The rising of an Empire and the future invasion of Europe!

[gladius]

Maybe you havent heard what went on in France for the last couple of weeks.

Of course there are people that think that way, but we can not generalize. I study with some muslims that do not agree with this fanatics. In the french riots not only muslims were involucrated, there were many people from central Africa.

I agree there are those who don't think that way, and don't argee with the fanatics.

But there is certainly enough of them like in those riots if they wanted to start something they could.

But you have to admit even though some Africans did get into it, this mainly started as a Muslim riot. People were yelling "Allah Achbar!" as they fought the police. Besides some of thos Africans could also be Muslim.

All I can say is any good Muslim's main loyalty is to Islam law and Islam itself, this goes before any loyalty to the European countries they live in. So how they really feel abou this you may never know.

But I agree with you in something we have been discussing in this bord for a long time: Europe is gonna have trouble with his inmigrants, I do not know if it will take place as an invasion...we´ll see.

Like I've been saying it will take place in conjunction with an invasion.

If they are willing to riot because of two guys, how much more will they do it for the Mahdi. (Once you understand the phenomenon of Mahdism you will truly understand the statement I just made. Besides if they don't follow the Mahdi in their eyes they go to hell).

If this invasion doesn't happen on schedule like I said (10 to 20 years), Europe will fall to assimilation. We will no longer have Europe as we know it, it will simply be what we have now in the Middle East except in a more northern and colder climate. I really don't see anything that is being done to avert this future eventuality.

 

[MightyMacbeth]

those immigrants are certainly corrupted enough...European countries should only accept people who can benefit the country..and not like those youngsters that know nothing but rioting and fighting as tribes. Its like this..u belong to a group, then all of them will fight for u, even though they shout religious shouts, I bet that they know nothing about their true religion. Aslo, these immigrants have no civilized education or the like...they might be like those Mexican immigrants that aslo do committ most of the crimes in southern Usa..

 

[hopefulfuturemarine]

Too true. Mexican immigration is a huge problem here in the US. And it's a fact that they are not well versed in our education, language, customs, laws etc... The real big issue is that the US bends our laws around them, instead of taking care of a clear and present problem.
Hopeful

 

[Damien435]

I hate to steer this back on topic but here goes.

Yes, there are an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and I do not find the thought of a well motived army of 200,000,000 Mulims screaming "Allahu Ackbar!" and attempting to March on Jerusalem and Rome all that hard to believe. If you recall this happened many times in a series of wars we like to call the Crusades.

However, this is where it gets interesting. There are over 2 billion Christians in the world, which means that they could raise an Army of 250,000,000, roughly. So the Christians would have a numerical advantage, now keep in mind that the West has a massive technological advantage over the Muslims, access to satellites and lots of practice in the art of war over the last 100 years. All of the middle eastern states have weaponry left over from the fall of the Soviet Union, their equipment grows older and maintainence becomes ever more expensive while the West is moving on and building newer and more advanced weaponry and equipment.

The only state in the middle east to have known any military success from the end of WWII is Israel, which is a Jewish state surrounded by Muslims which comes under repeated attacks by their neighbors who seek to destroy the Jewish state. Israel uses the most advanced equipment the West has and over the last half century has gone up against the best the Russians can build while being greatly outnumbered and facing attack from three directions and Israel always wins. Just with that knowledge alone I can rest assured that in my lifetime there will be no conquest by a Muslim army united under the Caliphate and bent on world domination. And there is a nation of one billion people that could come up and clean up the house of Mohommed while their armies are off in Hungary trying to reach Rome.

 

[gladius]

I hate to steer this back on topic but here goes.

I'm glad you did this.

Yes, there are an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and I do not find the thought of a well motived army of 200,000,000 Mulims screaming "Allahu Ackbar!" and attempting to March on Jerusalem and Rome all that hard to believe. If you recall this happened many times in a series of wars we like to call the Crusades.

Very good point. I definately agree with you here. The belief to do something like this is certainly there.

However, this is where it gets interesting. There are over 2 billion Christians in the world, which means that they could raise an Army of 250,000,000, roughly. So the Christians would have a numerical advantage,

True. But unlike the Muslims the Christian do not have a mandate or set of prophecies that tells them to someday unite and wage a war to conquer the world.

Christians may have numerical superiority, but they are fragmented and do not have a unifying factor like the Mahdi prophecies the Muslims have, nor do they posses a warlike mentality.

When the war is waged it will take them sometime to come together. It took the Christians 400 years after the Muslims started to conquer Christian lands to start the crusades to get those lands back.

now keep in mind that the West has a massive technological advantage over the Muslims, access to satellites and lots of practice in the art of war over the last 100 years. All of the middle eastern states have weaponry left over from the fall of the Soviet Union, their equipment grows older and maintainence becomes ever more expensive while the West is moving on and building newer and more advanced weaponry and equipment.

If you read a few pages back (page 24) there is an article on EMP. The fact that the Muslims may be more "primitive" than the West may go in their favor when using this weapon. In fact old Soviet equipment was designed specifically to resist EMP. This is the weapon that may tip the balance and allow this invasion to actually happen.

The only state in the middle east to have known any military success from the end of WWII is Israel, which is a Jewish state surrounded by Muslims which comes under repeated attacks by their neighbors who seek to destroy the Jewish state. Israel uses the most advanced equipment the West has and over the last half century has gone up against the best the Russians can build while being greatly outnumbered and facing attack from three directions and Israel always wins.

True. They won and I hope they keep winning. Israel was was using NATO tactics designed to beat the old Soviet tactics. Plus none of those wars were fought under terms of a Jihad, which if it happens in the future may prove a harder fight.

Just with that knowledge alone I can rest assured that in my lifetime there will be no conquest by a Muslim army united under the Caliphate and bent on world domination. And there is a nation of one billion people that could come up and clean up the house of Mohommed while their armies are off in Hungary trying to reach Rome.

You need to tell that to the Muslims since they believe otherwise.

My original point in this was NOT that the Muslim will win and conquer the world.

My original point was that they will make an attempt to conquer the world.

These are two very different things.

Sure the whole world can unite to try and stop them, but agian how long willl that take. By that time the armies of Islam will be driving their tanks deep into European soil. With weapons such as EMP and the Muslims already in Europe they may have a good chance of coming very close to their goals, not that they may acheive it, but the price to stop them will be incredibly high. It may well take almost the whole world uniting to stop them completely (not to mention the time it will take for the gathering of resources and forces to launch a counter offensive). That is something that wont happen overnight.

 

[Damien435]

Force Projection.

That will be the factor that tips the balace towards the West and overwhelmigly I might add. The United States Navy has (13 or 14?) super carriers and not a single Middle Eastern state has an even semi-repectable Navy. The US and UK can with their carriers hit the Middle East from many directions and the whole time the Muslims could do nothing. While the Army of Islam is off trying to fight its way through the Balkans and into Italy they will have to do so knowing that their homes are being destroyed, their families killed, and their sacred Mecca will be forever destroyed. And the troops will be constantly harrassed by a combined European Airforce far more powerful than anything the Muslims could combat.

I personally don't think it would take long for the Christians to unite when faced with the threat of a Muslim invasion of Jerusalem and Rome. Especially with what has happened over the last couple decades and the ever increasing hatred towards Muslims because they can't police their own people. I bet some people hope this does happen because they will see it as justification to wipe out Islam once and for all.

 

[A Can of Man]

Culture wars are always more complicated than simple numbers. You can't think of this in terms of conventional warfare.

I think what often happens is someone from any poorer country comes to a richer land with high hopes of making it. Some want to stay, others want to earn enough money and go back.
But often they don't speak the language and find themselves unable and soon unwilling to adapt to the ways of their host country and become dependent on groups that represent their ethnicity (ditto Little Italy, China Town etc.). And these groups often have interests that conflict with the interests of the rest of the country. And what do large groups that are mainly made up of poor, uneducated people do? Often they turn to crime and start becoming more than just a simple neusance to the majority.
Then your never ending cycle of :cen: begins and continues.
It's not always about who's Muslim or not. It seems rather universal for most large sized minority groups who are made up of poor and uneducated people.

 

[gladius]

Force Projection.

That will be the factor that tips the balace towards the West and overwhelmigly I might add. The United States Navy has (13 or 14?) super carriers and not a single Middle Eastern state has an even semi-repectable Navy. The US and UK can with their carriers hit the Middle East from many directions and the whole time the Muslims could do nothing. While the Army of Islam is off trying to fight its way through the Balkans and into Italy they will have to do so knowing that their homes are being destroyed, their families killed, and their sacred Mecca will be forever destroyed. And the troops will be constantly harrassed by a combined European Airforce far more powerful than anything the Muslims could combat.

Agreed, but the damage is already done. How many are already dead by this time, possibly ten of millions even hundreds of millions. The blow has already been struck, the war already underway.

Simply bombing their homelands home will not make the armies turn back. The Germans didn't retreat because we bombed Germany, why should they.

I personally don't think it would take long for the Christians to unite when faced with the threat of a Muslim invasion of Jerusalem and Rome. Especially with what has happened over the last couple decades and the ever increasing hatred towards Muslims because they can't police their own people. I bet some people hope this does happen because they will see it as justification to wipe out Islam once and for all.

Yes they will unite eventually. But the threat alone won't make them unite. Its not only until the actually taking of those cities that the Christians will make a concerted effort.

If Jerusalem is taken whether Christian unite is still a guess. They will get mad but whether they will unite and want to start a war is just a guess.

If Rome is taken, then yes. But again the Muslims are already deep inside Europe. The fighting has already been going on in earnest.

Again this was my original point. You keep arguing how the West and/or the Christians will beat them, I'm not going to disagree with you here. My point is (again I stress) is that the Muslims will invade and it will be absolutely bloody. How and by whom they get defeated is another story.

When the Muslims do invade, with forces I'm projecting them to have, not just a million or so men making up 50 or 100 divisions, but more like tens of millions of men totalling between 800 to 1000 plus divisions. The forces that it will take to lanch a successful counter-offensive to this, will take at least a year if not more to assemble so they can strike back effectively.

It not just a matter of snapping your fingers and say unite. After that the forces have to be gather and assemble so they can strike back, this takes time. Before and during all this the Muslim armies have already taken a third if not half of Europe.

 

[MightyMacbeth]

then too, do look at the morale and attitude of both sides..

 

[bigcanada813]

Well, after reading through all of this, all I have to say is that if the muslim nations of the world do unite and declare this war on the western world and go charging straight for europe, no matter how things turn out, it won't be pretty for either side envolved, and I don't want to be around when it happens.

 

[TBA_PAKI]

This type of clash can only happen in near future if we already have made-up our minds for it.

Trust me!

We can't predict the future.

And by the way, if you read proper scriptures about "IMAM MEHDI". You will learn that he will be one of the best Islamic leaders and will work hard to establish peace on earth.

And not destroy the world as some believe it to be! :roll:

Cough! - Nostradamus interpreters - Cough!

 

[TBA_PAKI]

Force Projection.

That will be the factor that tips the balace towards the West and overwhelmigly I might add. The United States Navy has (13 or 14?) super carriers and not a single Middle Eastern state has an even semi-repectable Navy. The US and UK can with their carriers hit the Middle East from many directions and the whole time the Muslims could do nothing. While the Army of Islam is off trying to fight its way through the Balkans and into Italy they will have to do so knowing that their homes are being destroyed, their families killed, and their sacred Mecca will be forever destroyed. And the troops will be constantly harrassed by a combined European Airforce far more powerful than anything the Muslims could combat.

I personally don't think it would take long for the Christians to unite when faced with the threat of a Muslim invasion of Jerusalem and Rome. Especially with what has happened over the last couple decades and the ever increasing hatred towards Muslims because they can't police their own people. I bet some people hope this does happen because they will see it as justification to wipe out Islam once and for all.

Note: Pakistan is developing long range Ballistic Missiles.

Cruise Missile has already be developed. Longer range version will soon follow.

Agosta B French Sub-marines can now be manufactured in my country which can harass any submarine.

JF-17 (F-16 equavilent) is under production stage.

Your PATRIOTS still fail to shoot down large scud missiles and then how will you face a Shahab III or Ghauri II or whatever Missile. That are being manufactured in numbers.

Man! war cannot be just fought from AIR and then won. You need huge number of boots on ground. Just like what Iraq war has shown and it was already a crippled nation.

And many Middle Easter nations are arming themselves with Western weaponry. What do you think about that?

Seems like that war is no longer a viable solution now.

Your troops got bogged down in IRAQ (A crippled nation) and you expect to fight an alliance of 50+ muslim states.

You surely will progress with that thought in your mind.

And many western states are not that powerful as USA is, so they can't exhibit a viable damage just in case.

 

[Morten]

Note: Pakistan is developing long range Ballistic Missiles.

Cruise Missile has already be developed. Longer range version will soon follow.

Agosta B French Sub-marines can now be manufactured in my country which can harass any submarine.

JF-17 (F-16 equavilent) is under production stage.

Your PATRIOTS still fail to shoot down scud missiles and then how will you face a Shahab III or Ghauri II or whatever Missile. That are being manufactured in numbers.

Man! war cannot be just fought from AIR and then won. You need huge number of boots on ground. Just like what Iraq war has shown and it was already a crippled nation.

And many Middle Easter nations are arming themselves with Western weaponry. What do you think about that?

and what weaponry might that be? nothing that they got, comes close to what the US uses... and if they got that many soldiers and goes to offensive then their troops will be revealed for every aircraft to bomb... they'll be chanceless...thousands of them will die every single day! and civilian casualties on their side will be ignored, so heavy HEAVY bombing will be a possibility...

in a few years missiles and rockets can EASILY be shot down... the best bet to do so is with the new Laser being developed atm in the US of A...

didn't read ALL the pages... so i dont know if anyone has mentioned it... but missiles wont be worth much in the future... they'll explode LONG before they even get close to the target

 

[TBA_PAKI]

Note: Pakistan is developing long range Ballistic Missiles.

Cruise Missile has already be developed. Longer range version will soon follow.

Agosta B French Sub-marines can now be manufactured in my country which can harass any submarine.

JF-17 (F-16 equavilent) is under production stage.

Your PATRIOTS still fail to shoot down scud missiles and then how will you face a Shahab III or Ghauri II or whatever Missile. That are being manufactured in numbers.

Man! war cannot be just fought from AIR and then won. You need huge number of boots on ground. Just like what Iraq war has shown and it was already a crippled nation.

And many Middle Easter nations are arming themselves with Western weaponry. What do you think about that?

and what weaponry might that be? nothing that they got, comes close to what the US uses... and if they got that many soldiers and goes to offensive then their troops will be revealed for every aircraft to bomb... they'll be chanceless...thousands of them will die every single day! and civilian casualties on their side will be ignored, so heavy HEAVY bombing will be a possibility...

in a few years missiles and rockets can EASILY be shot down... the best bet to do so is with the new Laser being developed atm in the US of A...

didn't read ALL the pages... so i dont know if anyone has mentioned it... but missiles wont be worth much in the future... they'll explode LONG before they even get close to the target

You expect too much from the ABM program of US but you forgot the major technical problems US is facing with it and the amount of money being invested. Other programs are being effected by that program.

Role of Ballistic Missiles will just begin. You people haven't seen a real fight yet especially with nations like Pakistan and Iran.

Ballistic Missile is a terror weapon and SCUDs are already dead obsolete so you can't judge through them.

And Pak Military is not as foolish in battle as you consider them to be!

Talk about US success in Afghanistan - Thanks to PAK contribution. Keep this in mind.

 

[gladius]

And by the way, if you read proper scriptures about "IMAM MEHDI". You will learn that he will be one of the best Islamic leaders and will work hard to establish peace on earth.

And not destroy the world as some believe it to be! :roll:

You can say that he will bring peace all you want, but I read alot of those writtings from various interpreters, the outcome is not a peaceful one.

Yes, the Mahdi will work hard to bring about peace throughout the world---right after he tries conquers it.

This is from one of many Islamic websites (NOT my own interprtation), it is very clear what most Muslims believe will happen.

Mahdi will lead Muslims to a great victory against the Christian Romans (i.e. All the white Europeans including the Americans). This great war is called al-Malhamah al-Kubrah or Armageddon. It will end up with a great victory to Muslims against Romans after six years. Muslims will take over their capital Rome (this can be any city)...

...Then, you will invade Rome (the Romans) and Allah will grant it (to you).

http://www.islamicweb.com/history/mahdi.htm

There you go I'm not making any of this up.

If the Mahdi with his Islamic Empire tries to conquer Rome or any other major European city, then it will result in WW III. And if the Mahdi doesn't do as it is said then he isn't the Mahdi, so he is bascily stuck into starting WW III, that is the predicamnet here.

Thats simply what it says and I'm going by that. You may have a different interpretation, or you may be trying to sugarcoat, I don't know. But I have to go with the majority of writtings that I find.

Cough! - Nostradamus interpreters - Cough!

I wasn't going by the writtings of Nostradamus, but by the Islamic writtings themselves. (But Nostradamus does have a good track record of predicting future events but thats another story)

 

[bulldogg]

Every (insert nationality here) ought to be acquainted with the ambitious views of (insert rival world power here), her eternal thirst after universal dominion, and her continual encroachment on the property of her neighbours... our trade, our liberties our country, nay all the rest of Europe, are in a continual danger of falling prey to the common Enemy, the universal Cormorant, that would, if possible, swallow up the whole globe itself.

These words were spoken and recorded more than 250 years ago. I rewrite them here to bring to light the positively melodramatic nature of politics and those in power in their constant fear mongering to the masses.

Each decade seems to bring a new and unbearable danger that if we are to believe our masters would threaten all that we hold near and dear to us. It has been echoed down through the ages and will continue long after this latest threat has passed.

Why is it that we are continually sucked into these scripts unfit for even a low brow Jerry Bruckheimer movie?

FYI, the original quote was uttered by William Pitt to the House of Commons in 1775 and he spoke of the then all encompassing evil of the world, France.
:roll:

 

[FULLMETALJACKET]

dont count on it...

 

[Rabs]

Im not seeing an Islamic purge into europe anytime soon, there simply too far behind and the gap is growing not shrinking military tech wise.

I dont want to get this into a my daddy can beat up your daddy thread, but the Arab nations simply dont have the tech to really threaten europe with conventional weapons and if europe is adopted into the US missle defense, potientionally even from ballastic attacks.

"Pakistan has announced that it will procure 150 planes by 2015, which will replace the Chengdu F-7."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17 I mean sure pakistan is going to ...nt see the middle east really being a threat.

 

[gladius]

You're gonna have to read thread, since I already gave the answers to counter what you are trying to point out.

To Summarize:

Its not just Arabs but all Muslims who will join the battle over 1.5 billion of them.

The Islamic empire will offset the West' technology with manpower. They are experiencing a population boom right now, Europe a population decline.

The opening stages of the war will probably have the Islamics fielding some 500 to 1000 divisons, versus the West fielding some 40 to 80 divisions. Even with superior tech the numerical odds are staggering to fend off. Thats if the tech works at all, because...

The EMP weapon will be a deciding factor in crippling the West' dependency on tech.

The in country populous of Muslims in Europe will make it easier for the invaders to attack, either political means or uprisings (remember the riots in France).

The Islamic mandate for fullfiling their prophecy will make this war happen, simply because they believe it will be fullfilled. If it wasn't for this then there might not be a war. Do you get this? Most of you are seeing this from a Western perspective that maybe why you don't understand the crux of this matter. It not just a bunch of hyperbole, to over a billion people it is something real.

The is just the main stuff in a nutshell if you want more detail read through the thread.

 

[Mohmar Deathstrike]

I hate to steer this back on topic but here goes.

Yes, there are an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and I do not find the thought of a well motived army of 200,000,000 Mulims screaming "Allahu Ackbar!" and attempting to March on Jerusalem and Rome all that hard to believe. If you recall this happened many times in a series of wars we like to call the Crusades.

Yeah, except it was an army of Christians that attempted to march on Jerusalem

But Nostradamus does have a good track record of predicting future events but thats another story

Yeah Nostradamus interpreters always say that an event was predicted by him AFTER the event itself happened. :roll:

Name one instance were interpreters predicted an event BEFORE it happened please.