The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe! - Page 38




 
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May 13th, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missileer
There are some vacuum tubes left but they never advanced to the type of circuitry needed in computerized equipment. I suspect that enough vacuum tubes to build a four function calculator would not fit in a large room.
The vacuum tubes found in Soviet equipment (such as found in the MIG that defected) aren't meant to do calculations, just simple basic operations to keep gear work after an EMP strike.

I'll try to post more on EMP effects later, if chance to (since I've been studying up on it). The reports are conflicting though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
If this invasion ever comes through it will be an extermination war....
It may well come down to that. Either that or "convert or die!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc.S
No one thought that Adolf Hitler would overrun France and the rest of Europe as he did in 1940 eather.
That seem to be the case here too. the fact that some people don't believe or even take this seriously adds to the chances of this actually happening. If they did steps can be taken even now to prevent or minimize the damage, but I don't think thats going to happen at the present time.

Right now you still have time Doc (you and 13th_Rendeck), around 10 to 20 years IMO.
When you start to hear rumors and news about some Muslim holyman starting to unite the different countries over there, then it will be time to worry.

Quote:
This would be a mixed WW2 scenario and crusade, this time even worse,...
Yes, just like you said.
May 13th, 2005  
Mohmar Deathstrike
 
 
IRT Doc S.: Iran doesn't have any Tupolew 22 bombers. A personal question if I may: Do you hate muslims, or foreigners? Because you make it seem as if the entire muslim population of Europe would act as some kind of "5th column" in this already unlikely conflict.



One Muslim holy man is not going to unify the muslim world and you know it. Furhermore, I already pointed out the second major flaw in your scenario: The fact that a massive troop buildup would go unnoticed.

Also...why would this Empire want to conquer Europe? There is only one power with the ability to conquer Europe in the forseeable future: the United States.
May 13th, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat Sagdiyev
Terrorist suspects and suspected al Qaeda members are often arrested throughout Europe. Even if all the surviving members did stage some simultaneous attacks, they would not be able to seriously harm European economy or military installations. Sure, they could kill a few thousand people, but in a war, this is not a table-turning event.
The attack will not only come from just the terrorist cells themselves, it will come from the general Muslim populace as a whole.

Just say there are 5 million Muslims in a country, lets be consevative and say only 10% answer the call to final jihad (I think more will), 10% will still equal to 500,000 fanatics wreaking havoc. If each one were to kill one European that would be 500,000 dead Europeans. Let's say they are not that lucky and only 1 in 5 kills a European that still would equal to 100,000 dead Europeans. Not to mention the chaos and confusion it will cause, drawing resources from the military that will be needed at the front.

Quote:
Are you assuming European intelligence services, AWACs and whatnot will not notice a huge massing of troops outside Europe's borders until the launch of the EMP ordnance? Also, are you going to be more specific about borders? Do you mean the Bosporus? The straight of Gibralter? The entire North-African coast? Byelorussia, Russia, the Ukraine and Balkans???
I wasn't assuming anything, the EU will know they are massing at the border.

They will mass at the Turkish border. With their myriad of cheap naval vessles on standby to take the Med simultaineously, to try and open up a second and third front (Spain and Italy). If anything else simply to draw resources away form the main attack.

Even in that seemingly small space at the Turrkish border about a 100 miles wide, they could mass several army groups. They could lauch some 400 to 1000 divisions against the West possibly only around 40-60 divisions at this time before full mobilization can take place. The EMP will futher delay mobilization by weeks if not months. This will be the time then need to out attrition these forces for an eventual break through.

The EMP in combination with in-country jihadist will buy them time to do what they need to do.

Another side-effect of the nuclear EMP blast, will be to supercharge the ionosphere, wrecking most if not all radio transmissions for days if not weeks

This will actually hamper NATO command and control to coordinate a defense. The enemy on the other hand can go by pre-set battleplans until the airwaves clear up. With the number of men they have, they can afford for not having all those plans work out, but no doubt some will.

Quote:
You said it yourself: Switching equipment off could spare it from an EMP. If said missile is detected by European air surveillance, and everybody has been warned of the possibility of such an attack, they could quickly broadcast warnings on all frequencies causing everybody who listens to shut down their electronic equipment.
Your assuming that there is EMP defense plan in place, right now there isn't one.

I could see it happening within the military, but as far as the civilian sector goes it would be extremely difficult to near impossible. You are talking about shutting down every single power grid across Europe, thats just for starters, that doesn't include railway, vehicles, and airliners.

If they were to put an EMP defense plan in place they would have to take this threat very very seriously, considering what thay have to do.

Most likely they won't. My biggest proof of this right now, is actually YOU. You--yourself aren't even taking this seriously enough, how do you expect the whole rest of liberal minded Europe will take this threat. They won't. Chances are there won't be an EMP defense plan, not for the civilian sector.

Quote:
I mentioned American and European equipment among middle eastern armed forces in response to your claim that most of their forces will be immune since they use Soviet equipment that is immune to EMP. Nothing to do with money-back policies.
No offense, but I was being sarcastic.

Simply stated the less electronically dependent the equipement, the more chaces to survive an EMP attack.

I actually mention a while back in one of the post that alot of their gear may come from the West, however the vast majority will still be Russian/Soviet stuff.

But considering the amount of men they have, even if only a small precentage of their gear is from the West, that could very well still mean they have as much Western main battle tanks as the EU itself, that alone is a threat.

Basicly what I see for the overall picture ---everything, or just about everything will be going against the EU (both politically and militarily) to conduct a proper defense to stop this at the onset. Maybe later they can mount a proper defense, but not before full mobilization has occured.
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May 13th, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat Sagdiyev
One Muslim holy man is not going to unify the muslim world and you know it. Furhermore, I already pointed out the second major flaw in your scenario: The fact that a massive troop buildup would go unnoticed.
Have you even read the start of this thread?

One Muslim holy man IS going to unify the whole Muslim world.

And I never said Muslim troops would go unoticed. How are you going to hide several Army groups?


Quote:
Also...why would this Empire want to conquer Europe?
1. Mohammed said so.

2. The Mahdi, the one who unites this empire is prophesied to do so, so he must follow it or hes in trouble.

3. Food, loot, money, land, blonde European women to be sex slaves for Muslims.

4. Revenge against the secular West and the "Christian Arch enemy".

Quote:
There is only one power with the ability to conquer Europe in the forseeable future: the United States.
Lol. You're not serious are you. The US may have the ability to do so, but they have more to lose than gain by this. Hahahaha as an American I tell you this ain't going to happen.
May 13th, 2005  
Doc.S
 

Topic: Re-The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Eu


Borat Sagdiyev:
Quote:
A personal question if I may: Do you hate muslims, or foreigners? Because you make it seem as if the entire muslim population of Europe would act as some kind of "5th column" in this already unlikely conflict.


Well the left use to talk that way when they don't have anything more to add. Look the 5th column would be all ppl that they convert, that is fellow countrymen and re-built or temporary organizations such with new faith or doctrine. Do I hate foreigners? Well if I was a 5th column I don't think I would hate myself. If I hate muslims? Well that is a rather silly question. But the personal question needs an answer. I don't hate anyone, but an enemy is still an enemy and as long as they don't try to kill my wife, my little sister - my family my friends or my dog because they may refuse to subject themselves to Islam when Mr Mhadi shows up. Well then I can play along as everybody else do until Mhadi prophecy may be a reality. 8)

For the record:
I dislike Neo-Nazis
and I dislike far left ppl.
But I don't hate them.
Hate is a strong word.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.


Cheers:
Doc.S
May 13th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
Let's get something cleared up about electromagnetic pulses. Equipment does not have to be on to be destroyed. That is a movie stunt. Electromagnetism uses it's field strength to induce voltages high enough to destroy electronic devices. The only way to survive a large EMP is to have circuitry in enough magnetic shielding to attenuate or short out the magnetic field. That is going to take one hell of a Mu metal faraday cage. The pulse will be gone in a matter of milliseconds but "cat whiskers" in semiconductors are so small that they will fuse in micro or even picoseconds. They are made of the purest gold for low resistances and melt or fuse quickly.
May 13th, 2005  
Mohmar Deathstrike
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius

The attack will not only come from just the terrorist cells themselves, it will come from the general Muslim populace as a whole.

Just say there are 5 million Muslims in a country, lets be consevative and say only 10% answer the call to final jihad (I think more will), 10% will still equal to 500,000 fanatics wreaking havoc. If each one were to kill one European that would be 500,000 dead Europeans. Let's say they are not that lucky and only 1 in 5 kills a European that still would equal to 100,000 dead Europeans. Not to mention the chaos and confusion it will cause, drawing resources from the military that will be needed at the front.
Call me a liberal or whatnot, but I don't believe more than 0.01% of European muslims would risk their lives for such a looney cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius


I wasn't assuming anything, the EU will know they are massing at the border.

They will mass at the Turkish border. With their myriad of cheap naval vessles on standby to take the Med simultaineously, to try and open up a second and third front (Spain and Italy). If anything else simply to draw resources away form the main attack.

Even in that seemingly small space at the Turrkish border about a 100 miles wide, they could mass several army groups. They could lauch some 400 to 1000 divisions against the West possibly only around 40-60 divisions at this time before full mobilization can take place. The EMP will futher delay mobilization by weeks if not months. This will be the time then need to out attrition these forces for an eventual break through.

The EMP in combination with in-country jihadist will buy them time to do what they need to do.

Another side-effect of the nuclear EMP blast, will be to supercharge the ionosphere, wrecking most if not all radio transmissions for days if not weeks

This will actually hamper NATO command and control to coordinate a defense. The enemy on the other hand can go by pre-set battleplans until the airwaves clear up. With the number of men they have, they can afford for not having all those plans work out, but no doubt some will.
These points appear somewhat valid but everything is sketchy at best...then again, so is most hypothetical stuff?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gladius
Your assuming that there is EMP defense plan in place, right now there isn't one.

I could see it happening within the military, but as far as the civilian sector goes it would be extremely difficult to near impossible. You are talking about shutting down every single power grid across Europe, thats just for starters, that doesn't include railway, vehicles, and airliners.

If they were to put an EMP defense plan in place they would have to take this threat very very seriously, considering what thay have to do.

Most likely they won't. My biggest proof of this right now, is actually YOU. You--yourself aren't even taking this seriously enough, how do you expect the whole rest of liberal minded Europe will take this threat. They won't. Chances are there won't be an EMP defense plan, not for the civilian sector.
Biggest proof? Unfortunately I' m not the Supreme Commander of EU armed forces (although my avatar depicts the GLA Leader from the game Command & Comquer Generals, the GLA being one of the three world powers in the game). If I was, I would certainly attempt to implement some EMP countermeasures and I'd try to push politicians to also have civilian emergency EMP procedures. But I still don't believe an attack such as the one you describe is probable at all.

Quote:
No offense, but I was being sarcastic.
Yeh, yeah, I gathered that, just wanted 2 make sure you undestood my point

Quote:

But considering the amount of men they have, even if only a small precentage of their gear is from the West, that could very well still mean they have as much Western main battle tanks as the EU itself, that alone is a threat.
Muslim countries don't have as many of the latest generation western battletanks (e.g. M1, Leclerc, Leo2) as Europe does. Germany alone has over 2000 Leo2 (they are also employed by Sweden and the Netherlands), France has several hundred Leclerc and I think Britain has over 1000 Challenger 2 and Italy has a few hundred C1.

Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have a few hundred Abrams, Oman or Qatar or both have some Leclercs. The other western battletanks they have are obsolete, like Leo1 or M60 tanks.

Quote:
Have you even read the start of this thread?

One Muslim holy man IS going to unify the whole Muslim world.
Only if you believe in prophesies that have been written down over 1000 years ago by someone who was having an acid trip (or whatever hallucinogenic they had at the time), which I don't.


Quote:
1. Mohammed said so.

2. The Mahdi, the one who unites this empire is prophesied to do so, so he must follow it or hes in trouble.

3. Food, loot, money, land, blonde European women to be sex slaves for Muslims.

4. Revenge against the secular West and the "Christian Arch enemy".
1. Mohammed lived 1400 years ago. Whatever he said is pretty outdated.

2. Read my point above.

3. Not all muslim men regard women as totally inferior and stuff. For that they wouldn't risk a war against a power like Europe which isn't even threatening them that seriously.

4. I thought the "Christian Arch enemy" was mainly the USA.


Quote:
Lol. You're not serious are you. The US may have the ability to do so, but they have more to lose than gain by this. Hahahaha as an American I tell you this ain't going to happen.
I never said America had the intention or will to conquer Europe, only the capability. 8)

Quote:
Basicly what I see for the overall picture ---everything, or just about everything will be going against the EU (both politically and militarily) to conduct a proper defense to stop this at the onset. Maybe later they can mount a proper defense, but not before full mobilization has occured.
Okay let's make a deal. If this kind of attack doesn't happen within the next 20 years, I get to laugh at you on this message board and if it does....well let's say I won't have access to a working computer for you to laff at me. So I win either way :P
May 13th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat Sagdiyev
IRT Doc S.: Iran doesn't have any Tupolew 22 bombers. A personal question if I may: Do you hate muslims, or foreigners? Because you make it seem as if the entire muslim population of Europe would act as some kind of "5th column" in this already unlikely conflict.
We can not forget that the Islam has always been the traditional enemy of Europe. In Spain we have this recorded in our mental background. They do not attack us because they are not powerful enough, in their eyes we are infiels.
I never liked this leftist politically correct language. It seems that european people have to be always kind, let everybody get in our land, change our costumes,accept their costumes without complaining scared of being called racist. If any european goes to a muslim country MUST accept their law/rules/costumes, and if he doesn´t he might pay a very high price.
Here in Europe we live in wonderland, in a bouble. We think that WWII is goint to be the last war in europe....probably wrong.
May 13th, 2005  
Mohmar Deathstrike
 
 

Topic: Re: Re-The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Eu


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc.S

No
Okay so that's not a proper quote, but that's the message I got from you, right?

Of course there is a difference between hating people for their beliefs and hating them out of fear that they may attack you. Anyway, I do find their religion as a whole, and indeed any religion, pretty dumb, but everyone should have the right to believe what they want to believe. Flame me if you must
May 13th, 2005  
Mohmar Deathstrike
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes

We can not forget that the Islam has always been the traditional enemy of Europe. In Spain we have this recorded in our mental background. They do not attack us because they are not powerful enough, in their eyes we are infiels.
I never liked this leftist politically correct language. It seems that european people have to be always kind, let everybody get in our land, change our costumes,accept their costumes without complaining scared of being called racist. If any european goes to a muslim country MUST accept their law/rules/costumes, and if he doesn´t he might pay a very high price.
Here in Europe we live in wonderland, in a bouble. We think that WWII is goint to be the last war in europe....probably wrong.

Have you ever had any negative experience with muslim people that you feel was due to religious differences?

Even though I shouldn't draw generalizations, all interactions I had with muslim people were not fundamentally different from that of non-muslims. But that doesn't mean I should have a negative prejudice either. Do you really think most people would rather die in a war against Europe rather than try to live fairly normal lives? Don't bring up Palestine or U.S.-coalition-occupied countries cause that's a very different issue.