Next step would be to annalize how much the muslim world depends on the western cultures. I would think their economy would come to a tragic hault pretty darn fast. This empire would have to join hands, rise up against all things western influenced, and make a decisive victory against the west all in a pretty short amount of time. By the time they unite, become majority Islamic facist against the west, arm themselves with nuclear weapons and somewhat technology equivalent weaponry for these supposed 200 million men. I'd think someone would step in.

Oh wait, someone has.

They go by the names of "Operation Enduring Freedom" and "Operation Iraqi Freedom". I think sept 11 awoke the western world, namely the US (duh) about Islamic fascism and their weapon of terrorism. The taliban are pretty much gone, removed the baathist regime from power in Iraq, and are currently fighting a variety of muslim extremist. Mainly sunni and shi'ite. But I digress... the point is, in a sense, this war has aleady begun. I think what the US and allied forces are doing right now are preventing this "riseing empire" theory.

However, I will admit this has the possibility of occuring if:

1- The US and Iraqi government fail to take control of the situation, and future conflicts end in long stalemates like the situation in Najaf.

2- The ignorant anti-war masses continue their ideals and coverting, turning the majority of public opinion.

3- The Iranian nuclear development goes unchecked by the UN.

4- Europe continues their ambivalence towards military actions in the middle-east.

5- As a direct consequence of #2 and #4, the US and allies cease major military presence from the middle-east.

All of this looks very plausible, but will it happen? I like to think no. I like to think the US can recognize how dire the situation is in the middle-east, and will stick to it- same goes with her most trusted allies.

I would like to think the majority of muslims are understanding and wouldn't so easily convert to "Islamic extremism" But then, why is it we're tip-toeing around Najaf and Fallujha? So we won't hurt their feelings? I think not.

I actually think that by invading Iraq we may have bought ourselves 5 maybe 10 years of peace. So I think it was a good thing.

Yes I think Sept 11 woke us up, but it seems were slowly falling back to sleep again.

I think you made some good and very pluasible points, which possibly may lead to all of this.
However for all our Western reasonings there is still one factor we don't get or seem to understand, I'll get to that later.

I would like to think the majority of muslims are understanding and wouldn't so easily convert to "Islamic extremism"

You're absolutely right! THEY WON'T.

Not right now at least... no chance! A lot of them are sympathetic to those extremist but still very few will ever actually act. ( Does this answer coming from me surprise you? )

Like I said there is one factor in this whole equation we Westerners really don't know or don't seem to get. I've been trying to explain this all along.

That factor is the Mahdi factor.

Every since childhood every Muslim is taught about the coming of the Mahdi. That he will be the the will of Allah himself and everything he does and says is basicly equivalent to the will of Allah himself. To put simply he has status of being a god. All their lives they not only hear this but anticipate with eagerness.

I don't know what we have here in Western society that compares to to this that I can make an analogy out of. The closest thing I can think of is that alot of people would be willing to sacrifice their lives for their country, alot of these people are the average joe, probably very few of them are really radical, but still they are willing to do it. Picture fighting for the your country, except this time your country is personified in one man. This is the closest i can come up with to try to explain this although, its not even close, it is so much more.

Now picture yourself as a Muslim, the Mahdi has showed up, here is the pesonification of your highest and greastest ideals, the one you've heard of all your life, would you be able to turn him down. We really don't have a clue what this means so we can sit here and say, "yeah I can turn him down." But realisticaly, out of a 1000 Muslims how many would say no?

For all the Bin Ladens and Al Sadrs that show up it will never cause a massive movement to arms by the Muslim world. These peoples actions are not the divine will of Allah personified, the Muslim know that. The Mahdi however is a different story. Our invasion of Iraq has not stopped the Mahdi legend.

The scariest thing about this is that it will only take one person---one man---to step up at the right moment and alter the course of history. There is a whole culture already set up numbering 1.5 billion waiting for him to do just that.

If every islamic country in the world united they would be a flea compared to the west. They cant even defeat Israel, their worst enemy. Country and training will defeat religion every time.

8) I think the Muslim world is too divided to unite against Europe... but what is most dangerous about them are their terrorist groups.

got to be alert at all times... GOT TO HUNT THEM ALL DOWN!

Yes they are divided, totaly true, I don't dispute this.

The thing is they believe as part of their prophecies that a great leader will someday appear to unite them all and conquer the world.

Originally Posted by Big_Z

They cant even defeat Israel, their worst enemy. Country and training will defeat religion every time.

Their defeats were partialy because they were using old Russian tactics against Western military doctrine designed to defeat that. That and who knows, maybe Allah isn't really on their side.

You have to remeber the Muslim Caliphate ( Ottoman Empire ) was historicaly the most powerful empire at that time, even though Europe was technologicaly superior. If this empire were to be revived I wouldn't take them lightly.

I prefer to keep my biblical interpretations open on this one. You could just as easily have such an army come out of Asia. If all you're looking for is a Muslim Empire to arise, you just might miss what was REALLY being talked about.

I'm not solely basing this on Biblical interpretion, but it does have a factor.

But as far as Biblical interpretion is concerened, the Bible clearly states in Daniel 8 that in the last days a terrible leader who will cause great destruction will arise out of the area of the former empire of Alexander the Great, coincidentaly this area occupies most of the Muslim world.

Now the Muslims aslo have a prophecy of coming leader who will conquer the world for Islam.

The Funny thing is if you match Christian prophecy with Muslim Prophecy, they are basicly flip sides of a coin. The bad guys on one side are the good guys on the other and vice-versa. To me that is kind of creepy. Is it coincidence?!?

The Funny thing is if you match Christian prophecy with Muslim Prophecy, they are basicly flip sides of a coin. The bad guys on one side are the good guys on the other and vice-versa. To me that is kind of creepy. Is it coincidence?!?

Not If you belive Allah Is the Christian God as well. But as far as Im concerned, Islam just arose out of the need to make a "Arab religion" and many of it's ideas are copied from Christian writings.

Me personally, no, but that's just my opinion.

Alot of Ideas were copied, but as far as the prophecies go they may be copied, but we don't know that for sure, ...what if they weren't.

Its hard for me to imagine taking the ultimate personification of Satan from one religion, to form the ultimate hero of your own religion. Unless those setting up Islam purosely made it to be anti-Christian, then I don't see it. But then I again I could be wrong.

Me personally, no, but that's just my opinion.


I agree, islam Is a natural phenominon from my view, It was created because their was no uniting force In the Arab world.