Russia vs Georgia What really happened there?

[darkgreensoldier666]

I heard that Georgia was interested in war for faster become to the NATO
USA was interested for McCane popolarity and Russia interested to reabilitate her millitary strenght and show that they are tough


and what is the really story of the war ?

 

[Zastava-Arms]

Well, who knows.

I am a bit skeptical of the "South Ossetia and Abkhazia should be free" reason that Russia claims.

 

[Panzercracker]

I heard that Georgia was interested in war for faster become to the NATO
USA was interested for McCane popolarity and Russia interested to reabilitate her millitary strenght and show that they are tough


and what is the really story of the war ?

There's multiple sides to it.

1. Georgia was a potential route for a gas pipeline that could threaten Russian energetic dominance (reason for Russian intervention)

Basically all the Russian propaganda about Abkasia and Osetia is just smoke cover, they're sitting on the would-be pipeline route sucuring their energetic hold on Europe.

2. Georgian goverment was just stupid and believed Russia would not use the invasion as an excuse.

3. Thats where facts stop and my theory starts: USA encouraged Georgia to attack hinting it would support them but in reality they knew Russia would invade, their goal was to cut Europe off from non-Russian gas.

US is not happy about EU, the potential superstate could challenge their dominance so they try to play Russia against EU and thats the best way they could do it.

 

[cisco]

You have some good points there

There's multiple sides to it.

1. Georgia was a potential route for a gas pipeline that could threaten Russian energetic dominance (reason for Russian intervention)

And Russia actually get a bit nervous about the Nato taking in all its neighbours. As the USA would id Canada and mexico had joined the warsaw pakt.

Basically all the Russian propaganda about Abkasia and Osetia is just smoke cover, they're sitting on the would-be pipeline route sucuring their energetic hold on Europe.

Well, neither russia, nor the USA or even germany actually gives a **** about some small countries they pretend to "protect". Just look at this farce in afghanistan. Democracy? With these manipulated elections? Human rights, when a Karzai gouvernment makes laws about females rights wich far outpass even the Taliban?

2. Georgian goverment was just stupid and believed Russia would not use the invasion as an excuse.

Yup, actually unbelivable stupid. I mean, they have been part of the soviet union for ages and still didn't get it?

3. Thats where facts stop and my theory starts: USA encouraged Georgia to attack hinting it would support them but in reality they knew Russia would invade, their goal was to cut Europe off from non-Russian gas.

You could have a point here. Also a current pipeline goes straight through poland, one of the greatest USA Supporters in east europe and they arent leased about the projects to have piplines left and right of them.

US is not happy about EU, the potential superstate could challenge their dominance so they try to play Russia against EU and thats the best way they could do it.

Could be, if you take into account that France, England and germany had quite good lelations to russia in the past, even if allianced used to change from time to time. Especially germany does quite some business with russia right now. And than there are, as I said, some former warsaw pakt states, like poland or georgia, who are rather great fans of the usa and have some, understandable, issues with russia. All in all, a quite complex situation.

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

So USA Goal was to cut Russian GAS out of Europe ???

And today everybody accusing Georgia in invasion to South Osetia ???
I guess you right=>Georgians so stupid !!

but I can't understand the connection to the NATO.
how that war would accelerate Georgia to NATO ? (I mean if i was NATO I wouldn't take them).


And one more question Why USA interested to put Russia as a main threat ???

wouldn't it be better to unite USA and Russia against real Threats ???
The cold war is over , Russia is weak today , and there is Countries that really have to worry about.

 

[cisco]

>So USA Goal was to cut Russian GAS out of Europe ???

Rather playing around a bit and causing some inconveniance.

And today everybody accusing Georgia in invasion to South Osetia ???
I guess you right=>Georgians so stupid !!

Uhm, well, they actually did. We could argue about South Ossetias Right to declare themself independend, but thats not the point here. Status Quo was a South ossetia invaded by georgian troops. Please keep in Mind I'm not saying one site was wrong and the other right.

but I can't understand the connection to the NATO.
how that war would accelerate Georgia to NATO ? (I mean if i was NATO I wouldn't take them).

It's a bit complicated, one one hand, Georgia was promised Nato membership, mainly by the USA who want more eastern euroean countries in there. On the Other hand, the core euroean countries (maybe I should say the core euroean Nato countries) haven't been that pleased with that idea. So flexing muscles, some certain georgian resident thought, might show these olde euroean countries what mighty ally georgia could be. Backfired a bit.

 

[cisco]

I should ad

by the USuporting georgias nato membershi, georgia could have thought the USA will support them when retakking south Ossetia as well. I think it was a mix of the gouvernment being naive, mixed signals from the west, different agendas of the US and The Core EU wich lead georgia to use military force. It should have been clear tat russia would not simply accept 1st: another nato member at its borders, meddeling of the west in what they think is their zone of influence and jeoarding their vital economic interests.

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

And if they were succeed on this operations what would happen ??

Europe was cut out gas ...
S.Osetia were ruined (yes I understand no body cares about them )...
what's the claim ???

They hoped that europe would think that Russian has problems with gas delivery and going to another countries for gas ??

that would take years no ? to build a pipeline from emirates or whatever ...
I think that pipelines Idea a bit ridiculus ... or there is any point that I miss ?

 

[cisco]

And if they were succeed on this operations what would happen ??

Europe was cut out gas ...
S.Osetia were ruined (yes I understand no body cares about them )...
what's the claim ???

They hoped that europe would think that Russian has problems with gas delivery and going to another countries for gas ??

that would take years no ? to build a pipeline from emirates or whatever ...
I think that pipelines Idea a bit ridiculus ... or there is any point that I miss ?

As I said, it is a bit more than that. Russia belives that this part of the world is its zone as influence, as on the other hand the USA think about south america, carribian and some other parts of the world. Why do you think we have this Cuba Prtoblem?
Than there is poland, great supporter of the usa but pissed about a few attemts to deliver russian gas avoiding transporting it via poland, Than there is the fact that the area including south ossetia and georgia and neighbour countries is full of ressources. To name just a few reasons. Everyone right now tries to get a grip on economically vital ressources. Why do you think ther's no "1st World" nation not meddeling in one or another conflict right now?

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

As I said, it is a bit more than that. Russia belives that this part of the world is its zone as influence, as on the other hand the USA think about south america, carribian and some other parts of the world. Why do you think we have this Cuba Prtoblem?
Than there is poland, great supporter of the usa but pissed about a few attemts to deliver russian gas avoiding transporting it via poland, Than there is the fact that the area including south ossetia and georgia and neighbour countries is full of ressources. To name just a few reasons. Everyone right now tries to get a grip on economically vital ressources. Why do you think ther's no "1st World" nation not meddeling in one or another conflict right now?

Exactly the reason I asked because I don't understand it in a big picture...
Almost all the modern wars are caused by economics ...
in the other hand just after thhe conflict in Georgia Ukraine cut the gas to Europe and I see no claim :-/

and I think USA mistook there because of they shouldn't bet on Georgia.
but there is big goal that USA succed that Warsaw-Pakt getting smaller.

another one I don;t understand why Ukraine join NATO Russia really influencing Ukraine and joining NATO just made them a lot of troubles?

 

[cisco]

Exactly the reason I asked because I don't understand it in a big picture...
Almost all the modern wars are caused by economics ...
in the other hand just after thhe conflict in Georgia Ukraine cut the gas to Europe and I see no claim :-/

Of course all wars about economics, they always have been, they are and they will be. About the ukraina cutting off the gas supply to euroe, they have their own issues with russia and euroe needs the gas, so europe (it should be western europe) is dragged in by the ukraine. If this is a good idea, well we will se in the future.

and I think USA mistook there because of they shouldn't bet on Georgia.
but there is big goal that USA succed that Warsaw-Pakt getting smaller.

The warsaw akt is history for quite some time. The western countries did make some romises to russia during the time the warsaw akt broke up (wich was caused on a big part by russia). But keeping romises and politics never went along well.

another one I don;t understand why Ukraine join NATO Russia really influencing Ukraine and joining NATO just made them a lot of troubles?

History? you may search around the net a bit.

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

History? you may search around the net a bit.

Yes I should but have no strenghts too much desinformation today ,
I think we will never know a whole picture (.

 

[Panzercracker]

So USA Goal was to cut Russian GAS out of Europe ???

Yup, if EU would engage in a joint energetic venture like that it would be an incredible cementing activity, US is not a friend of Europe, its ready to do business with respective European states but it doesnt want a superstate to emerge and will do everything to hinder it.

And today everybody accusing Georgia in invasion to South Osetia ???
I guess you right=>Georgians so stupid !!

If i'm correct then US gave clear signals of giving them help but indeed Georgia acted stupidly.

how that war would accelerate Georgia to NATO ? (I mean if i was NATO I wouldn't take them).

Georgia will never be in NATO, thats just an argument to draw attention from real issue which is US f*cking with Europe, big time.

And one more question Why USA interested to put Russia as a main threat ???

Because then USA itself is not perceived as a threat and can capitalize on the fear factor by getting political concessions from Eastern Europe and further tearing EU apart.

wouldn't it be better to unite USA and Russia against real Threats ???
The cold war is over , Russia is weak today , and there is Countries that really have to worry about.

You have to undestand that USA is a hegemony, it wants to keep being a hegemony, it has no business in benevolent policies if they lead it to lose its position as global empire.

USA needs Russia as the "big enemy" and Russian goverment is too entangled in its own post communist mindset to notice so USA will manipulate Russia against Europe with a carrot/stick strategy, Washington has no business in being buddies with anyone atm.

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

Yup, if EU would engage in a joint energetic venture like that it would be an incredible cementing activity, US is not a friend of Europe, its ready to do business with respective European states but it doesnt want a superstate to emerge and will do everything to hinder it.

If i'm correct then US gave clear signals of giving them help but indeed Georgia acted stupidly.


Georgia will never be in NATO, thats just an argument to draw attention from real issue which is US f*cking with Europe, big time.


Because then USA itself is not perceived as a threat and can capitalize on the fear factor by getting political concessions from Eastern Europe and further tearing EU apart.

You have to undestand that USA is a hegemony, it wants to keep being a hegemony, it has no business in benevolent policies if they lead it to lose its position as global empire.

USA needs Russia as the "big enemy" and Russian goverment is too entangled in its own post communist mindset to notice so USA will manipulate Russia against Europe with a carrot/stick strategy, Washington has no business in being buddies with anyone atm.

Ok , but as I told Russia is too weak to day to put them as BIG ENEMY
what about china or IRAN ?

 

[Panzercracker]

Ok , but as I told Russia is too weak to day to put them as BIG ENEMY
what about china or IRAN ?

Its not a question of actually being an enemy, its all about demonizing Russia so people see it as a big enemy.

Iran is not an enemy of anyone, it doesnt even call for destruction of Israel (it was mistranslated - the guy basically said "zionism that rules Israel has to be destroyed) not to mention Iran is not Iraq, invading it is a whole lot more difficult.

China holds US by the balls with its massive massive debt, USA never picks an enemy that can fight back, thats one of the golden rules of their policy after cold war.

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

Its not a question of actually being an enemy, its all about demonizing Russia so people see it as a big enemy.

Iran is not an enemy of anyone, it doesnt even call for destruction of Israel (it was mistranslated - the guy basically said "zionism that rules Israel has to be destroyed) not to mention Iran is not Iraq, invading it is a whole lot more difficult.

China holds US by the balls with its massive massive debt, USA never picks an enemy that can fight back, thats one of the golden rules of their policy after cold war.

OKaaay .. I meant Iran as possible nucklear threat ..
but Ok ..

 

[Panzercracker]

OKaaay .. I meant Iran as possible nucklear threat ..
but Ok ..

Why is Iran a possible nuclear threat? Israel has nukes, US has nukes, Russia has nukes, heck even Pakistan which is threatened by Islam extremists has nukes and suddenly Iran becomes a nuclear threat?

Start thinking for yourself.

 

[George]

Why is Iran a possible nuclear threat? Israel has nukes, US has nukes, Russia has nukes, heck even Pakistan which is threatened by Islam extremists has nukes and suddenly Iran becomes a nuclear threat?

Start thinking for yourself.

And exactly how do you think I'm-a-nut-job intends to wipe out Zionism?As far as Russia being a threat, maybe maybe not, but Putin seems to be rolling back things to authoritarian rule, kinda like late Wiemar Republic days.

 

[Panzercracker]

And exactly how do you think I'm-a-nut-job intends to wipe out Zionism?

The guy NEVER said Iran needs to wipe out Zionism, the fact is that it was deliberately mistranslated to get people worked up, if Iran was THAT determined they'd just drop some biological agents into Israeli rivers.

Yes Iran is a barbaric state by our standards but its not an international threat, far less than USA (which actually used nukes) Israel (which was preparing to use them during Yom Kippur) or for example Pakistan if it gets overrun by extremists.

The only two reasons its being targeted is because Israel fears a nuclear rival in the region (as long as Jews have nukes they can do heck-all they like if someone else gets the stick they'll have to be more civil) and by US which tries to turn the populace attention away from the fact that their economy is collapsing.

Russia is not a threat, in fact the specifics of Russian economy (there's no economy apart from fossil exports) means that Russia will cease to exist as a sovereign state in the next 20-50 years if it doesnt reform itself.

 

[Britney]

US is not happy about EU, the potential superstate could challenge their dominance so they try to play Russia against EU and thats the best way they could do it.

Could be, if you take into account that France, England and germany had quite good lelations to russia in the past, even if allianced used to change from time to time. Especially germany does quite some business with russia right now. And than there are, as I said, some former warsaw pakt states, like poland or georgia, who are rather great fans of the usa and have some, understandable, issues with russia. All in all, a quite complex situation.

Not happy? I'm thrilled the EU is doing so well, i think its wonderful to have such a strong ally and friend. ( im not thrilled with the hate on you tube, but that door swings both ways i guess)


I think what happened is much more simple. Russia is afraid of NATO, whats more Russia is afraid of NATO's growing influence along it;s borders. With it;s former slave-states abandoning Russia over the last 20 years Its feeling boxed in strategically. It needed to assert that it was still in charge of the regain not NATO. By attacking a potential member of NATO- Russia makes Georgia seem like a high-risk nation for NATO to take it as it could be dragged into a war with Russia or even the SCO.

Gas may have been part of the reason, i noticed Russia tried pretty hard to sever the pipe with missile strikes and with it finds itself holding Eastern Europe by the balls on energy- perhaps even Western Europe. By attacking the pipeline Russia asures its the go to place for energy and can keep charging the high rates for it.