Royal Navy F***ed

sven hassell

Active member
Once upon a time not so long ago Britain ruled the waves:

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Swap ship ... HMS Exeter has sister boat's crew

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By TOM NEWTON-DUNN
Defence Editor
May 14, 2007


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WARSHIP crews will be taken off their boats and replaced by other sailors after each mission under drastic cost-cutting plans.
The shock policy being drawn up by top brass will end centuries of Royal Navy tradition of each vessel having its own permanent crew.
Critics claim “hot-shipping” could create a fleet of ghost ships manned by crews with no loyalty to them.
It has also sparked fears for safety — with sailors being pushed straight into the frontline on unfamiliar vessels.
Ships have been assigned permanent crews ever since King Henry VIII began to build the first Royal Navy fleet in 1509.
But with a dire shortage of vessels and cash, hot-shipping is one of the only ways Navy chiefs believe they can now meet all the tasks demanded of them by the MoD.

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Sea change ... HMS Edinburgh's crew flew home

Swapping crews means a ship can be left in position across the globe rather than sailing to and from Britain to allow its sailors a break between missions.
A senior Navy source said last night: “We’re being forced to think the unthinkable because the Navy has already been cut to the bone. Of course hot-shipping will be a disaster but it’s the only way we can survive without any more funding.”
Trials for the new policy — dubbed “Sea Swap” — have already begun. Sailors from the Type 42 destroyer HMS Exeter have flown to the South Atlantic to take over sister ship HMS Edinburgh halfway through its ten-month deployment.
Meanwhile, Edinburgh’s 130-strong company have jetted back to the UK to take charge of Exeter. It emerged last year that the Navy could soon be left with just 18 major sea-going ships — compared to 108 at the time of the Falklands War in 1982.
 
Not good. I can see why they are doing it though. The root of the problem is the budget cut.
 
Not good at all.

What happens if there is a national emergence and the RN needs to sortie en force? You have 1 crew for 2 ships.

Secondly, no 2 sisters are exactly identical. One almost has something the other doesn't. Just look at the US Nimitz class. They might look the same on the outside but once you get inside they really arn't.
 
Not good at all.

What happens if there is a national emergence and the RN needs to sortie en force? You have 1 crew for 2 ships.

Secondly, no 2 sisters are exactly identical. One almost has something the other doesn't. Just look at the US Nimitz class. They might look the same on the outside but once you get inside they really arn't.


France worried?
 
Well, Great Britain ain't that great anymore. With the current Islamofacist movement and the anti-war defeatist movement. The United Kingdom will be ripe for picking. Soon the S will HTF and the UK will need to jump into the fray. How are they going to do so with Hot Crews? They cannot! A permanent crew for a ship is needed. No two sister ships are the bloody same.....

Enough of this welfare state crap. Either people start pulling their own weight or they strave to death. You must work for what you want. You cannot expect the state to give you what you want and still expect and strong national defense.
 
The UK could very well end up, if they are not there already, whereby they are in the same boat as Canada and unable to police their own borders due to too few ships because of short sighted budget cuts... row row row your boats gently cross the channel merrily merrily merrily merrily life is such a BOOM!
 
One redeeming aspect to the report is that the Admiralty know it is a stupid move. They are not saying it is a good idea, lets try it. They know it is dumb but are "forced" to do it because of the severity of budget cuts.

That means when Mr Cameron gets into Downing Street and a bit more money flows into the RN we can expect things to get back to normal rather than Admiralty saying "hot shipping" is a great idea and practice.
 
I think its really hard nowadays, to fund a modern , ready military properly in a democracy. But, if you look at the Soviet example decades ago, they had a huge military , hundreds, of tanks, and planes, and millions of military personnel.

But, even under strict communism, they went bankrupt to. Its a scary thought, the UK's Royal Navy is a key player in maritime security on the war on terror. Problems with them, may lead to problems with the other members of the coalition on the war on terror.

(i cant really say much on it, and if id said anything wrong, just kindly correct me)
 
I think its really hard nowadays, to fund a modern , ready military properly in a democracy. But, if you look at the Soviet example decades ago, they had a huge military , hundreds, of tanks, and planes, and millions of military personnel.

But, even under strict communism, they went bankrupt to. Its a scary thought, the UK's Royal Navy is a key player in maritime security on the war on terror. Problems with them, may lead to problems with the other members of the coalition on the war on terror.

(i cant really say much on it, and if id said anything wrong, just kindly correct me)

It's not hard to fund a modern day military force. The problem with the UK right now is it's leftist social welfare economics programs. If the UK stopped spending money on welfare and other feel good measure communist like social welfare programs and folks actually worked for what they need instead of keeping their hands out asking for scraps from the government then the Royal Navy wouldn't be in this issue.

The Soviets went under because social welfare programs don't frakking work. A Soviet citizen said it best... "They pretend to pay us and we'll pretend to work".

The UK (along with France) is in the same boat as the USSR was.

The USA has been doing good (historical) because of our strong capitalistic
work ethic. The idea that you work for what you want instead of asking for a hand out. But sadly that is changing in today's society.
 
Well, I must admit, I am frustrated by what is happening to the Royal Navy.

There are some great ships coming down the pipe: the new Astute class attack submarines and the Daring (Type 45) destroyers are leading edge, but they are already several years late...and getting later... and there will be too few of them (around a third less than there should be).

Meanwhile we are having to make do and mend with a set of ships better suited to the Cold War.

It doesn't help that as the budgets get cut, ships with a very clear purpose ("destroyer = blows stuff up") become general role vessels, "destroyer = blows stuff up and supports humanitarian mission and is the hub of networked warfare capability and launches drones for reconnaissance and...", pushing up their cost, delaying their implementation and generally creating a mess.

Combine that with the fact that, although there has been some new money, most of the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan operations are coming out of the existing military budgets, and there is a serious degrading of capability happening, at least short term.

I think we need to focus on the fact that, although its not taken very seriously here in the UK, and seen as political spin, there really is a global war going on: and the sooner people wake up and smell the coffee the better.
 
So bottom line reads the Navy is suffering because the budget is being raped and the budget is not being increased because people don't want TWAT (The War Against Terror) to inconvenience them... ??
 
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I think more people need to realize, that the nations in the war on terror, are at WAR. 50, to 60 years ago this would have been big. But, if you looked around a city or town in America, you couldn't even see the slightest sign on a global conflicts effects on the citizens.

And socialist ideas are beginning to change the way some nations operate. And, referring to what 5.56X45mm said. People are asking for more, and giving less. I hate to remind them, but, in a democracy like in the UK and U.S., the people are the root source of power in a government, and, if the people, the ones who give the power to the government, lose interests, and neglect it, then, the government may have to adopt socialist or communist ways to keep in operation.

But, looking at the situation, its easy to remember the well known phrase used almost 50 yrs ago,

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

I cant really agrue much on the UK's situation, and I will admit, I dint know much about their social status, so I can only go so far.
 
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I've been reflecting on this a little bit.

I'm not sure if it's socialist ideas (given that socialist societies can be very militaristic) so much as consumerism. People do seem to focus on their next house, their next car, their plasma screen TV, and forget that the security they enjoy has to be paid for too.

There's also been a misunderstanding that just because terrorism can't be defeated by military means, that the security provided by the military is unimportant - when in fact it is military security that stops terrorism from escalating into genocidal civil war.

The enemy may be hard to kill in the mountains or in the slums of Baghdad - and in the end diplomacy may need to be used alongside force - but keeping him bottled up by controlling the air, the sea and the deserts is a key part of victory.
 
Well, I must admit, I am frustrated by what is happening to the Royal Navy.

There are some great ships coming down the pipe: the new Astute class attack submarines and the Daring (Type 45) destroyers are leading edge, but they are already several years late...and getting later... and there will be too few of them (around a third less than there should be).

Meanwhile we are having to make do and mend with a set of ships better suited to the Cold War.

It doesn't help that as the budgets get cut, ships with a very clear purpose ("destroyer = blows stuff up") become general role vessels, "destroyer = blows stuff up and supports humanitarian mission and is the hub of networked warfare capability and launches drones for reconnaissance and...", pushing up their cost, delaying their implementation and generally creating a mess.

Combine that with the fact that, although there has been some new money, most of the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan operations are coming out of the existing military budgets, and there is a serious degrading of capability happening, at least short term.

I think we need to focus on the fact that, although its not taken very seriously here in the UK, and seen as political spin, there really is a global war going on: and the sooner people wake up and smell the coffee the better.

The United States Navy hot bunks Missile Boats, using Gold and Blue Crews for its SSB Fleet.
The United States Navy has no trouble with such, and there are no loyalty issues that I know of to deal with as they are both Crews of the same Sub, one is just called Gold, while the other is called Blue.
This allows the Ballistic Missile Submarine to stay out on Duty longer while giving one Crew a much needed break.

Or would you rather a RIF to affect Naval Personnel? I read you do not have many Ships, so, one is left with few options.

Do you see yourself putting forth legislation calling for an increase in Taxes in order to go back up to a more Cold War Level of Active Duty Ships in the near future?
Willl you run on such a platform?

I know this, such would help ease some of the (undue) burden which I personally perceive is placed on the United States of America by other NATO partners.

Best of luck getting your Compatriots on board.
 
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The problem in the UK is that we are in denial about the global war, and the enemy within. We just don't want to believe. We have learned to distrust politicians in a big way, which is not good for democracy. This is what the last 10 years have done. those who always swore when their turn for power came, they would destroy the status quo, have done their stuff. I happened to search the net the other day for a Patriotic Poetry site. That's how i found you. Lots of US, plenty of world wide. NO UK. Nothing. It has almost become forbidden. They've buried Elgar's work (Land of Hope and Glory etc) with him. On the other hand, everything we deplore has almost become compulsory.They think the British public will continue to roll over and go to sleep. We'll see. In any English Pub, you will find them with me, don't worry. We are still here guys.

What a navy we used to have; sons of the sea, we are. An Island nation. they are Trying to stuff us into a bottle! The genie will out.
 
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