The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe! - Page 63




 
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May 7th, 2006  
WNxRogue
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
You might have missed a little thing called Bliztkreig when the offensive forces has most of the advantages.
True, but the blitzkreig warefare has severel key weaknesses, it works well against an unprepared defense, but if the defense is dug in, like i stated, the blitzkreig is less then effective. I also hope you arent suggesting that the muslim world will try to blitzkreig us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
It doesn't matter, how much damage to the US can 100,000 jihadist (in a population of 7 million Muslims thats less then 2%), alot . How may in the WTC, 19? Only 19? They may or may not do as much damage in proportion to those 19 guys, but it will significantly divert resources. You can not say this will not have a significant impact.
It depends on what they strike, and if they are equipped, and a lot of other factors. The WTC was a civilian target, and did nothing to divert our military. To sevearly divert our resources, they would need to strike a military target, otherwise police and civilian paramilitary groups can help repair/defend civilian targets, Again, im not saying that some men from the army would not be necissary, but not enough to affect a world-wide struggle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Read the first post again. Since when will the West have a an army to equal 200,000,000.
Neither does the middle east. Those 200,000,000 men are just islamic believers, not their actual military. By the same token we can raise an army as big, if not bigger then that. At the sametime, I doubt that the muslim world can properally equip 200,000,000 men. Now im not saying that we can, but i can say that our chances of doing so are much greater, and that we will out-equip them beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
The the in-country jihadist are just a part in the puzzle that are not the main part, they will merely help out.
I understand this, but at this point its the only true advantage they have over the western world. They cant raise as many men, they cant equip them as well as we can, we are much better positioned geographically then they are, and we are fighting defensively.We have a better navy and airforce, and they are already in striking position to the middle east. The in-country jihadists are the only advantage they have that we dont have better, and it looks like even that advantage is not enough to tip the balances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
And are you going to have it organized the first day, no way. It will take at least a few weeks to have it going, in the meantime Army troops will have to do. Think about this situation in Europe at the same time an invasion is occuring.
Yes you will have it organized fast, especially when the police is concerned. To hinder us as much as your saying they would have to strike every city in the US, at the same time, in an entirely devestating way. This is completely impossible, especially with our current level of anti-terrorism alerts. Europe is about as well off as we are, except they will be facing less muslims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
You still don't understand this do you. The oustide invasion, the in-country jihadist revolt will occur all at the same time.
First off, please do not insult my intelligence, I understand what you are saying, but I also understand that to move 200 million me from the middle east to europe, through severel non-muslim countries is impossible in one day, and even it was, it would be absolutly impossible to hide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
This will create confusion, chaos, and mayhem, that will help the invaders. This will last a few weeks or maybe acuople of months giving the invaders a foothold into Europe. The in-country jihadist don't have to win merely buy time for the invaders.
Weeks and Months??? I think you overestimate their havic-creating capabilities. I also forgot to add, where are they going to be able to support a 200 million man army from? Those kind of numbers need food, water, ammunition, gas for vehicles, and many other logistic needs. The idea of middle-eastern countries fielding those kind of numbers, especially when they will be facing an embargo from every other modern nation in the world is absolutly ludacris.
May 7th, 2006  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRogue
True, but the blitzkreig warefare has severel key weaknesses, it works well against an unprepared defense, but if the defense is dug in, like i stated, the blitzkreig is less then effective. I also hope you arent suggesting that the muslim world will try to blitzkreig us.
They might. They will do whatever they see fit to their advantage. Blitzkreig tactics may be one of them

Quote:
It depends on what they strike, and if they are equipped, and a lot of other factors. The WTC was a civilian target, and did nothing to divert our military. To sevearly divert our resources, they would need to strike a military target, otherwise police and civilian paramilitary groups can help repair civilian targets, Again, im not saying that some men from the army would not be necissary, but not enough to affect a world-wide struggle.
What matters is the confusion this will create which will divert resources and buy us time.


Quote:
Neither does the middle east. Those 200,000,000 men are just islamic believers, not their actual military. By the same token we can raise an army as big, if not bigger then that. At the sametime, I doubt that the muslim world can properally equip 200,000,000 men. Now im not saying that we can, but i can say that our chances of doing so are much greater, and that we will out-equip them beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Let me say this again. PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST!!!!!!!!!

Don't make me laugh we cannot raise an army the size of 200 million without it overloading our infrastructure. Right now the US military numbers only 1 million or so. We would have trouble raising it to 10 million. And if we did raise 10 million it will take some time it will take time maybe about year or more. You don't have any idea what you are talking about.

A United Muslim Empire can raise and army of 200 million and they can afford to be able to equip them. Again I say... PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST!!!!!!!


Quote:
I understand this, but at this point its the only true advantage they have over the western world. They cant raise as many men, they cant equip them as well as we can, we are much better positioned geographically then they are, and we are fighting defensively.We have a better navy and airforce, and they are already in striking position to the middle east. The in-country jihadists are the only advantage they have that we dont have better, and it looks like even that advantage is not enough to tip the balances.
You don't understand the geo-politics of what is happening iun Europe in 15 to 20 years this shifting will give the Middle East and advantge. Yopu are looking at this concept of fighting one coutry at a time this will not b only one coutnry but an entire region bent of Jihad.

Quote:
Yes you will have it organized fast, especially when the police is concerned. To hinder us as much as your saying they would have to strike every city in the US, at the same time, in an entirely devestating way. This is completely impossible, especially with our current level of anti-terrorism alerts. Europe is about as well off as we are, except they will be facing less muslims.
Police? You said talking para-military, civilian militias. You don't even know what you are talking about.

The police will be overwhelmed. Not to mention they have to direct and help with the civilian emergencies which would be now occuring.


Quote:
First off, please do not insult my intelligence, I understand what you are saying, but I also understand that to move 200 million me from the middle east to europe, through severel non-muslim countries is impossible in one day, and even it was, it would be absolutly impossible to hide.
Read the first post and some of thios thread for a matter of fact.
All this stuff you are aking has been discused here before I'm tired of answering them over and over. No one will hide any armies.



Quote:
Weeks and Months??? I think you overestimate their havic-creating capabilities. I also forgot to add, where are they going to be able to support a 200 million man army from? Those kind of numbers need food, water, ammunition, gas for vehicles, and many other logistic needs. The idea of middle-eastern countries fielding those kind of numbers, especially when they will be facing an embargo from every other modern nation in the world is absolutly ludacris.
Yes the confusion will last weeks maybe months. See thread on this and also EMP in this thread. Have you even heard of EMP btw?

You have several Army Groups of around 20 million men each, you take one million to two million me to run the supplies. So each aArmy Group will have one to two million men running supplies.

With this many men you will NOT attack from one point but you will open up a multi-front war overwhelming the defendes from all angles (read the thread, I'm getting tired of explaining the same thing over and over).
May 7th, 2006  
WNxRogue
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
They might. They will do whatever they see fit to their advantage. Blitzkreig tactics may be one of them
Blitzkreig tactics require not only a powerful airforce, but also a well developed armor core, both of which not only are they sorely lacking, but we have plenty of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Don't make me laugh we cannot raise an army the size of 200 million without it overloading our infrastructure. Right now the US military numbers only 1 million or so. You don't have any idea what you are talking about.
Wait, im sorry let me see if i can get this strait. The US and Europe don't have the infastructure to raise an army of 200 million, but the middle east does? Don't make me laugh. And since, as you so clearly pointed out, we are talking about regions, im saying that the US and Europe have a better capacity to field this many men then the middle east does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
They can raise and army of 200 million and they can afford to be able to equip them. Again I say... PLEASE READ THE FIRST POST!!!!!!!
I dont doubt that they could raise an army that big. What I do doubt is that they could properly equip and supply an army that big. They can barely afford to take care of things in their own country, let alone in their country, and in a army of that size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
You don't understand the geo-politics of what is happening iun Europe in 15 to 20 years this shifting will give the Middle East and advantge. Yopu are looking at this concept of fighting one coutry at a time this will not b only one coutnry but an entire region bent of Jihad.
Again with the "you dont understand."

I do see the geo-politics of it. I also see an expanding EU and more Unity in countries NOT in the EU. I do understand the concept of regional unity, but I also see that the same thing will happen in europe. If by that time most of europe will not be in the EU, the countries will see they are all facing extermination and/or oppression and will unite to combat the threat that they see before them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Police? You said talking para-military, civilian militias. You don't even know what you are talking about.

The police will be overwhelmed. Not to mention they have to direct and help with the civilian emergencies which would be now occuring.
On the contrary, I did not say they had to be only para-military civilian groups, so since police are the civilian peace keepers, it only makes sense they would be called in to help protect civilian targets. They will not be all that overwhelmed past the first 1/2 a day maybe. In the US as well as many other countries, the police can move around the country to where they are needed. Its sort of like policemen from all over the country going to the Katrina-effected zone to help out. That is why I said they would need to strike a lot of cities at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
No one will hide any armies.
Then the middle east will be facing preemtive strikes, even possibly with nuclear weapons. They will also be facing a dug in defence, and will probably help prepare the police and other groups for possible terrorist attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Yes the confusion will last weeks maybe months. See thread on this and also EMP in this thread. Have you even heard of EMP btw?

You have several Army Groups of around 20 million men each, you take one million to two million me to run the supplies. So each aArmy Group will have one to two million men running supplies.

With this many men you will NOT attack from one point but you will open up a multi-front war overwhelming the defendes from all angles (read the thread, I'm getting tired of explaining the same thing over and over).
Again when you have no argument you stoop to common insults. Yes I know what EMP is, and I also know that to create widespread confusion with it, your either going to need a nuclear bomb or a large pinch. The problem is, if you use a nuke, you can bet we will retaliate in kind, and pinches only last for a few seconds, they dont do lasting damage. That is a good plan with running supplies, except you will have extremely long supply lines, through enemy territory, with European/American air superiority, Even if they did have enough supplies, which they dont, they would never get more then a fraction of the supplies to the army. Attacking multiple areas (not multi-front, multi-directional) might be able to overwhelm a defense, but if they have time to prepare it might not. At the same time, the muslim army will be ill equipped, ill supplied with frightenly long supply chains, whereas the defenders will have short supply lines, in friendly terratory. They will have air and naval support, home area advantages, as well as geographical advantages, especially in eastern europe.
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May 7th, 2006  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRogue
Blitzkreig tactics require not only a powerful airforce, but also a well developed armor core, both of which not only are they sorely lacking, but we have plenty of.
You do not need an Airforce, all you need is a massive amount of moving ground vehicle supported by a massive amount of SAM defences.

Not to mention it will be a multi-front war where the West defenses will be stressed. Not to mention an EMP attack (again read thread) can make alot of our sophisticate weaponery useless, hindering our Airforce. So yes, very possible they can do a blitzkrieg style invasion.


Quote:
Wait, im sorry let me see if i can get this strait. The US and Europe don't have the infastructure to raise an army of 200 million, but the middle east does? Don't make me laugh. And since, as you so clearly pointed out, we are talking about regions, im saying that the US and Europe have a better capacity to field this many men then the middle east does.
Read the first post please. It talks about the population and enocomic output in relation to recruitng so many men, which we in the West will not be able to duplicate.


Quote:
I dont doubt that they could raise an army that big. What I do doubt is that they could properly equip and supply an army that big. They can barely afford to take care of things in their own country, let alone in their country, and in a army of that size.
Explained in the first post with the oil money, so read.


Quote:
I do see the geo-politics of it. I also see an expanding EU and more Unity in countries NOT in the EU. I do understand the concept of regional unity, but I also see that the same thing will happen in europe. If by that time most of europe will not be in the EU, the countries will see they are all facing extermination and/or oppression and will unite to combat the threat that they see before them.
What you fail to see is a growing Muslims popution in Europe itself which is eventualy projected to take over with time. In 20 years however they may not take over but they will have enough political clout which left wing elements in Europe are letting happen) to influence things in favor of an emegred Islamic Empire should this occur.
The Muslims eventualy believe (as per their prophecies) that they will conquer Europe. So they will do their best politically to make it easy to either help build a massive military for the Islamic Empire and also make it so that it appears a minimized or non-threat at first, and many other things to help this along.

And YES, the countries will see they are facing extermination and will combat it, BUT THE WAR IS ALREADY WELL UNDERWAY, as I have stated in this thread more times than I care to remember.

This is why I am saying you don't see the geo-politics of it.
May 7th, 2006  
WNxRogue
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
You do not need an Airforce, all you need is a massive amount of moving ground vehicle supported by a massive amount of SAM defences.
This is completely incorrect, by its very deffinition, and airforce is necisarry for a successful blitzkreig. If you dont believe me look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkreig

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Not to mention it will be a multi-front war where the West defenses will be stressed. Not to mention an EMP attack (again read thread) can make alot of our sophisticate weaponery useless, hindering our Airforce. So yes, very possible they can do a blitzkrieg style invasion.
Again geography prevents the type of war you are talking about from striking successfully, there are only so many areas the muslim army can come from. See my other post for EMP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Explained in the first post with the oil money, so read.
I wont go into the possibility of an alternative fuel source by the time this would happen, so I will stick to the embargo argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
What you fail to see is a growing Muslims popution in Europe itself which is eventualy projected to take over with time. In 20 years however they may not take over but they will have enough political clout which left wing elements in Europe are letting happen) to influence things in favor of an emegred Islamic Empire should this occur.
The Muslims eventualy believe (as per their prophecies) that they will conquer Europe. So they will do their best politically to make it easy to either help build a massive military for the Islamic Empire and also make it so that it appears a minimized or non-threat at first, and many other things to help this along.

And YES, the countries will see they are facing extermination and will combat it, BUT THE WAR IS ALREADY WELL UNDERWAY, as I have stated in this thread more times than I care to remember.

This is why I am saying you don't see the geo-politics of it.
Even if muslim elements are gaining power in europe, the fact remains that if they are even thought to be making decisions against their countries they will be booted out so fast they wont be able to change a thing.
May 7th, 2006  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNxRogue
This is completely incorrect, by its very deffinition, and airforce is necisarry for a successful blitzkreig. If you dont believe me look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkreig
They need not approximate blitzkrieg exactly only something similar, enough so they can have large enough masses of ground vehicles moving and they will not have nor will they need air power.

The EMP will help.



Quote:
Again geography prevents the type of war you are talking about from striking successfully, there are only so many areas the muslim army can come from. See my other post for EMP.
No. Geography will help them, they will use some of the same routes when they invaded Europe centuries ago (they are already familiar with the inavion route). They will in invade through the balkans and will open a multi-front war through the Med. The fact that all of North Africa is Muslim is already in their favor.

About the EMP I countered that post a few post back, adressed to someone else, even before you posted your post. You see, none of what you are saying is new here.

Here what I said:

"Anyways, in about 15 to 20 years an Islamic empire will have the bomb in decent quantities, they have it now (Pakistan). Even if we could destroy the whole Islamic world, they may still have a slim chance at nuking a handful of our major cities. A choice the West will not allow if they have a chance at beating them conventionaly.

So would you trade nuking the whole Muslim world for say, two of your cities, say Berlin and Hamburg, when you still have a chance at beating them conventionaly? Maybe you would if you have the mentality of Saddam Hussien, or even Hilter."


What are you going to trade LA and or New York just so you can nuke all of Islam when we have a chance to beat them conventionaly? Maybe if you are insane, but most people aren't. The West won't retaliate with nukes. We will only consider using this if they face absolute defeat.

The EMP effect still stands, and that alone and counters alot of what you have said.


Quote:
I wont go into the possibility of an alternative fuel source by the time this would happen, so I will stick to the embargo argument.
The US may and probably will have an alternitive fuel by this time. But Europe and alot of the world including China will be still buying oil making them still rake in money at this point in time. Your view that you are seeing this through is limited. So they will have the money to buy all the weapons they want.



Quote:
Even if muslim elements are gaining power in europe, the fact remains that if they are even thought to be making decisions against their countries they will be booted out so fast they wont be able to change a thing.
Hahaha. You truly don't know what is going on, do you? Not even close, the Europeans are too politically correct to do anything like that. Especailly if no fighting has started yet. Beside Europe will not even see the Muslim Empire as a threat until its too late. Even then they will do, like in WW2, Europes politicians will try to appease, like they had done with Hilter.

Right now the Muslim population is growing exponentialy larger in Europe, and the Europeans themsleves and the ones who encouraged and allowed it. Nothing is being done to stop this.

What I stated is very possible, and is on track, as far as happening.

That why I stated you don't know the geo-politics of this (which you have shown). The Muslim Empire will not be the only ones responsible for an invation of Europe, but the Eurpeans themselve will lend a unwittingly lend (and are lending) a hand.

The collapse of great civilization are not always only from without, but it starts from within.
May 8th, 2006  
WNxRogue
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
No. Geography will help them, they will use some of the same routes when they invaded Europe centuries ago (they are already familiar with the inavion route). They will in invade through the balkans and will open a multi-front war through the Med. The fact that all of North Africa is Muslim is already in their favor.
Wrong. The mountanous terrain of the balkans will hinder the attack force, forcing them into canyons and passes, allowing the defending force to set up ambushes, and strong defensive areas where the attackers will not be able to win. As for the medeterranian, with American and European dominance of not only the sea, but also the air, any attacking force will fail to even get to europe. It will be like the Australians trying to attack America.....without a navy (I know Australia has a navy, this is for argument purposes only). Absolutly impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
About the EMP I countered that post a few post back, adressed to someone else, even before you posted your post. You see, none of what you are saying is new here.

Here what I said:

"Anyways, in about 15 to 20 years an Islamic empire will have the bomb in decent quantities, they have it now (Pakistan). Even if we could destroy the whole Islamic world, they may still have a slim chance at nuking a handful of our major cities. A choice the West will not allow if they have a chance at beating them conventionaly.

So would you trade nuking the whole Muslim world for say, two of your cities, say Berlin and Hamburg, when you still have a chance at beating them conventionaly? Maybe you would if you have the mentality of Saddam Hussien, or even Hilter."


What are you going to trade LA and or New York just so you can nuke all of Islam when we have a chance to beat them conventionaly? Maybe if you are insane, but most people aren't. The West won't retaliate with nukes. We will only consider using this if they face absolute defeat.

The EMP effect still stands, and that alone and counters alot of what you have said.
Not really. I think that not only by that time we will have a functioning nuclear defense program (since even now ours has a 50% knockout ratio). And if you dont think that America will strike back with nukes, then you truly do no understand America. We invaded 2 countries becuase terrorists blew up 2 buildings. If you dont think we will use a nuclear solution if they nuke our soldiers or cities, then you are a fool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
They need not approximate blitzkrieg exactly only something similar, enough so they can have large enough masses of ground vehicles moving and they will not have nor will they need air power.

The EMP will help.
Again the terrain is not built for good vehicle combat, the mountanous region allows infantry armed with anti-vehicle weapons to ambush and destroy vehicles as they pass through the mountains. EMP was covered in number one, enough said. Just as an after thought, were will all these vehicles come from? If you going to say oil money, please read the post under this first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
The US may and probably will have an alternitive fuel by this time. But Europe and alot of the world including China will be still buying oil making them still rake in money at this point in time. Your view that you are seeing this through is limited. So they will have the money to buy all the weapons they want.
If we have an alternative fuel source, then the entire world will. China or europe could easily get 1 molecule of the fuel source and mass produce it themselves. The thing with the world today is that if one country gets a somewhat simplistic product that can save huge amounts on money, you can bet that every other modern world will have it in less then 1 year. So, since alternate fuels that are cost efficient are only 5 years away (or so scientists say) we can expect the rest of the world to have it within 6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Hahaha. You truly don't know what is going on, do you? Not even close, the Europeans are too politically correct to do anything like that. Especailly if no fighting has started yet. Beside Europe will not even see the Muslim Empire as a threat until its too late. Even then they will do, like in WW2, Europes politicians will try to appease, like they had done with Hilter.

Right now the Muslim population is growing exponentialy larger in Europe, and the Europeans themsleves and the ones who encouraged and allowed it. Nothing is being done to stop this.

What I stated is very possible, and is on track, as far as happening.

That why I stated you don't know the geo-politics of this (which you have shown). The Muslim Empire will not be the only ones responsible for an invation of Europe, but the Eurpeans themselve will lend a unwittingly lend (and are lending) a hand.

The collapse of great civilization are not always only from without, but it starts from within.
Id like to think that Europeans have learned that munich agreements are stupid against expansionistic countries, and if you think that the US will stand by while this happens, then you are wrong. The fact is, the ret of the world is dependent on the US and Europe, so they will be able to twist the arms of........the russians........or the chinese....or the indians. Anyone of these countries (except Russia) has the military might to harass the muslim rear and cause a pull back of some limited amount of muslim forces.....say.....50 million give or take. The europeans may have been complacent during WWII, but when they see the possibility of 200 million soldiers invading them, trust me it will be like the Japanese in America during WWII.
May 8th, 2006  
Ollie Garchy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius

(1) "The question asked if Europe had all these countermeasures you said; "yes sir". Thats complete BS that you made up."

(2) "As far as the Iraq wars. The Iraqi troops were not motivated, this was no Jihad, they were not inavding, the were static in place, they only outnumbered us two to one. Lastly, they were no sabotures sabotaging civilian structures, and or troop supply transport here in the West, if there was the wars would have been totaly different as we know it, just this one factor alone would have made this war totaly different."

(3) "As far as the Soviets, go maybe they were smart enough to avoid world war. Because if they used EMP, we would too and collapse their infrastucture which at that time was similar to ours. The fact they didn't attack doesn't matter, who knows what their real reason are. What matrters EMP is in place. Please read the danger of what top officials say it can do. Shall I quote them again. The danger is here, thats what counts."

(4) "Beside this whole invasion isn't all about EMP, even without EMP an organized Islamic Empire still has a chance at inading Europe. EMP is just one of many potent resources they can call to on."

(5) "Haha. The poblem with Europe ia they aren't waiting for these immigrant to assimilate. They are helping and catering to them as is. So why should they conform. They have more power staying in their on enclaves and building mini-societies of a country-within-a-country."

(6) "Anyways, in about 15 to 20 years an Islamic empire will have the bomb in decent quantities, they have it now (Pakistan). Even if we could destroy the whole Islamic world, they may still have a slim chance at nuking a handful of our major cities. A choice the West will not allow if they have a chance at beating them conventionaly."

(7) "So would you trade nuking the whole Muslim world for say, two of your cities, say Berlin and Hambur, when you still have a chance at beating them conventionaly? Maybe you would if you have the mentality of Saddam Hussien, or even Hilter."
Greetings,

(1) European armies, because of indigenous technological developments and because of NATO technology transfers and standardization policies, have significant EMP countermeasures. Before stating that I am merely spouting BS, a cheap tactic, think about your own bias. You obviously think very poorly of Europe. Did you have a Pentecostal or a fundamentalist Christian upbringing? Why the belief (or hope) that Europe is doomed? See below for "evidence" of European EMP countermeasures.

(2) You should spend some time reading the standard American military websites, ie. sifting through basic writings concerning strategic and operational thinking. You would quickly realize that American (and European) military experts know quite a bit concerning morale and virtually every aspect of war. This includes securing the homefront. In any case, waging war is far more than just throwing a million armed "freaks" at the enemy. That type of primitive philosophy invariably ends in disaster. Europe also has millions of armed "freaks". The Bundeswehr alone can theoretically mobilize around half a million men in the shortterm.

(3) The EMP does endanger the CIVILIAN economic system. There is no doubt about that. However, soldiers and not bankers would be the ones tasked with throwing back an invasion. And, Europeans would have time to quell a domestic uprising and respond to an invasion. The Muslims would, by virtue of geographical factors, be forced to move through the periphery and into the core European states (Russia, Germany, France and England). Even without opposition, a tank would take several days to reach Germany. What about England? What about France? The Bundeswehr would, even with a major uprising, crush a revolt and prepare for the invasion.

(4) The "Muslims" can always invade Europe...right now if they want. Their chances of victory, with or without an EMP, are zero. Even if you discount European conventional strength, you have to realize that the western Europeans have a large arsenal of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. This is a complex issue. WMD would be a serious challenge for the Muslim invasion owing to their lack of countermeasures (like chemical suits, etc.)

(5) The immigrants represent a major problem in Germany (and France) at the moment. The problem relates somewhat to structural racism and the inability of the immigrants to find employment. The groups that do not assimilate easily, mostly islamic Africans, are thereby cut off from European society and the poor fellows have no access to a good education or good future. They are marginalized. On the fringes. They have no money, no power, no hope. Many indigenous Europeans, especially in France, seem to like things this way. Personally, the poor fellows have my pity. I do not fear the poor and huddled masses.

(6) In 15 to 20 years, considering the pace of military technological developments in the west, we will have an army of robotic warriors who are immune to EMP and all WMD other than nukes. We will also still have thermonuclear warheads to offset any suicidal nuclear challenge. The industrial outlays of the west are just plain massive and no amount of development by the Muslim world will even come close to closing the gap. They just don't have the resources, money, or experience. Remember, globalization is EXPLOITING the Third World, not developing it.

(7) Even if islamic terrorists detonate nuclear weapons in Berlin or Hamburg, or even if they try a chemical or biological attack, I would join the Bush group and support the systematic destruction of the Middle East. I am sure, given enough European dead, that most Europeans would throw morality out the window. The cry for terrible retribution would not have anything to do with Hitler or Saddam. It would be understandable and reasonable...and it would write a new chapter in death.

EUROPEAN EMP COUNTERMEASURES: (Basic Conclusions from Sources)

(1) EMP is a less-than-effective weapon: "Military electronics underwent a hardening process with the development of chips and other components resistant to EMP. Today even military jets and missiles are constructed to withstand the effect".

(2) Europeans are devising new strategies and methods

(3) Germany does not export EMP countermeasures as a non-proliferation strategy

(4) An Example - German Leopard is EMP "hardened": "Tank is fully NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) protected, and all equipment is hardened against EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse)".


http://www.bmwi.de/Redaktion/Inhalte...n,rwb=true.pdf

http://www.cmi.fi/files/ESSTRT_final_report.pdf

http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...rticle_id=5432

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Ri...ard_III_HT.htm
May 9th, 2006  
zander_0633
 
 
Very good analysis!
May 9th, 2006  
Damien435
 
 
OG, what about the power grids in Europe? The military can only sustain itself for so long before their generators will start to run out of fuel, before their ships will sit dead in the water? How long can the military's current stores of munitions last before they will need to be resupplied?