime.

Hurricanes were to be the largest aircraft consignment of aircraft from the UK, put at around 3,000 Hurricanes of different marks. At this point, it was noted that there was no point sending hundreds of aircraft, Hurricanes especially, without showing the Russians how to unpack, assemble, operate and maintain Hurricanes with their relatively sensitive Rolls-Royce Merlin engines.
 
The winter saved the Russians. It had nothing to do with US involvement. Very few if any soldiers were diverted from Russia to Africa to fight the Americans.
 
LeEnfield said:
The vast amount of arms and equipment that Russia used was made in Russia. In Stalingrad and other Russian cities some war production plants were still working while battles were fought around and in them. When Russia upped sticks and moved much of their war production east of the Ural mountains, the plants were working with in weeks, even before they had walls and roofs. Okay we did ship a load of equipment out to the Russians, but just how many pictures have you seen with Sherman Tanks, Spitfires and Hurricanes, you might spot the odd lorry here and there, but thats about all.
I often wondered if they melted the stuff we sent them down to make there own weapons.
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Yeah, ive never seen a American/British vehicle in any Soviet wartime pictures :eek:

But I do remember seeing a Red Army officer with what looked like a M1 Garand.. though it might have been a SVT-40, I cant remember.
 
Balkan-MiG said:
Yeah, ive never seen a American/British vehicle in any Soviet wartime pictures :eek:

But I do remember seeing a Red Army officer with what looked like a M1 Garand.. though it might have been a SVT-40, I cant remember.
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Here let me rectify that for you:

Katyusha Rockets mounted on US Lend Lease Vehicles.


LendLeaseAmericanTrucksKatyushas.jpg
 
I think Lend-Lease was critical to the survival of the Soviet Union in WW2. If you want more of my opinion browse my posts - I've written a bit on the subject. It has to be understood that for the actual weapons of war (tanks, planes, artillery) the USSR produced more than enough to match the Germans. Where Lend-Lease made a difference was in keeping the Soviet logistical machine in operation in supplying trucks, locomotives, railroad tracks, etc

You cannot win wars without logistics - the matter is very important. In a country as large as the Soviet Union was logistics were even more important than usual.
 
One of the most over looked aspects of lend lease was raw materials, such as a aluminum and steel. When you are fighting for your existence, some things get put on the back burner, like mining or raw material extraction to make those airplanes and trucks. A lot of the lend lease indeed was raw materials.

another weird co-incidence was that the guage of russian trains back in the fortys anbd thirtys was the same as the american gauge (we had some influence in that a long time back). It seemed that the russians lost quite a few trains...not always to the enemy but to frigid temperatures and harsh conditions. It was easier sometimes just to get another train engine (there were a few shipped across the barents, right under the japaneese noses, sort to speak) which then were put straight to use on the siberian trans continental rail way.

we sold them a lot of horse meat (whats the difference...a steak is a steak) and a lot of grain...wheat...corn.

in my opinion, they did good with what they got. granted, they had good factorys, great tanks, and such...but they got too. they were very lucky.:drunkb:
 
Mark Conley said:
It was easier sometimes just to get another train engine (there were a few shipped across the barents, right under the japaneese noses, sort to speak) which then were put straight to use on the siberian trans continental rail way.
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Very few LL Locomotives were shipped during WW2. The numbers were never enough to have any great impact during 1941-1944.
 
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