Russian President bans sales of weapons to Iran - Page 3




 
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September 28th, 2010  
Shmack
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prapor
Principles matter more than money.
Currently i can identify Russia's only principle here at this case as lack of principles. We had a deal, we had a contract and we had certain commitments to Iran. We've been ignoring all US-imposed sanctions for years, and now all of a sudden we say: 'Sorry, but the deal is off'. I don't see anything the United States made in return. Still no World Trade Organization membership, still no elimination of sanctions concerning cooperation with Russian hi-tech companies... Nothing. Nothing except cancellation of ABM preparations in Europe which would be cancelled anyway. This is no deal. So, from what we know today Russia just betrayed its own commercial interests, sacrificed its image of one of just a few independent arms traders and all this reminds me of Gorbachev. Haste, naivete and idealism.
September 28th, 2010  
Prapor
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmack
Currently i can identify Russia's only principle here at this case as lack of principles. We had a deal, we had a contract and we had certain commitments to Iran. We've been ignoring all US-imposed sanctions for years, and now all of a sudden we say: 'Sorry, but the deal is off'. I don't see anything the United States made in return. Still no World Trade Organization membership, still no elimination of sanctions concerning cooperation with Russian hi-tech companies... Nothing. Nothing except cancellation of ABM preparations in Europe which would be cancelled anyway. This is no deal. So, from what we know today Russia just betrayed its own commercial interests, sacrificed its image of one of just a few independent arms traders and all this reminds me of Gorbachev. Haste, naivete and idealism.
No, principles as in, I do not want my country to have anything at all to do with a terrorist regime that stones people (women!) to death, sponsors groups like Hamas and Hezbollah (and sells weapons to Taliban according to some sources), shoots unarmed protesters to death.

Sorry, friend, there are still people left in Russia, very few of us, admittedly, who feel that honor matters more than money, that we msut not sell our values, and do business with disgusting religious tyrants.
September 28th, 2010  
LeMask
 
Prapor, stonning is banned in Iran since the Islamic revolution.

Check your facts.

Propaganda anyone?
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September 28th, 2010  
Prapor
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMask
Prapor, stonning is banned in Iran since the Islamic revolution.
Tell that to Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/...-sentence.html

You are the one pushing pro-Iranian propaganda here, friend.
September 28th, 2010  
LeMask
 
Its propaganda.

I know this file as I've heard a lot about it.

1- Lapidation is not practiced in Iran.
They kill people by hanging.

2- Sakineh is not accused of adultery but of murder.

3- Another man is accused of intervening in the murder of her husband (her lover).
And they are both facing death sentence by hanging for murder.

And I was told that it's not even her picture...
September 30th, 2010  
Shmack
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prapor
No, principles as in, I do not want my country to have anything at all to do with a terrorist regime that stones people (women!) to death, sponsors groups like Hamas and Hezbollah (and sells weapons to Taliban according to some sources), shoots unarmed protesters to death.

Sorry, friend, there are still people left in Russia, very few of us, admittedly, who feel that honor matters more than money, that we msut not sell our values, and do business with disgusting religious tyrants.
You and very few of those like you are guided by ignorance and/or politics, not honor. If one doesn't sell weapons to Hamas or Taliban, it's not because of his high principles, but because this market is occupied. Unfortunately most of Russia's, let alone the United States, clients are countries where they hardly ever heared anything about civil liberties (and might you know, in comparison with most of them and even with Russia in some aspects, Iran is a relatively democratic society). Should we cancel arms trade with all of them and be very proud of that? Why bothering Iran? Belarus is also a dictatorship which is in addition poor in contrast to Iran. And finally, we ourselves are too far from being a free country to be guided by this philosophy in our foreign politics.

If our ministery of defence is stupid enough to cut all ties with Iran I assure you, it wan't take even 5 years that you'll see Iranians firing from M-16s and flying F-16s, or Chinese crap.
September 30th, 2010  
LeMask
 
Shmack is trying to face the truth.

I think that he is now a dangerous revolutionary mind we have to stop at all cost.

Is there a free cell in Guetmo?

Just kidding, but Shmack is doing here a real intellectual effort most people, and even journalist refuse to do. I say refuse to do and not "cannot do".

Iran is a country with a lot of problems and issues they have to deal with. But it's not yet the evil power described by its enemies.

So now Russia and China can sell them assault rifles... Nuclear reactors, but they cant sell them anti-air defenses?

You let them pay for a technology and you refuse to sell them the technology to protect this technology?

So, Russia believes in the Iranian project enough to let them buy nuclear reactor, but to let them buy anti air missiles... Their version of the story isnt good enough?

And in my opinion, these missiles had a huge potential to act like deterrent to tell the Israeli air force and the US air force to stay in their bases...
Now, Iran is defenseless against high tech air strikes... And knowing the arrogance of Iran's enemies... They are coming soon.

Get ready for WWIII. And like Einstein said, we will fight WW4 with stones and sticks...
September 30th, 2010  
Prapor
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmack
You and very few of those like you are guided by ignorance and/or politics, not honor. If one doesn't sell weapons to Hamas or Taliban, it's not because of his high principles, but because this market is occupied. Unfortunately most of Russia's, let alone the United States, clients are countries where they hardly ever heared anything about civil liberties (and might you know, in comparison with most of them and even with Russia in some aspects, Iran is a relatively democratic society). Should we cancel arms trade with all of them and be very proud of that? Why bothering Iran? Belarus is also a dictatorship which is in addition poor in contrast to Iran. And finally, we ourselves are too far from being a free country to be guided by this philosophy in our foreign politics.

If our ministery of defence is stupid enough to cut all ties with Iran I assure you, it wan't take even 5 years that you'll see Iranians firing from M-16s and flying F-16s, or Chinese crap.
Not, it is not ignorance, Shmack. You talk about Iran 'firing from' whatever. Why don't you think about firing at who? Firing at Israel, mostly. Throught their proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah. You want Russia to arm Iran and, thus, Hamas and Hezbollah, while there are maybe one and a half million people in Israel who share our culture and speak our language? Do you know that half of their air force speaks Russian at home? There are many of our compatriots there, last Presidential election, 15 polling stations opened in Israel. And, on the other hand, there are 90,000 Israeli citizens living, working, and doing business in Moscow too.

What I am against, Shmack, is our government selling weapons to a regime that will then use those weapons to kill our people, and those are our people, Shmack. I do not want to see Russian boys serving in Tzahal shot at with Kalashnikov, Mukha, or any of our missile weapons. I do not want Russia making money at the expense of its citizens lives.

If Americans or Chinese want to deal with Iran, let them. At least we'd know clearly who the enemy is: who arms those who attack our citizens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMask

So now Russia and China can sell them assault rifles... Nuclear reactors, but they cant sell them anti-air defenses?
Not nuclear either. Rifles are okay, for now. Not for long, I hope.
September 30th, 2010  
LeMask
 
Prapor, do you support Israel because they speak Russian and have a Russian citizenship?

What kind of support is that?

You share my language then I love you? You dont look like me then I dont care about you?

Support Israel as much as you want, but not for these reasons... It's weak.

And by the way, you are not helping Israel by disarming Iran. Because Israel is a danger to itself since they elected these extremist right wingers and decided to side with the US rather than to build strong relations with their neighbors.

Israel will never care to invest in real peace as long as its potential enemies are defenseless.

Well... Poor judgement in my opinion.
September 30th, 2010  
Prapor
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMask
Prapor, do you support Israel because they speak Russian and have a Russian citizenship?

What kind of support is that?

You share my language then I love you? You dont look like me then I dont care about you?

Support Israel as much as you want, but not for these reasons... It's weak.

And by the way, you are not helping Israel by disarming Iran. Because Israel is a danger to itself since they elected these extremist right wingers and decided to side with the US rather than to build strong relations with their neighbors.

Israel will never care to invest in real peace as long as its potential enemies are defenseless.

Well... Poor judgement in my opinion.
Yes. Just like Turkish support Palestinians because they are Muslims, I support Israelis because at least 1 in 5 of them is like me. I have friends there, one of my uncles lives in Haifa, along with his wife and three sons, the eldest of them serving in Tzahal. I am proud of that too, LeMask.

You say you love that about Muslims: they don't care about borders, only about where Muslims live. Well, I am the same way, how about that?

And you can't build relations with neighbors who shoot at you, want to kill you, and refuse to recognize your right to exist.
 


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