Rights act 'impossible in Iraq'

SwordFish_13

Active member
Hi,

They are related so i will Group them okey :)

Rights act 'impossible in Iraq'

It would be "impossible" to apply the European Convention on Human Rights to British troops in Iraq, the High Court heard on Thursday.

The court is hearing a challenge over the deaths of six Iraqis allegedly at the hands of British soldiers.

The families are seeking a ruling forcing a "full and independent" inquiry into the deaths.

Government QC Christopher Greenwood said applying the convention would mean "war as it has never been fought".

But that did not mean there was a legal black hole operating in the country, he said.

Judges heard on Wednesday that British troops had killed a 26-year-old hotel worker by repeatedly beating him on the neck, chest and genital areas.

On Thursday, Rabinder Singh QC said the failure to adequately investigate had breached the Iraqis' human rights.

The six test cases also include the shootings of five Iraqi civilians.

Four of the victims were either at home, walking in the street or driving when they were shot, allegedly by soldiers from the King's Own Regiment.

The deaths of hotel worker Baha Mousa and an Iraqi police commissioner shot while on his way to a judge's house were allegedly caused by soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

Mr Singh said that in five of the cases investigations had been ruled out by the commanding officer or those in his command chain.

"The troubling factor, among others, is there is often reference to how investigations would be futile.

"There were no autopsies, no statements from external witnesses."

The sixth case relating to the death of Mr Mousa "illustrates how different it can be", Mr Singh said.

"We are told about forensics, photos and the bringing in of pathologists."

Rights act

Two High Court judges must decide whether the Human Rights Act 1998 applies to the British troops in south-east Iraq during the period of occupation and, if so, whether there should be an independent inquiry to investigate the alleged post-war deaths of a total of 37 Iraqi civilians.

Mr Singh told the judges European human rights laws, which protect the right to life and freedom from torture or inhuman and degrading treatment, applied to troops in Iraq.

Rights act

Two High Court judges must decide whether the Human Rights Act 1998 applies to the British troops in south-east Iraq during the period of occupation and, if so, whether there should be an independent inquiry to investigate the alleged post-war deaths of a total of 37 Iraqi civilians.

Mr Singh told the judges European human rights laws, which protect the right to life and freedom from torture or inhuman and degrading treatment, applied to troops in Iraq.


"I literally could not bear to look at him"
--Daoud Mousa

Iraq case crucial for UK military
But Professor Greenwood argued the convention would only extend outside a European state's territory when it has effective control of that territory.

"The UK has never had effective control of south-eastern Iraq," he told the court.

Source

Red Cross report: British details

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) report on the treatment of Iraqi detainees by coalition troops has not been published officially but leaked copies of the document are available on the Wall Street Journal's website.

The report does not generally distinguish between British and American forces but there are specific criticisms which appear to be aimed at areas under British command. Those are:

The ICRC examined the arrest of nine men, one of whom died, by coalition forces in Basra on 13 September 2003.

"Following their arrest, the nine men were made to kneel, face and hands against the ground, as if in a prayer position.

"The soldiers stamped on the back of the neck of those raising their head. They confiscated their money without issuing a receipt."

The report says the men were later "severely beaten" by coalition troops.

"One of the arrestees died following the ill-treatment... Prior to his death, his co-arrestees heard him screaming and asking for assistance."

The report says the death certificate for the 28-year-old married father-of-two mentioned "cardio-respiratory arrest - asphyxia" as the condition leading to his death but said its cause was "unknown" and should be referred to the coroner.

Eyewitnesses told the ICRC the man had a broken nose, several broken ribs and cuts to the face "consistent with beatings".

On 3 October, the commander of the coalition forces in Basra offered the man's father his condolences, said an investigation had been launched and that those responsible would be punished, the report continues.

It says two of the other men arrested were put in hospital with "severe injuries".

Concerns are raised about the interrogation section of the Umm Qasr camp, run initially by British forces, then by the Americans, and from 25 September 2003 by British troops again.

The ICRC told the commander of British Armed Forces on 1 April 2003 at the coalition central command base in Doha about ill-treatment used by military intelligence officers at the camp.

"This intervention had the immediate effect to stop the systematic use of hoods and flexi-cuffs in the interrogation section of Umm Qasr."

A man "claimed his car was confiscated when he was arrested by the CF (Coalition Forces) in Basra on 16 July 2003", adds the report.

Source

Iraqis win death test case probe

The family of an Iraqi civilian allegedly killed by UK troops have won a challenge against the government's refusal to order a full inquiry.

The High Court ruled on Tuesday that Baha Mousa's death in British custody in Iraq fell within the European Convention on Human Rights.

And inquiries into his death were inadequate under the requirements of the convention, judges said.

But judicial reviews into five other deaths in southern Iraq were ruled out.

Their families will be appealing against the judgement.

'Historic day'

Downing Street has said it will study the judgement, but the families' solicitor Phil Shiner described it as "a historic day for human rights and the rule of law in the UK".

Father-of-two Mr Mousa, 28, a hotel receptionist, was arrested with eight men seized at a hotel in Basra in September 2003.

He was allegedly beaten to death while in the custody of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

The Iraqi families' lawyer argued that failing to adequately investigate the death breached the European Convention on Human Rights.

Outside jurisdiction

Ministry of Defence lawyers argued the UK-controlled area of southern Iraq was outside European jurisdiction.

But Lord Justice Rix and Mr Justice Forbes ruled that UK jurisdiction could extend to a UK-run prison, but did not apply "to the total territory of another state".

They said as Mr Mousa was in custody when he died, his case came within the UK's jurisdiction.

The other five Iraqis did not die in custody, so their cases had to fail, they said.

Inadequate investigation

And it was difficult to say that the investigation which had already occurred "has been timely, open or effective", the judges said.

Other allegations involving British soldiers included the shooting of an Iraqi police commissioner and the shooting of four Iraqi civilians in May 2003.

Both sides were granted permission to appeal.

A Ministry of Defence spokeswoman said later the judgment was still being considered. She added the MoD would issue a statement later today.

Source


And After the new Government is to be Elected in Iraq and the Elected Government can take up these Cases thats why Troops immunity talks 'advancing'

Troops immunity talks 'advancing'

Negotiations on the handover of power in Iraq have reached an "advanced stage", said the UK government.

Demands that coalition troops remain immune from prosecution by Iraqis after the handover of power will be dealt with in the new UN resolution.

BBC correspondent Jonathan Beale said UK and US forces want to remain under their own jurisdictions, even after the creation of a sovereign Iraq.

A government source said a draft of the resolution could go out this week.

But they stressed there was no agreement as yet on the question of immunity, which forms a small part of the overall negotiations.

Abuse allegations

Meanwhile a leaked memo suggests strong UK criticism of US tactics.

A Foreign Office memo to ministers, leaked to the Sunday Times, shows there are deep concerns within the British government.

It says the UK is struggling to convince US troops to adopt a more tactful approach in dealing with Iraqis.

Agreement on the resolution governing the return of Iraqi sovereignty, set for 30 June, needs to be reached in the next few weeks.

One of the biggest sticking points is the issue of whose laws the remaining foreign troops will be subject to - their own or Iraqi laws.

Giving them immunity is likely to be controversial after allegations of abuse by troops of Iraqis.

But, our correspondent reports, British and American governments want guarantees soldiers will remain under their own laws.

Under an order signed by the Coalition Provisional Authority, known as Order 17, coalition forces have immunity from prosecution.

Negotiators are seeking to prolong that arrangement after the transfer of power.

Former British army commander Colonel Bob Stewart said troops would in any case continue to face court martials under international law or by national authorities.

"This is the normal way foreign forces are covered legally in a different country, because the law in Iraq is likely to be different from in the UK," he said.

It prevents soldiers facing severe penalties, such as the death penalty, for crimes considered more minor in their home state, he said.

But he criticised the "light" sentences for US soldiers who had already been found guilty at a court martial.

'Systematic torture'

Many believe Iraqis should have the right to seek redress in their own courts or the sovereignty of the new state would be undermined.

A Foreign Office spokesman said the legal status of multinational forces after handover would be discussed by the military and the new interim government and covered in a new UN resolution.

The news has emerged as the Independent on Sunday reveals more claims of prisoner abuse allegedly carried out by members of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

It reports that the High Court is to consider claims the regiment carried out the "systematic torture of Iraqi civilians under the direction of an officer".

Five Iraqis said to have been arrested along with Baha Mousa, who died in British custody, have given detailed witness statements to the newspaper about their alleged ordeal.

A spokeswoman for the Army said there was already an investigation under way into the circumstances surrounding Baha Mousa's death, but could not comment on specific allegations.

She added that the Army would not tolerate abuse of prisoners in custody.

Source


Peace
-=SF_13=-
 
what?????

Whats that supposed to prove? Uk arn't the only ones being like this other countries have done worse and i think we know who
 
Hi,

Whats that supposed to prove?


Human Right Condition In Iraq maybe ?

Uk arn't the only ones being like this other countries have done worse and i think we know who

because they are a part of Coailition Troops iwould sy it's a group responsibility ..............But s i took thsoe Articles form BBC it might be the cause as they wouldhave wanted to focus on their Country and troops more so gave a More UK prspersciptive of thngs ? .....that's why there is more mantion of UK there ? .................and a reason because others are doing worse we can also do a bit of it too is not a valid reason or is it ?


Peace
-=SF_13=-
 
Re: what?????

Anya1982 said:
Whats that supposed to prove? Uk arn't the only ones being like this other countries have done worse and i think we know who

You might also mean that since the US did wrong the others can do the same? Cm on.
 
Back
Top