I think the ones we must look out for are the wars that are fought without a single shot being fired. The ones in the court rooms, parliament, etc. If it ever goes to shooting, that means things have gone too VERY badly for too long and the situation very well could be unsalvagable by that point.
Do you live in a house or an apartment? If you can, might want to consider an underground family bunker as a summer project. 8)

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Do you live in a house or an apartment? If you can, might want to consider an underground family bunker as a summer project. 8)

[j/k]The Doc.S Tora Bora underground cave complex[/j/k]

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence there man! What I was attempting to do was put forward some realities to correctly annalyze the situation. My thought process goes like this: "Here are you obstacles Mr Mahdi, what is your brillian plan of addressing them??" I just don't think that a conventional war is the most effective thing. If someone can make better sense out of the logistics than just say that it just works out somehow. All I ask is that someone make more sense of it all.

Muslim fundamentalists successfully blindsided the USA, who's security was so poor that we were almost begging for something terrible to happen. The end results? Well, it certainly hasn't benefitted the Muslim world to have destroyed the WTC and hit the Pentagon. Now, a very large military is parked in the Middle East and they wouldn't be there enmasse if 9/11 had not happened. We're going to have to see how it all plays out from here of course, but it certainly hasn't been much of a benefit to Islam as yet.

Both Christians and Muslims alike have interpreted their own prophecies to mean that they are destined to fight each other in a gigantic horrific war. It offends something inside me, even though I am a pretty religious person. My religions does not require me automatically hate every Muslim in the world. I would hope that many Muslims feel the same. I say a giant bloody war between a united Christendom and a united Islam is only inevitable if we make it inevitable

I don't remember ever talking about a single Muslim country. I was assuming that all of Islam unites and all of Europe unites to defend itself. The USA's involvement goes without saying, they'd come help out.

The main point is that Europe currently makes everything for themselves. The Muslim has to buy decent gear from other countries. I believe that detail must change before an Islamic Superstate can truly be effective. I believe that they can do it, but it will take some doing.

To be continued ...[/b]

Well I admire your level of confidence

About attacks on WTC and Pentagon; that event simply shows that "Surprise and Motivation Tactics" are horrible and can do some serious damage. It can be of different nature in different cases so no argument here!

And about US Military involvement in IRAQ. That war has it's own benefits and drawbacks. But you know what that real foes, IRAN and North Korea are very close to become new Nuclear powers and it is already late to take serious actions there (even you won't believe that).

The situation is already heating-up even after two great battles US fought and many muslims think that it is time to unite. (the sooner, the better!)

Though US military is in IRAQ, the challenges there haven't ended yet and even Osama hasn't been caught also. And tussle with Iran is not a US consideration !

As far as prophecies of Christains and Muslims are concerned, The concept of Armaggedon Battle comes from Bible (not Quran)!

And people interpret that battle in different ways and it is sad to see that muslims are taken as ultimate threat (the sign of in-security after 9/11 attacks) without understanding the core-issues of tension.

@Massive scale Invasion of Europe: The only thing that I understand about such a large scale battle is it will bring destruction on both sides with no victors, but loosers!

And about the decisions on trade-of-arms, it's very profitable and it will not stop at any cost. Don't know what you think about it but trade-relations with more countries bring more benefits to economy. And Islamic nations are very good customers !

Originally Posted by Doc.S

LINK:

http://www.dawnofthedeadmovie.net/home.htm

Cheers:
Doc.S

Hey Doc, I love that movie. Best zombie movie ever!


Let me try and get a word in concerning the discussion at hand

This is what I see as far as the future political situation of Europe some 10 years ahead.

Most of Europe at least is run by very leftwing politicians backed by a very leftwing populous.

Within 10 or 15 years (and even now) you will have a large voting block made up of Muslims. Lets say this Islamic Empire arises, do you really think the Europeans could do anything to counter this empire without it costing the politicians back home? Anything negative done against this Empire whether real or precieved will be met with resistance inside Europe itself. So you see how difficult it will be for Europe to contend with this empire militarily even if it wanted to.

Conclusion: there will be little or no European military build-up to counter this, even if they see the threat coming.

Beside the words military build-up and leftwing politics don't seem to go together do they? So the European people mostly will be okay with letting this threat be. There will a few desenting voices (or maybe just one--- Doc.S ) calling for a build-up but they will be largely ignored.

One common trait of leftwing politics is the avoidance of confict at all cost. They will seek a policy of appeasment over one of guarded watchfulness in hopes that this will avoid conflict in the future. When this Islamic Empire comes to be, Europe will seek to be in good terms (meaning appeasment) with it, not knowing the core of this empire is absolutely at odds with the Western way of life. Part of this friendlyness and appeasment will mean the providing of technolgy and arms, after all if we share weapons were not going to fight, right?

Conclusion: Alot of the arms that will be used against Europe later, will be provided by the Europeans themselves.

You don't believe me? Right now Europe is pushing hard to sell high tech weapons to China. How stupid is that. It's good for China, but for the security of the West not really.

Like I said one common liberal trait is the avoidance of conflict. Take European opposition to Iraq, the words pre-emptive strike is nowhere in their vocabulary. Yes the Europeans will fight if they are invade, and they will fight hard, but what will it take to get them to this point. Will they they be willing to take extreme action, meaning actually going to war before the enemy hits their soil, from what I've seen I highly doudt it.

Conclusion: The Europeans won't awake to this threat until they see enemy tanks rolling in their soil.
By then the war is already well underway. Will it be too late? Who knows. But any chance of keeping down causualties before this war massively erupts is lost.

This is the reason I think Europe will be invaded, because they will allow themelves to be invaded. Most of it will be of their own making rather than the enemies initiative alone. This is the reason that will make this possible.

Originally Posted by rOk

Of course I didn't mean that the EU would just rally together "out of the blue" and march southeast...something has to happen before that...

I have been saying this all along... That "something" my friend is an invasion.

Before any rallying or re-grouping can take place millions are already dead.

Hey gladius, some good points based on common ground scenarios there!

But personally many muslims take Europeans as good people due to there more friendly guestures (although Britons have to stop invading muslim countries along side USA). And the mentioned IMAM MEHDI would be a very good person. Indeed he will have very strong personality and also will be blessed with some natural traits (like prophets), according to the Islamic prophecies.

His skills will be used to end corruption in muslim nations and unite them once again in to a Islamic Super-state and turn them in to path of prosperity but that will happen through some serious dealings with traitors.

And it will be possible to do so, since IMAM MEHDI has a very strong Psychological impact in minds of most muslims.

So chill out MAN! there is no such war coming, I believe (but Britons should re-consider there policy).

NOTE: I can give you great details about his prophecies in personal !

the_13th_redneck I am with you over here, it will be to late and to many people will turn a blind eye on this untill it bites them from the behind. But dont despair - rOk have solved the problem for me and others like the old good boys as us on the forum. The Tora Bora complex - codename Titan. No house at the moment but in the summer we will probably move to a house. We will rent for starters but then, I will get on with the digging. But not at the house. That would be too obvious.

rOk Behind a screen of crunching sounds and static you can hear a voice calling out from the Lonewolf cave somewhere in the top secret Tora Bora complex. Danny boy calling broadsword... Danny boy calling broadsword... Over!... I got it... I got it all... Need transport... Over!...

Beside the words military build-up and liberal politics don't seem to go together do they? So the European people mostly will be okay with letting this threat be. There will a few desenting voices (or maybe just one--- Doc.S ) calling for a build-up but they will be largely ignored.

gladius Agree it is an unbelievable good movie for 2000 standards indeed, and I like the end too - I wont tell the end - I`ll never teeell - but there are apperently two different endings, and I have seen the good one, the directors cut I believe. And you are right once again. One voice and one brain amongst this confused ppl. It will probably stay that way if not something extremly peculiar accures. Maybe a UFO landing on the main square with a big screen TV that shows the future with a really good soround system as small green man straps the spectators in chairs at the square in old faschion Clockwork Orange 1971 movie style.

Ps: TBA_PAKI if you can? If you have time? please send me a copy of that secret plan you mentioned. If I say please cant you give me a translated copy of it?

Cheers:
Doc.S

There's only one big problem with a Torra Bora complex in Sweden. SNOW MELT!
Mind you, did you know that a lot of Afghan "tunnels" were really irrigation systems built underground over centuries?

TBA_PAKI, you see, that's the problem. A country can't be held hostage by an ethnic group at home on its policies throughout the world and at home. That's the problem. Basically you have millions of people over "here" with their hearts and loyalties still clearly "over there." THAT is the issue. The fact that Islam isn't a pacifist religion like Buddhism adds to it. A lot of people try to explain that it's a religion of peace but after 7 years of living in Malaysia/Indonesia, that's certainly not the impression I got! I've had plenty of Muslim friends growing up, but no point pretending to be pacifists if you ain't it.
When one emigrates and attains a new citizenship, he's agreeing to put his new country above and ahead of all others, including the country of his origin. It's not something to be taken lightly.
Sure you could disagree with things, but you cannot simply disagree with it on the grounds that its your old home.

You see, NOW the conversation is turning (again) towards the idea of what I think has a very very good chance of success. Europe is already very far along into the process of being overwhelmed from within by Islam. That is a MUCH more effective option than conventional war, largely because it is already in place and ready to go. All that would be needed would be a reason for the Muslims in Europe to want to destroy Christian Europe.

I still think that it is just plain silly to make the prediction that a Muslim vs Christian bloodbath is inevitable. Humanity can choose that fate, but the choice is theirs.

Originally Posted by TBA_PAKI

Hey gladius, some good points based on common ground scenarios there!

But personally many muslims take Europeans as good people due to there more friendly guestures (although Britons have to stop invading muslim countries along side USA). And the mentioned IMAM MEHDI would be a very good person. Indeed he will have very strong personality and also will be blessed with some natural traits (like prophets), according to the Islamic prophecies.

His skills will be used to end corruption in muslim nations and unite them once again in to a Islamic Super-state and turn them in to path of prosperity but that will happen through some serious dealings with traitors.

And it will be possible to do so, since IMAM MEHDI has a very strong Psychological impact in minds of most muslims.

So chill out MAN! there is no such war coming, I believe (but Britons should re-consider there policy).

NOTE: I can give you great details about his prophecies in personal !

Isn't one of the prophecies that the The Muslim armies will battle those under the Christian armies, and also that the Mahdi will conquer Jerusalem and destroy Rome.

So for him to be the true Mahdi doesn't he have to fullfill this, if doesn't then he is not the true Mahdi then is he?

So you can see where he will be stuck into starting a war whether he likes it or not.

Besides the whole world is supposed to convert into Islam after all this there are alot of people out there who are not willing to do this unless you threaten their lives even then alot of them would rather choose death.

So if he doesn't do all that the he would be a false Mahdi, not only that it also would prove those writings to be false.

I don't see so much of a blood bath happening as escalation in social conflict etc. Culture wars if you will.
There will be a few riots, a few deaths here and there but nothing in the full scale. Heck, America should know about these too. A few cities have had some race riots and they were brutal.
I believe Leeds had a race riot as well though I don't know about the death toll.