Right for U.S military to kill ally country's civilian

[Korean Seaboy]

Well, although an almost forgotten incident in South Korea, nevertheless it is a most tragic one.
One day, two ordinary schoolgirls Hyeo-Sun and Mee-Sun were walking down a little-used, country road. Suddenly, an American M113 came racing up the road, and practically ran over those innocent, two schoolgirls. Yet there were circumstances. The American soldiers that were operation the vehicle were sleepy and were in a state of fatigue, along with other conditions to consider.Although this was widely reported incident in South Korea, it hardly came over the Pacific to America. The worst things are that it was in 2002 and was fairly recent and that the American soldiers were unpunished. It was also discovered that the U.S military stationed at South Korea had the right to kill any South Korean citizens, but through arm-twisting and shady deals.
I'm not an anti-American. My country has been both helped many times by America. I went to America for 1.5 years, and I love the place. The only thing I dislike are some (not all) American's attitude and the divided government. So don't accuse me of being anti-American.

 

[A Can of Man]

Yeah, before anyone accuses this guy of being anti-American, you do have to consider that as far as we know, no one went to jail over the accident. Now although the anti-American elements in Korea accused this of being some kind of murder, anyone looking at this even close to objectivity would know that this was a case of involuntary manslaughter, not murder.
I can't imagine any soldier in the United States Army, especially during peacetime, who would intentionally run over civilians on the road.
However, by not sending anyone to prison over the matter, the message sent to Koreans was "to us, you guys aren't even people."
After all, we know how much of a fit Americans get into if we kind of "mistreat" their dogs.

I don't know what you mean by devistated by America. America's saved our butts twice and the only real time I can imagine where American troops faced off against our folks was when we burned down a US merchant ship thinking that we were being invaded. The USMC arrived, killed a bunch of people and left. But you can't expect to burn down a merchant ship from the US and not expect to get f*cked up.

A few things about this matter:
1) What were the two school girls doing out there in the middle of the night?
2) How on earth did they not notice a convoy coming down the road? That stuff is loud, the ground shakes. GET OFF THE ROAD.
So it's not like they're completely devoid of any faults. It's like walking onto a train track at night when feel the ground shake and the whistle go off. Heck, standing in front of a convoy with armor heading towards you is much louder than a train even.

Another reason why I dislike references to this incident.
It's FAR too politicized in Korea. It was a road accident. No one went to jail for it. That sucks. Maybe the next time an American is killed accidentally in Korea we'll give those responsible a get-out-of-jail-free card. I don't know. But what it's NOT, is murder. And I'm sick and tired of the leftists putting up those damned circular stickers all over the subway...

The female figure that is in the front, in blue to the left is the one that's most frequently used. It's supposed to represent the two girls who were killed that night.

Plus, I think this candlelight vigil thing is totally gay. What happened to those REAL protests from the 80's? Hell those guys even had good music.

But I'm usually on the side of the riot police.
Often I wished I was a riot policeman.

OORAH get some!!!

 

[Wallabies]

I can't find anything on the incident so can you please supply a source so that I can read about it.

Sounds like the girls are at fault. Was the hatch down or up? Did it hit the girls after just coming around a bend or rise or were they in a depression in the road? Were they obscured by dust? Soldiers all over the world die in training and no one gets sent to jail. You drive your civilian vehicle and hit a person jaywalking and it's not your fault.

Are all the South Koreans who want the yanks out North Korean spies?

 

[Korean Seaboy]

I'm, sorry, but the incident itself is not what I'm really emphasizing right now. The thing is that it's outrageous (sorry no offense) that it was discovered that by law, the U.S military can kill a Korean civilian. It was first made in the Kang-Wha-Do contract, and it was never amended since. So, it can argued that the U.S military can kill any Korean civilian and get over with it.

 

[Chukpike]

I'm, sorry, but the incident itself is not what I'm really emphasizing right now. The thing is that it's outrageous (sorry no offense) that it was discovered that by law, the U.S military can kill a Korean civilian. It was first made in the Kang-Wha-Do contract, and it was never amended since. So, it can argued that the U.S military can kill any Korean civilian and get over with it.

You probably misunderstand how it works.

US troops in foreign countries are subject to the US Military Justice System. If military personnel commits a crime in that country it will be determined by the US military whether he will be tried under the US Military System or turned over to the Civilian authorities. It does not mean US troops can kill civilian or military of the host country and not be prosecuted.

It is even possible that they good be tried twice for the same offense. Once by the US Military and once by civilian author ties.

If you think the system is wrong then it should be taken up with the South Korean government who agreed to it. With out the agreement the US would graciously leave the host country.

P.S. Quite often the military sentence is harder than civilian punishment.

 

[03USMC]

It's called a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) you want em punished under ROK law have your goverment rework the SOFA they signed.

 

[A Can of Man]

Link to the incident.
http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/13/gi-myths-the-2002-armored-vehicle-accident/

After reading it, I think it's probably one of the most detailed and most impartial report ever written on the incident.
Actually I'd like to correct what I wrote in my initial post about the incident. Looks like I was mistaken about several things. After reading this report it makes a LOT more sense now. But like I said, there was a lot of misinformation flying around about this incident. I have heard that it happened at night, I had heard the girls were crossing a road, all the way to the ridiculous such as "the driver of the vehicle was crazy." Glad I got to read this thing.

This part is the key:

"The driver of the AVLB Sergeant (SGT) Mark Walker saw the Bradleys coming down the left side of the road, but could not see the two girls walking on the right side of the road due to the shape and design of the AVLB that blocked the driver’s vision to his right. The commander of the AVLB, SGT Fernando Nino who was seated above Walker was overall responsible for directing the movement of the vehicle. He did see someone with a red shirt walking along the side of the road and tried to radio to SGT Walker to stop the vehicle. Due to the noise made by a large tracked vehicle like an AVLB, the vehicle’s driver and commander can only communicate through radio head-sets that are wired to each other in the vehicle. When SGT Nino tried to communicate his warning to Walker, there was a failure with the internal radio and Walker could not hear Nino’s warning because of cross talk on the radio.
The AVLB has a width of 3.67 meters and the right lane of the highway they were travelling on was 3.7 meters wide. Walker moved the AVLB slightly to the right in order to give his AVLB more room between him and the on coming convoy of Bradleys. This simple reaction would become something that both men in the AVLB and everybody involved in the convoy that day would regret for the rest of their lives."

So although it was an accident, It probably should have been judged as involuntary manslaughter, in my opinion anyway.

If you think the system is wrong then it should be taken up with the South Korean government who agreed to it. With out the agreement the US would graciously leave the host country.

Although both sides benefit from American presence in the country, I don't think it's something so light that the US would simply withdraw over a disagreement over legal jurisdiction. You may want America to leave Korea but apparently the US government has its reasons for wanting troops there.

Overall, I think the US botched the trial and the Koreans over politicized the whole thing. The whole damned incident was a disgrace to the entire country.

Are all the South Koreans who want the yanks out North Korean spies?

No. There are so many sides, so many opinions and factions involved in this that it'd be a huge topic all onto itself.

Also, I don't blame the US for not putting those involved in the incident under South Korea's jurisdiction. Although as a rule you would recieve a fair trial, considering the circumstances, it probably would have not been possible.

 

[A Can of Man]

weird double post...

 

[03USMC]

After the last few years , I'm all in favor of pulling out and letting the ROK deal with the Dear leader on their lonesome....but thats just me. Fark ya ...you think your able then farkin do it.

 

[Chukpike]

So although it was an accident, It probably should have been judged as involuntary manslaughter, in my opinion anyway.

Although you stated it was an accident, you think they should be tried for involuntary manslaughter? Based on what?

You may want America to leave Korea but apparently the US government has its reasons for wanting troops there.

There was nothing in my post saying I wanted the US to leave.
Although I did not state it as clearly as 03UCMJ, I said the same thing.

It's called a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) you want em punished under ROK law have your goverment rework the SOFA they signed.

The US has been an ally to the ROK for along time but after reading more of your link it appears there are a lot of South Koreans that would like us to leave. It is up to the Republic of Korea as to whether the US stays are goes.

 

[A Can of Man]

Actually 03, the anti-American wave has for the most part passed. I haven't seen a serious Anti-American demonstration there between 2007 and 2009. Dunno. Maybe I missed one. But it was mostly about President Lee Myung-bak.

Truth is, there really isn't a need for US ground combat forces to be in South Korea. The RoK Military can deal with that itself. The two things South Korea needs from the US currently is satellite surveilance and air power. But even without that, it'd probably still be sufficient to defeat the North Koreans. Just at a much higher cost.

Although you stated it was an accident, you think they should be tried for involuntary manslaughter? Based on what?
Because they did kill someone. If you accidentally fire a weapon and you really didn't mean it but you killed someone anyway, odds are you won't walk free for it.


There was nothing in my post saying I wanted the US to leave.
Although I did not state it as clearly as 03UCMJ, I said the same thing.
I said "may." As in "might." As in, I'm not saying you really do.


The US has been an ally to the ROK for along time but after reading more of your link it appears there are a lot of South Koreans that would like us to leave. It is up to the Republic of Korea as to whether the US stays are goes.
Like I said, the anti-American wave has for the most part passed and unfortunately they're the ones who like to protest a lot. Even so, it's largely passed. The last President, Noh Moo-hyeon, wasn't just bad at juggling the US-South Korea relations. He was pretty piss poor with most foreign relations and had this obsession with befriending North Korea. I'm glad that's over. If we really put it to a vote, we'd probably elect the US military to stay.

 

[-- Dusty]

That's a really sad event. Personally I think the $1,000 is pretty meager in comparison to the family's loss.

 

[A Can of Man]

That was probably just the initial.
$1,000 doesn't go very far in Korea. That's like about a two week's wage in a rather low paying job.
Yes it was a sad event and unfortunately the anti-American elements just sh@t all over it.
But I'd say it was just a very bad time for South Korea - US relations. It's different right now. These things come and go.

 

[Chukpike]

That's a really sad event. Personally I think the $1,000 is pretty meager in comparison to the family's loss.

You would need to read further into 13Th-Redneck's link to see that the US Military unit involved raised $22,000.00 plus $30,000.00 for a memorial.

 

[-- Dusty]

Chuk, I did. I must have missed it. I read the description of the accident, and a chapter after that, but then scanned the rest.

 

[A Can of Man]

It was very thoughtful of them.
You can't trade your kid's life for $20,000 or anything but there's nothing anyone can do to bring them back.

The accident just couldn't have happened at a worse time.

 

[MSG Glenn]

Admittedly I haven't done any research on this incident nor did I read 13th Redneck's link but the OP stated that the 2 girls were "practically run over". Either they were or they weren't. Almost every day of the week I "practically" get in an accident or am "practically" run over. No harm, no foul.

I'll read more about this when I have more time.

 

[A Can of Man]

Yes, they got run over.
But it was not on purpose.
I'm not going to edit someone else's writing when I quote it word for word.

Or would you like more details?
What normally happens to people who get crushed under the tracks of an armored vehicle? Yeah, that.

 

[MSG Glenn]

I'll take your word for it, 13th. I'm sorry but I was on my way out to catch an appointment at the time & was curious. My "senior moment" moments would probably have me forget all about it. I'm sure it was accidental & it was a terrible misfortune.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[A Can of Man]

No worries.
Yeah it was a terrible accident.
If it were not for the loss of life, I'd say the politicization of the incident was far worse. It set back US-RoK relations to new lows and made life for all pro-American groups in South Korea very hard.