The right to defend oneself in the UK - Page 3




View Poll Results :Should people in the UK be allowed to own firearms for self-defence?
YES, but I am an American 11 47.83%
NO, but I am an American 2 8.70%
YES, and I am from the UK or Europe 3 13.04%
NO, and I am from the UK or Europe 7 30.43%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Boots
 
December 7th, 2004  
Shadowalker
 
 
Im glad to see that it looks like the rules are going to be chnged, even our top politicians and policemen are saying they would consider it acceptable to injure even kill an intruder if they threatened there lives.
January 3rd, 2005  
Grand Mater Flash
 
I wudnt want a gun. I'd probably shoot my brother.
thts my reason anyway.
January 3rd, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
so so much wrong with the argument FOR guns. people in the UK/Europe are aparently JUST FINE without guns, so why push the point? does an american in the UK feel naked walking around without his hand cannon? probably, and that is the root of this thread i think.


NZ has very simailar laws to the UK on guns, and we have the following researce available to us;

the favoured weapon for robberies is the sawn-off shotgun;
the cheapest illegal guns are shotguns, which have an average price of around $100, whereas pistols usually fetch over $1,000;
handguns are used in crime to a greater extent than their proportion of the national armoury; and
guns used in domestic violence are mostly owned by the offenders, but guns used for other criminal purposes are generally stolen by the offenders, or acquired from acquaintances and friends and probably stolen. [Part 2.3]


Relative Levels of Firearm Crime

In terms of relative levels of firearm crime, our gun crime rate is much less than the United States, but comparable with those in Canada and Australia, the Canadian figures for gun homicide being somewhat higher, probably because of its relatively high handgun population. [Part 3.4]

Gun Suicides

By far the majority of deaths from firearms are suicides. They make up 73 percent of firearms deaths, firearm crime 16 percent, and accidents 9 percent. Recent increases in suicides have given New Zealand one of the highest rates of suicide, and particularly of youth suicide. The increase in gun suicides has been less than the overall increase, but is still at an all-time high. The special hazard of firearm suicide is that firearms are one of the most lethal methods of suicide, ranking in lethality just below hanging. Again there is no clear remedy, but steps proposed to reduce the availability of guns in the home should help. [Part 3.2]

Accidental Deaths and Injuries Involving Firearms

Accidental deaths from firearms have averaged nine per year since 1980, less than 1 percent of total accidental deaths, most of which are motor vehicle fatalities. Although accidental deaths and injuries from firearms had declined over earlier decades, they have shown no consistent increase or decrease in recent years. Lately the rate of accidental deaths in New Zealand has been significantly higher than that in Australia, where the accidental death rate has continued to fall. It is suggested we learn from Australian experience.[Part 3.3]

Degrees of Control of Firearms

A United Nations draft report released last month puts New Zealand towards the middle of the international scale of degrees of control save in the one respect of "a record keeping system for firearms", where our abandonment of that type of control puts us in the minority of countries without such systems. The report also shows that recent changes of attitude in New Zealand certainly do not run ahead of international concerns and desires to achieve closer control over firearms.


one story that many New Zealanders remember watching is;

On November 13th, 1990, residents of the small seaside town of Aramoana awoke to a horrific nightmare. One of the town's residents, in a deranged state, had decided to take his fury out on the people around him. With his rifle he ran riot through the village, shooting helpless individuals whom fate had put in his path. By the time he was shot some 34 hours later, 12 people would have been executed.


full story here; http://www.crime.co.nz/c-files.asp?ID=7

why would anyone want firearms to be available at the level they are in the US? surely columbine would convince them otherwise
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Boots
January 3rd, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
[quote="chewie_nz" does an american in the UK feel naked walking around without his hand cannon? probably, and that is the root of this thread i think.


Nice sterotype ^^^^^^^^^. Just for your General fund of knowledge not every American owns or carries a sidearm. I do as a matter of employment unfortunately I can't say the same for my brother Officers in the UK. Who seem to be getting shot at on a regular basis now. So I guess the restrictions work. Well at least for the officers, they can't carry

I personally think if a citizen whacks the snot out of a burglar with a cricket bat they should not face criminal charges. If the goverment wants to curtail or restrict gun ownership thats the UK's business.
January 3rd, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
[quote=03USMC][quote="chewie_nz" does an american in the UK feel naked walking around without his hand cannon? probably, and that is the root of this thread i think.


Nice sterotype ^^^^^^^^^. Just for your General fund of knowledge not every American owns or carries a sidearm. I do as a matter of employment unfortunately I can't say the same for my brother Officers in the UK. Who seem to be getting shot at on a regular basis now. So I guess the restrictions work. Well at least for the officers, they can't carry

I personally think if a citizen whacks the snot out of a burglar with a cricket bat they should not face criminal charges. If the goverment wants to curtail or restrict gun ownership thats the UK's business.[/quote]

sometimes it's the stereotype that gets the attention
for the most part i agree with you. i remember the first time i saw an armed policeman here in NZ...it was a real shock. where i live it's still very uncommon (usually there are two glocks, 2 vests & a rifle in the "trunk" of a duty sergeants car though)

but to sum up; armed police = good
armed citizens = bad
and much better laws designed for the VICTIM

oh and one side point....the aromoana gun massacre happened justa very kays up the road from where i live now
January 3rd, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
It probably will come down to a cultral thing. I have not one problem with a law abiding citizen owning or carrying a weapon if they properly trained in all aspects of it.
January 4th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
that's a fair point too.

NZ has quite a lot of dear and pig hunters, (that includes me sometimes, i have a lee enfield rifle for those occasions) and i don't think anybody apart from the anti-hunting people have anything against that sort of ownership, but for us the whole self protection thing just doesn't come up