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Russian Air Force modernazation program
Ski8799
Active member
Interesting, it looks like it may be too little too late with so much of General Dynamics and Grumman products already all over the globe. They're even dragging their feet with the weapons upgrades, even now, I don't know if there is hope of them creating another serious cold war in this arena. The F-22 is the best thing to ever happen to the USAF. I saw it show off it's thrust vectoring tech. at Langley AFB in 2007, remarkable.
The thing about being in second place is all you have to do is steel the research done by our opponent then duplicat it. Unfortently the Soviet Union has alway been good at steeling our secrets. Opps did I say Sovet Union well same deal. I am looking forward to the new cold war it will inforce order in the world. The Russians are not stupid or crazy unlike the Muslim terrorists which are both that make them unpredictable and dangerous.
Bacara
Active member
It also costs over 200 million and is consantly skyrocketing in price. So in the event of a war with, lets say, China or Russia, will be like the germans in WWII, we build supreme fighting machines, but their just not producable. They must be held in special and expensive hangars, and no semi-prepared land strip capality unlike all russian and chinese fighters. Also because they are so expensive they can fly only at night, just like all stealth aircraft.
I seriously doubt that in open all out war with russia or china the US will refuse the use of stealth aircraft at night. Either way ,standing where we stand now technologically, NATO will prefare to fight at night anyhow. It is true that the new russian vehicles and aircraft have good night capabilities, but their reserve units and what you would refer to as the "quantity" is completely hopeless in night time operations against the NATO TI equpiment.
I an war with China or Russia it will be attrician warfare that is why we need numbers! Also our liminted forces can't be every place at the same time, their second line forces can strike in different locations while elete units attack yet another location.
I would expect a war with Russia to include pin point missile attacks on air fields followed up by air raids. These missile attacks would be massive and attack all air fields in the Region capible in interfering with ground or air operations. Forcing allied aircraft to fly a long way to the battle then and need to refuel in flight several times.
Yes I know some incoming missiles would be shot down but not enough in theory.
I would expect a war with Russia to include pin point missile attacks on air fields followed up by air raids. These missile attacks would be massive and attack all air fields in the Region capible in interfering with ground or air operations. Forcing allied aircraft to fly a long way to the battle then and need to refuel in flight several times.
Yes I know some incoming missiles would be shot down but not enough in theory.
Ski8799
Active member
We got that covered too, the F-35 II under the JSF or Joint Strike Fighter program is the DOD's answer to limited or no airstrips with much improved VTOL over the Harrier. And they're cheap in comparison to the F-22. The Navy just bought a whole **** load of em.
BTW, the F-22 is so maneuverable, so well armed, so fast and so......stealthy, that only 2 F-22s can take out a squadron of MIGs, that was on Dogfights on the History Channel.
We're pretty much gonna continue to own the air.
Bacara
Active member
any russian fighter can out maneuvere the F-22, and if the Russians and the Chinese devolop low-frequency radar like i know they will, which the only problem with it is the clutter, which a computer can handle, the F-22 will be worthless as it was designed with stealth as its advantange.
We got that covered too, the F-35 II under the JSF or Joint Strike Fighter program is the DOD's answer to limited or no airstrips with much improved VTOL over the Harrier. And they're cheap in comparison to the F-22. The Navy just bought a whole **** load of em.
BTW, the F-22 is so maneuverable, so well armed, so fast and so......stealthy, that only 2 F-22s can take out a squadron of MIGs, that was on Dogfights on the History Channel.
We're pretty much gonna continue to own the air.
Ski8799
Active member
I'm....speechless, I don't think that you've got your data right there. The F-22 will own anything, yes anything in the air.
1) its signals intelligence and avionics are unprecedented, it will discover bogies 30 miles before their opponent discovers them. Yes, 30 miles.
2) the thrust vectoring is another incredible development as it will allow the raptor to turn very sharply and approach bogies at an extremely high angle of attack, this is critical, it will literally outperform anything.
3)detection by the enemy will be nearly impossible with the following sensors to eliminate detection by; radar sig., visual, infrared, acoustic, radio frequency.
4) internally carried armament, the new AMRAAM with a significant increase in range, the new JDAM for close air support.
I saw an F-22 at langley, the thrust vectoring is truly remarkable.
This is just a taste of what the F-22 brings to the table, when compared to the MIG-31, well, I probably wouldn't even bother as the comparison is almost ridiculous.
Like I said, the US will continue to own the air.
major liability
Active member
I think the newer Russian planes with thrust vectoring can outmaneuver the Raptor, but that only matters in close range. Good luck getting there.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
When it comes to avionics, pilot situational awareness, weapon quality etc., your American fighter jet is much better.
The Russian stuff is the same as usual. Advertised as being way better and cheaper than the American stuff and when a war rolls around, the only part that turns out to be true is the cheaper part.
The Russian stuff is the same as usual. Advertised as being way better and cheaper than the American stuff and when a war rolls around, the only part that turns out to be true is the cheaper part.
Bacara
Active member
avionics yes, situational awareness yes, weapons no, russian missiles are just as good as american in the case off close range missiles they are better at getting through flars.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
It means the American will have the first chance to shoot.
Bacara
Active member
yes but the russians and especially the chinese are quickly catching up in avoinics.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
They always say "quickly catching up."
Despite all the hype you know when most experts predict the Chinese will catch up with the US? At least 50 years later. That's their idea of "quickly catching up." That is of course assuming the US does nothing.
The Russians have made some great air frames before but in terms of radar and other things, they still have some serious catching up to do.
Despite all the hype you know when most experts predict the Chinese will catch up with the US? At least 50 years later. That's their idea of "quickly catching up." That is of course assuming the US does nothing.
The Russians have made some great air frames before but in terms of radar and other things, they still have some serious catching up to do.
major liability
Active member
They're going to have to steal our technology to have any hope of catching up. We spend almost as much as the rest of the world combined on defense. How do you catch up with something that is advancing faster than you are, and has had a big head start?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
To be honest I am not sure your comparison is accurate because until you put two evenly matched pilots against each other you cannot really measure the quality of the aircraft.
My personal opinion is that the gap isn't as great as you might think between top Russian and American aircraft.
Again same thing, you reach a point where the % return on investment is decreasing all the time so while you are staying ahead in terms of development what you are developing is only fractionally better than what already exists, unless of course you make a breakthrough which isn't all that frequent.
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Comrade most of our defense money is going to pay retirements and other things such as pay, BAQ and other human services.
That is how.
Not to mention we are using our military right now and it is getting worn out.
Russia
Russia has bought for themselves less then 40 fighters in ten years and still lag far behind in training hours. They have less then (2) squadrons of upgraded Su-27M1 now, most of their regular Su-27s and Mig-29s can't even fire there best radar guided missile the AA-12. One can only assume those useless Bear flights most likely push there tanker assets to the limits.
Those Su-34 I think less then (8) 8 test frames have been built, there Su-24s will be used for many more years to come.
In theory the Su-27M1 match up very well against our F/A18, F-15, and F-16s but lack of flight hours, spare parts, missiles, and current trained pilots make the Russia AF an almost non threat.
Russia has bought for themselves less then 40 fighters in ten years and still lag far behind in training hours. They have less then (2) squadrons of upgraded Su-27M1 now, most of their regular Su-27s and Mig-29s can't even fire there best radar guided missile the AA-12. One can only assume those useless Bear flights most likely push there tanker assets to the limits.
Those Su-34 I think less then (8) 8 test frames have been built, there Su-24s will be used for many more years to come.
In theory the Su-27M1 match up very well against our F/A18, F-15, and F-16s but lack of flight hours, spare parts, missiles, and current trained pilots make the Russia AF an almost non threat.
The Other Guy
Spam King
The USAF could flatten the Russian Air Force right now. However, we've made about as many advancements in the last 20 years as they have. The F-16, and F-18 were both replacing F-4s in the mid 1980s, around the time the Flanker and Fulcrum were new. The only major difference is the introduction of the F-22.