Russian Small arms and aiming devices

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Topmaul

Active member
So what do you guys think about Russian Small Arms and aiming devices

I shoot a bit of 3 gun and always use at least two Russian made pieces of equipment.

for aiming I have a Russian PK-01 Columnator optic it works great it is as good as an Aimpoint 1.5 moa dot with automatic brightness control. I bought it so that if I needed to do a boarding at work I could just turn it :CG:eek:n and it would brighten or darken the dot depending on the lighting conditions a very good feature on a ship never know what the light will be on the other side of a door. Also if you have to exit a vehicle dash across through bright sunlight into a dark house your dot will be at the proper adjustment. This is an old school red dot not very modern but works great. Right now it is on my CX4 Storm carbine Home Defense weapon.

When it comes to a shotgun the Saiga 12 is the best tactical shotgun in the world bar none there are more complex guns out there but the S-12 is king of the hill I plan to shoot for Team Saiga (Izhmash) at the 2010 Pan-American shotgun championships.

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My Saiga 12 shotgun with a 20 round drum and the PK-01 on the barrel

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my 16 year old son getting ready to take on a stage with his Saiga 12
I also use a Saiga 7.62x39 just because I can keep up with most shooters at matches where I know I will be shooting no more than 100 yards. I must say I get better scores with my AR-15 which I don't use that much.

Russian small arms and aiming devices are fine I have no problem with them.
 
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beautiful hardware you got there. I have a full auto AK-47 at home(my has it lisenced), but we dont shoot much because the bullets are very expensive here.
 
That's surprising, I would have thought AK-47 ammo would have been cheap as dirt where you are. There are more AK-47s in the middle East then there are people.
 
Before the Chinese Norinco ammo became available here in Australia, I always used Syrian 7.62x39. It was cheaper than dirt in bulk.
 
That's surprising, I would have thought AK-47 ammo would have been cheap as dirt where you are. There are more AK-47s in the middle East then there are people.
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well its about 2$ a round here.
 
SHERMAN said:
well its about 2$ a round here.
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Ouch, I think the last lot I purchased was $38 for 250 rounds.

Hehe I just checked a new catalog and it has gone up a lot recently it is now $31 for 100 rounds.
 
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well, not too many civilians here own 7.62/39 weapons
(i assume less than 200), so its kind of rare on the market.
 
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Top Beretta CX4 Storm Carbine 9mm
Middle Saiga 12 Shotgun
bottom Beretta 92 FS note carbine and pistol take the same magazines

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Customized Saiga 7.62x39 Saiga with scout mount scope it is actually a pistol scope mounted on an Ultimak gas tube while it looks cool I have not had good luck with this arangement in competition and will give up on it.

Same pistol and shotgun as above although I have made a few mods to the shotgun since this picture was take.
 
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Nice pic's, love the carbine, never been much of a shotgun nor pistol fan myself.
I tend to prefer rifles, in fact all but two of the 56 units in my collection are rifles.
 
The main reason I am into shotguns so much is that my gun club has a monthly Tactical Shotgun Match which I really enjoy. My son and I normally dominate it. Recently the match directors have made stages and rules that favor tube fed shotguns not, in order to even the playing field. I still shoot fairly regularly. August 16th is the next shotgun match I plan to bring my war machine BTW that is me in the RED WHITE AND BLUE
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Saiga .223 and 7.62x39 both set up with ultimak rails and pistol scopes
 
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Yeah those Saiga-12s are sweet, the only shotguns I'd take before a Saiga are an AA-12 or Vepr-12. Russian weapons are always interesting. I like their 9x39mm subsonic rifle ammo, it seems perfect for the type of urban combat that is prevalent in modern wars when used in one of their many integrally suppressed weapons. That 9x21mm Gyurza ammo also looks like a pretty good choice for a military service pistol, it has penetration comparable to the PDW calibers without sacrificing lethality.

Unfortunately most of the Russian gear never gets imported for various reasons.
 
Just got back from a tactical shotgun match shooting in the open division I got second place by 3 seconds I fumbled a reload not bad but it cost me big. The winner had a Benelli with speed loaders he is a top fire arms instructor and a former pro shooter frankly i am not in his league what makes me very competitive with him (3) seconds was that I use a superior weapon if really good competitors ever get over their biases and try out this Russian War Horse they would find that it is light years a head of tube feeders ALL TUBE FEEDERS and unlike the AA-12 or USA-12 it is obtainable in the US and many countries in Europe. :biggun:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGZfs_406es
 
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Topmaul said:
When it comes to a shotgun the Saiga 12 is the best tactical shotgun in the world bar none My Saiga 12 shotgun with a 20 round drum and the PK-01 on the barrel
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Dunno just me and having used Shotguns in tactical situations I'd put my money on an 870 or a Mossberg 590. I have a ginky feeling on auto loading shot guns. Especially mag fed. Bang Bang Jam. Never had a pump gun jam.

I have also found that in real world situations a big azz drum is more wieght and incumburance than you want.
 
I agree with the drum, I only set it up that way for the mall ninja picture. That drum was a pre-prodcution run sent to me for testing and evaluation.

As far as reliability goes the Saiga has it, If a Saiga jams it's easy to clear, when 1100s jam they are broke and require tools to fix. I would say that the 1187 gave semi-automatic shotguns a bad name. 1100 series are not fit for tactical use ever.

Box magazine fed shotgun the shell is lifted into the into position by the mag spring and pushed into battery by the return of the bolt very simple.

Tube fed shotgun the shell is stored under the barrel and moves back then is lifted into position then ramed into the chamber each shell makes a j looking trip from the magazine to the chamber. Much more movement and machinery to achieve this.

The Saiga 12 is a simple weapon without many moving parts unlike other semi auto shotguns on the market.

As far as pumps jamming it does happen usually it is opperator error shot stroking the pump or over running the trigger or manufacturer defect a good running pump should work fine if the shooter does his part but all machines do malfunction from time to time. The problem with all shotguns is magazine capacity, a tactical shotgun should have the magazine tube almost as long as the barrel, I know guys who have barrels 8 inches longer than the barrel gun looks silly to me. Another problem is reloads it takes forever to reload a long magazined tube feeder. The longer the tube the longer to reload.

The Saiga solves part of the problem by employing easy to load magazines, last year we had an Iron Man match 85 targets, on one stage the shooter would start at the buzzer and run throught the course I have plenty of magazines my 15 year old son won top honors, I was third and another Saiga shooter was second. No one else was even close. Shooters were allowed to pre stage ammo at various places along the course, we carried all ours.

My friend with the speed loaders was doing fine till he ran out of those speed loader things and was back to stuffing the tube by hand.
 
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03USMC said:
Dunno just me and having used Shotguns in tactical situations I'd put my money on an 870 or a Mossberg 590. I have a ginky feeling on auto loading shot guns. Especially mag fed. Bang Bang Jam. Never had a pump gun jam.

I have also found that in real world situations a big azz drum is more wieght and incumburance than you want.
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+1

I've never been a fan of the box magazine feed shotgun. Best series of shotguns for real world applications are pumps and a very small list of semi-autos.

Pumps
Remington 870 (King of the shotgun)
Winchester 1300 Defender (One fast handling slide action)
Mossberg 500/590 (The runner up to the Remington, but a fine shotgun)
Benelli Nova (The GLOCK of the Shotgun Market)

Semi-Autos
Benelli M1 Super 90 (King of the Semi-Auto)
Browning Auto 5 (If it was good enough to be cut down as a whip it gun for Bonnie and Clyde then it's good enough for me)
Mossberg 930 (A new comer but something that looks promising. If my Benelli M1 Super 90 can survive a Argentinian Dove hunt and nothing else does but a Mossberg 930 does then that means it eats nails and craps napalm.)


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Mossberg 930 SPX (my next purchase)

I'm selling a older XM177 build to fund this little shotgun project. Yeah... me selling my guns. Strange I know but hey; even I need to sacrifice a few sheep for a higher calling.
 
Whats the barrel length on that and can you make me one? That would be perfect for my 2 man. Whats the spec's?
 
My dad used to hunt with an Auto-5 that is a beast of a weapon and my dad said it was best for the boars, because it takes a few rounds to knock them down.
 
SHERMAN said:
My dad used to hunt with an Auto-5 that is a beast of a weapon and my dad said it was best for the boars, because it takes a few rounds to knock them down.
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hehe I have always had a great deal of success using an L1A1 on wild pig also works well on deer, sheep, dogs, cows and stray cats, sorry still not a shotgun fan.

:)
 
MontyB said:
hehe I have always had a great deal of success using an L1A1 on wild pig also works well on deer, sheep, dogs, cows and stray cats, sorry still not a shotgun fan.

:)
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I'm a fan of the rifle but the shotgun is the one firearm to own. It can do what everything else cannot. Sure, you're limited on many things but the shotgun can hunt small game like mice, rat, and small bird, it can be used to hunt hog, deer, and people, and it can also be used to fight and win.

Bird Shot, Slug, Buck Shot, Turkey Shot, Powdered Metal Slug, Rifled Slug, etc.... If I was limited to one firearm it would be a firearm.
 
Bird Shot, Slug, Buck Shot, Turkey Shot, Powdered Metal Slug, Rifled Slug, etc.... If I was limited to one firearm it would be a firearm.
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I agree...and for defending your home its very good, short range but very very leathal
 
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