Russia vs Georgia What really happened there?

Not happy? I'm thrilled the EU is doing so well, i think its wonderful to have such a strong ally and friend. ( im not thrilled with the hate on you tube, but that door swings both ways i guess)
You may be thrilled but your goverment is not, for half a century there has not been a serious contender to American power.

Various countries did not have economical, geopolitical or ideological backbone to challenge US, UE has more people, more GDP, is on par technologically, the only thing it lacks is unity to share resources and technology but its getting there

Why would EU follow American interests (which are often against European ones) if it becomes stronger then USA?

I think what happened is much more simple. Russia is afraid of NATO,
NATO is a toothless beast, there's not even a defence plan if its attacked, its more of a declaration of intent then anything else.
whats more Russia is afraid of NATO's growing influence along it;s borders.
NATO's influence is no longer growing and Russia is afraid of nothing, if you follow what Putin and Miedviedev are doing, these guys attempt to rebuild Russian empire.

As for holding Europe by the balls, it does, all of Europe.
 
It seems to me that the Russians want to rule their own little playground in the Eastern Bloc like the used to have, and they viewed the moves by the rest of Europe on Georgia as infringement on their sphere of influence, so when they saw an opportunity to bully Georgia into saying what's what they took it. They knew the US wasn't going to respond, they timed it to match with the start of the Olympics; it was really a brilliantly executed plan.

The bad thing, other than Georgia being obliterated? It made the US look bad when they failed to defend their supposed allies, possibly making countries think twice about joining the US for support. And it made the countries to Russia's immediate East sit up and take notice. Poland, who had been holding out for ages on the European Missile Defense Deal with the US was suddenly very eager to get the deal signed.

It was an awful situation, and the only country that benefited was Russia.
 
You may be thrilled but your goverment is not, for half a century there has not been a serious contender to American power.

Various countries did not have economical, geopolitical or ideological backbone to challenge US, UE has more people, more GDP, is on par technologically, the only thing it lacks is unity to share resources and technology but its getting there

Why would EU follow American interests (which are often against European ones) if it becomes stronger then USA?


NATO is a toothless beast, there's not even a defence plan if its attacked, its more of a declaration of intent then anything else.

NATO's influence is no longer growing and Russia is afraid of nothing, if you follow what Putin and Miedviedev are doing, these guys attempt to rebuild Russian empire.

As for holding Europe by the balls, it does, all of Europe.


Oh i disagree, i think our representatives would like nothing better then a strong united Europe. I find the whole idea of Europe becoming as strong as the US very exciting and strategical reassuring- who would ever threaten either of us again? Russia wouldn't dare point nukes at either of us again, not with such a strong military and economic partnership. If it ever did decide to threaten either of us again we could between us drive it economically into the dust and not have to worry about tanks rolling into West Germany like in the cold war.


I like the idea of friendly economic competition. Competition is our way of life, it makes us better at everything we do. A friendly economic competition between the US and the EU would only make us both stronger in the long run.


Why do you say Europe's interests are different than ours? We share common goals, heritage, and culture. Europe is further left then we are, but thats no reason to think we dont share a common interest. As long as Europe is a democratic place, why should we care how they want to govern themselves, as its the will of it's people.

A toothless beast? Its the ultimate alliance! No one would dare to attack us and expect to live after! The best alliance is one that scares the into into never attacking. NATO represents 80% of global military spending, Russia would be mad to attack it, so the only ones we have to worry about are psychopathic terrorists- but they are a exception to the rules..They dont represent a single country and are hard to retaliate against.

I think it's influence is still expanding, between the Ukraine and Georgia former soviet puppet-states being promised a spot in NATO is a major expansion. I think Kosovo and Croatia are being looked at too now that things are settling down in the Balkans. Putin is definitely trying to rebuilt the russian empire again..no question, but i think he lost a lot of momentum in this economic crisis that hit russia worse then a lot of other countries. Now he has to worry about oil prices and depleting reserves of it, losing it's ally iran, and battling unrest. I think if NATO takes a harder approach he will stop, but thats more of a hope.
 
Last edited:
Oh i disagree, i think our representatives would like nothing better then a strong united Europe. I find the whole idea of Europe becoming as strong as the US very exciting and strategical reassuring- who would ever threaten either of us again? Russia wouldn't dare point nukes at either of us again, not with such a strong military and economic partnership. If it ever did decide to threaten either of us again we could between us drive it economically into the dust and not have to worry about tanks rolling into West Germany like in the cold war.


I like the idea of friendly economic competition. Competition is our way of life, it makes us better at everything we do. A friendly economic competition between the US and the EU would only make us both stronger in the long run.


Why do you say Europe's interests are different than ours? We share common goals, heritage, and culture. Europe is further left then we are, but thats no reason to think we dont share a common interest. As long as Europe is a democratic place, why should we care how they want to govern themselves, as its the will of it's people.

A toothless beast? Its the ultimate alliance! No one would dare to attack us and expect to live after! The best alliance is one that scares the into into never attacking. NATO represents 80% of global military spending, Russia would be mad to attack it, so the only ones we have to worry about are psychopathic terrorists- but they are a exception to the rules..They dont represent a single country and are hard to retaliate against.

I think it's influence is still expanding, between the Ukraine and Georgia former soviet puppet-states being promised a spot in NATO is a major expansion. I think Kosovo and Croatia are being looked at too now that things are settling down in the Balkans. Putin is definitely trying to rebuilt the russian empire again..no question, but i think he lost a lot of momentum in this economic crisis that hit russia worse then a lot of other countries. Now he has to worry about oil prices and depleting reserves of it, losing it's ally iran, and battling unrest. I think if NATO takes a harder approach he will stop, but thats more of a hope.
Hahahahah....Hah! An Ally who is your equal or superior, is a grave danger. The E.U is already wealthier than the U.S by a large margin, and this makes the U.S very uncomfortable, for once you are economically surpassed, it is only a matter of time before you are surpassed in every other way.

Like Panzercracker, I do not share you apparent Idealism and optimism. NATO is a worthless sack of crap with no unity, no plan incase of attack, and increasing tension between it's member states. For the U.S the absolute worse case scenario is if the E.U's goals are realized and it's member states and quite a few more nations become on sovereign country. Because when that happens, the U.S would no longer be top dog.
 
AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY MAGAZINE (09/14/09) did a great article on the cyber attack against Georgia, "Cyberwar Is Official -Network attack, digital time bombs and information exploitation are now combat standards."
The article tells of a wide spread attack on most important vital systems in Georgia. Not just defense related computers but, also many other computers such as the one that control the power grid! "The attacks created a strategic economic impact. Civilians and criminal organizations in several countries were recruited to aid the military effort. Analysts also suspect that digital time bombs were embedded in Georgian networks to cause future damage." This really points the way future combat will be employed to overload the civilian leadership.

A real eye opening article.
 
One of the big problems in the old eastern bloc countries is that there is now a large Russian Civilian population that has moved into these countries and they want to remain connected to Russia. Now that many of these Countries got Independence the Russians now feel like outsiders and want the the Russian to return so that they have a far greater say in what these countries say and do and that they remain top dogs in other peoples countries.
 
One of the big problems in the old eastern bloc countries is that there is now a large Russian Civilian population that has moved into these countries and they want to remain connected to Russia. Now that many of these Countries got Independence the Russians now feel like outsiders and want the the Russian to return so that they have a far greater say in what these countries say and do and that they remain top dogs in other peoples countries.
Somehow, there are countries among the former Soviet republics who don't see Russian nationals as a problem and they don't feel like engaging in a war because of this. As for Russia's civilians (if you mean passport holders), large ammount of them exists only in Ossetia. When the Soviet Union broke up all residents of all 15 republics recieved their respective citizenships (except Russians in Baltic states who recieved nothing). Those Russians who didn't want to become say Georgian citizens moved to Russia if they had a place or money to go.

By the way, in countries like Turkmenistan the Russians were moved away almost by force, those who managed to stay in the country were discriminated in all the ways possible. So i wouldn't be surprised if these citizens of Turkmenistan not just feel themselves as strangers but they would sell out their 'motherland' at the earliest available opportunity. In this context i've noted that Georgian-born Russians were among the most hard-line advocates of military campaign against Georgia. Tragedy, eh?
 
Last edited:
Somehow, there are countries among the former Soviet republics who don't see Russian nationals as a problem and they don't feel like engaging in a war because of this. As for Russia's civilians (if you mean passport holders), large ammount of them exists only in Ossetia. When the Soviet Union broke up all residents of all 15 republics recieved their respective citizenships (except Russians in Baltic states who recieved nothing). Those Russians who didn't want to become say Georgian citizens moved to Russia if they had a place or money to go.

By the way, in countries like Turkmenistan the Russians were moved away almost by force, those who managed to stay in the country were discriminated in all the ways possible. So i wouldn't be surprised if these citizens of Turkmenistan not just feel themselves as strangers but they would sell out their 'motherland' at the earliest available opportunity. In this context i've noted that Georgian-born Russians were among the most hard-line advocates of military campaign against Georgia. Tragedy, eh?

Don't know about Turkmenistan or Georgia. But, people in Kyrgystan what with the situation there, probably do not feel good. At the peak, 300 a day came to Russian embassy in Bishkek to ask for visas.
 
As for Russia-Georgia.

For Russian government probably it was about the pipelines and the influence.

But, for people like my family, who have loved ones in South Ossetia. Those who lost someone to the initial Georgian attack. That is what it was about, revenge, anger, justice. Russian Army was not the first to go there and fight the Georgians, you know. Cossack and North Ossetian volunteers from Russia, along with South Ossetian men that we armed and came with us, they went first. Not mercenaries, but volunteers, because they were paid nothing for this, except whatever spoils of war they, themselves, take. My father, uncle, my sister's huband, they all went. Because the Georgians killed our friends. Not because of pipelines. You Westerners know nothing.
 
Hahahahah....Hah! An Ally who is your equal or superior, is a grave danger. The E.U is already wealthier than the U.S by a large margin, and this makes the U.S very uncomfortable, for once you are economically surpassed, it is only a matter of time before you are surpassed in every other way.

Like Panzercracker, I do not share you apparent Idealism and optimism. NATO is a worthless sack of crap with no unity, no plan incase of attack, and increasing tension between it's member states. For the U.S the absolute worse case scenario is if the E.U's goals are realized and it's member states and quite a few more nations become on sovereign country. Because when that happens, the U.S would no longer be top dog.

The EU economy has already started to fall apart piece by piece just like the US economy. Proof of this is apparent in the bailout of Greece and the UK, Spain, Portugal and Italy teetering on the edge. On another note the US Navy controls the world's oceans absolutely no doubt about it. Besides even with the EU united with realization of a goal, many of their members are allies with the United States with both sides sharing military tech and weapons. There really wouldn't be any threat emanating from the EU. The real threat against the US at the moment is the Islamic extremists and China.
 
Georgia is stupid, Nato or American wouldn't fight a war against Russian for Georgia. Georgia want to Nato? Are you kidding me ,Georgia are Asian, If they can,so the African countries and India can join Nato,too??
 
The EU economy has already started to fall apart piece by piece just like the US economy. Proof of this is apparent in the bailout of Greece and the UK, Spain, Portugal and Italy teetering on the edge. On another note the US Navy controls the world's oceans absolutely no doubt about it. Besides even with the EU united with realization of a goal, many of their members are allies with the United States with both sides sharing military tech and weapons. There really wouldn't be any threat emanating from the EU. The real threat against the US at the moment is the Islamic extremists and China.

Well, the Brits haven't aknowledged the Euro, and thus will not ve as affected as Greece, Spain and Portugal....they will just have to pull the load along with the rest of the EU.

The number one joke in Germany last year:
A greek, a Spaniard, and a Potugese goes to a bordello, what do they have in common?
Germany will pay the bill...

The real threath against the US (and the western world) is the unsolved problems in the Middle-East, and the unstable totalitary regimes in China and North Korea.
But I would keep an eye on India and Pakistan as well.

Africa is generally unstable, and will continue to be as long as we keep supporting opressive regimes with no actual knowledgde of democracy, but as long as these "Kleptocracies" are busy filling their own pockets, there's no real threath against the western world to be found in the near future.
 
Well, the Brits haven't aknowledged the Euro, and thus will not ve as affected as Greece, Spain and Portugal....they will just have to pull the load along with the rest of the EU.

The number one joke in Germany last year:
A greek, a Spaniard, and a Potugese goes to a bordello, what do they have in common?
Germany will pay the bill...

The real threath against the US (and the western world) is the unsolved problems in the Middle-East, and the unstable totalitary regimes in China and North Korea.
But I would keep an eye on India and Pakistan as well.

Africa is generally unstable, and will continue to be as long as we keep supporting opressive regimes with no actual knowledgde of democracy, but as long as these "Kleptocracies" are busy filling their own pockets, there's no real threath against the western world to be found in the near future.

I completely agree with you. The thing about China is though, as long as they have someone in charge who has the brains to realize that the current Chinese econ cannot survive without the West, they will not be as a big a problem as the Middle East.
 
Back
Top