Rice urges Europe to not help arm China

A Can of Man

A Can of Man

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7233303

If Europe decides to arm China, this would be personally a very hard thing for me because once they do, those weapons can play a role against South Korea as well.
So that place that I have much attachment to would become my enemy. Life's a wh0re eh?
The case scenario in which China would go to war with American and South Korean troops is the one where North Korea falls and China wants to secure some Northern Korean highlands to help defend Beijing. Manchuria boasts no decent defensive points. The Chinese apparently are nervous about this. Arm them with sophisticated weapons and the eagerness to use arms in this scenario would be extremely high.
Come on Europe dammit. This is just getting silly.
 
yes but at the same time....after the US basically telling europe to go piss up a rope. how to you think a request that says..."no, please don't do bussiness with these people" will be recieved


i hope the EU is planning to fire up the rhetoric annon and blast it right back across the atlantic
 
When you say Europe, what countries are you talking about?
There have been reunions betewen europeans and chinesse politics concerning this issue?? I never heard of it...
If you are right, I think that it would be a big mistake of Europe. We have to remember what comunism did in Europe, and arming a potentional enemy is not very intelligent...
 
Looking from recent events, this is no surprise.

France and Germany both sold Iraq a fair share of weapons. You could also throw in Russia. When it came time to deal with Iraq, those same countries were dead set on "peace" after arming Iraq.

If Europe goes ahead and arms China, what is going to happen if/when there is some kind of international conflict with China? Will Europe be able to see through the mountains of money to do the right thing? Selling weapons to people half way around the world is a common practice. The US is quite guilty of that practice. When it comes to Afganistan and Iraq, we have had to fight against our own weapons. I also saw French, Russian and German weapons while I was in Iraq. The US military has every right to be pissed off that the EU is going through with this.

Let's not forget about those countries who feel influenced by China's military might.
 
chewie_nz said:
yes but at the same time....after the US basically telling europe to go piss up a rope. how to you think a request that says..."no, please don't do bussiness with these people" will be recieved


i hope the EU is planning to fire up the rhetoric annon and blast it right back across the atlantic
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Man, I don't think you get it. You can draw a great big nuke bull's eye on your butt too when the metal starts flying and Continents start dying.
 
Doody said:
Looking from recent events, this is no surprise.

France and Germany both sold Iraq a fair share of weapons. You could also throw in Russia. When it came time to deal with Iraq, those same countries were dead set on "peace" after arming Iraq.

If Europe goes ahead and arms China, what is going to happen if/when there is some kind of international conflict with China? Will Europe be able to see through the mountains of money to do the right thing? Selling weapons to people half way around the world is a common practice. The US is quite guilty of that practice. When it comes to Afganistan and Iraq, we have had to fight against our own weapons. I also saw French, Russian and German weapons while I was in Iraq. The US military has every right to be pissed off that the EU is going through with this.

Let's not forget about those countries who feel influenced by China's military might.
Click to expand...


It's all about the Euro's.
 
Well...

It is very funny to see SK, US, and Japan are the only positive contributors in Asia while Chinese is a bad guy and bent on destroying Asian cultures.

Also, is there a true friendship when dealing with global ploitics or merely strategic values. If all for strategic values, then I guess everyone (allies of some sort) is wearing a cloak with a knife, Sux.
 
lol, have u heard of what the chinese high level diplomat have to say when he was asked about the eu arms ban??

he said: " who said we will buy euro weapons??"
 
staurofilakes said:
When you say Europe, what countries are you talking about?
There have been reunions betewen europeans and chinesse politics concerning this issue?? I never heard of it...
If you are right, I think that it would be a big mistake of Europe. We have to remember what comunism did in Europe, and arming a potentional enemy is not very intelligent...
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I think the main characters in this are France and Germany.
Usually when the two are involved the label goes "Europe." After all they are the biggest economies on continental Western Europe.

Sales to China will only further degrade relations with the US and also with friendly East Asian countries such as South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and even upset Southeast Asia to a degree. It can really do no good for Europe as a whole. I think it will be a big mistake. If China can reach its potential as a super power, it's not just America that will be under threat. Europe is likely to be dragged into this too.
Most people who understand economics (not really me but I know several including a head of a bank office) that tell me that looking at figures now, Chinese Hegemony is a real possibility.


Boobies said:
It is very funny to see SK, US, and Japan are the only positive contributors in Asia while Chinese is a bad guy and bent on destroying Asian cultures.

Also, is there a true friendship when dealing with global ploitics or merely strategic values. If all for strategic values, then I guess everyone (allies of some sort) is wearing a cloak with a knife, Sux.
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No one said they're bent on destroying Asian Cultures.
But these are not a fair and just lot. Their record against their own people is just apalling and history has taught us a strong China is a real pain, and unlike Japan, China never learned... in fact, is back with a sort of vengeance. Makes it even more of a problem.
There are some true friendships, though rare. Most of it is strategic value, but remember that the things it protect have real and dear value and meaning.
Not everyone's wearing a cloke with a knife. Because if one guy stabs the other, he too will die.


Mech said:
lol, have u heard of what the chinese high level diplomat have to say when he was asked about the eu arms ban??

he said: " who said we will buy euro weapons??"
Click to expand...

If it's available, you'll buy it. The diplomat's just trying to be a smart bargainer.
 
Doody said:
Looking from recent events, this is no surprise.

France and Germany both sold Iraq a fair share of weapons. You could also throw in Russia. When it came time to deal with Iraq, those same countries were dead set on "peace" after arming Iraq.

If Europe goes ahead and arms China, what is going to happen if/when there is some kind of international conflict with China? Will Europe be able to see through the mountains of money to do the right thing? Selling weapons to people half way around the world is a common practice. The US is quite guilty of that practice. When it comes to Afganistan and Iraq, we have had to fight against our own weapons. I also saw French, Russian and German weapons while I was in Iraq. The US military has every right to be pissed off that the EU is going through with this.

Let's not forget about those countries who feel influenced by China's military might.
Click to expand...

The US armed the Taliban too, its not all Europe's fault

USA supplied sophisticated weapons to the Taliban when Russia invaded Afghanistan, did you forget that ?
 
the_13th_redneck said:
I think the main characters in this are France and Germany.
Usually when the two are involved the label goes "Europe." After all they are the biggest economies on continental Western Europe.
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UK has got a larger economy than france and is about to be overtaken by china. That is why europe wants to do business with china, because it is the fastest growing economy in the world and will possibly be the 2nd/3rd largest in a couple of years. Not doing business with china is stupid for businesses as it is such a huge market place. We dont know yet what sort of technology the EU is willing to sell to china, they may be barriers put in place to stop some exports, as if war does break out then europe will want it to be a quick war, due to loss of business and they wont want to help prolong it.
I wouldnt be suprised if the arms ban is lifted, to see american firms operating in china, through european branches of its business or through global partners, its too good an opportunity to pass up.
 
Shadowalker said:
UK has got a larger economy than france and is about to be overtaken by china. That is why europe wants to do business with china, because it is the fastest growing economy in the world and will possibly be the 2nd/3rd largest in a couple of years. Not doing business with china is stupid for businesses as it is such a huge market place. We dont know yet what sort of technology the EU is willing to sell to china, they may be barriers put in place to stop some exports, as if war does break out then europe will want it to be a quick war, due to loss of business and they wont want to help prolong it.
I wouldnt be suprised if the arms ban is lifted, to see american firms operating in china, through european branches of its business or through global partners, its too good an opportunity to pass up.
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No one said not to Trade with China. Just don't sell them military equipment and technology in the direct. Just make life a little harder for them. Not trading doesn't make any economic sense... and it won't work. Not selling them weapons. Yes that is the least anyone can do.


k19 said:
China is a real pain, and unlike Japan, China never learned...

the_13th_redneck what you think they were doing? your nationals burining theirselves for nothing? if japan truly learned, there would't be some many uprising against them.
]
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These guys are idiots. In Japan right now the Japanese aren't like in full favor of this whole island annexation thing. In fact, it is the Korean press that make it look like the whole of Japan is after the islands. So idiots like these get all emotional and think that burning their skins off will solve something.
It's idiots reacting to something done by idiots through a story told by idiots.
 
Yikes... what a crazy protester :shock:

The Chinese military copies designs from most western countries anyway. Their ground forces basically uses Russian 1960-1970 weapons but changes the name to TYPE-Insert number.

I think dealing firearms always makes problems. Its normally the rogue nations that are the best customers. Im not counting china as a rogue nation though. The chinese never really buy foriegn weapons but buy designs and use them to create their own weaponry.

Its sad though that alot of people think that china will go on a all out lebensraum....
 
Well...

Why can't super Power of the US be friend or at least not so hostile towards a coming-up power? Why does the whole thing has to be one-sided (The US side). Or, power has to be unshareable.

If you have doubts about others, isn't it good for you to work out the differences instead of dramatizing the differences and creating panics (referrs to China). You have to ask yourselves: "Do you want CHina to be a friend or foe?"

If you want it to be your enemy, I guess the anti-China movement is doing a good job with the US-Japan conglomerate (maybe SK but not sure 50-50 at this point I guess).

If you want to establish a friend and often-talked peace and stability in Asia, well, start work together and build relationship as friend, iron-out the kinks, and stop being hostile and back stabbing to get results or AHEAD.
 
It's all about the Euro's
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Yes, money make people blind. I think that we can use the some words ( It´s all about Dollars) concerning for example the war on Irak. Every body knows how important was to control such a reach country in oil and do not let the power of controling the markets to a maniatic like Saddam. We also have the problem that he said that he was gonna start seling oil in euros...

As the Pink Floyd songs says: "Money is a crime"
 
staurofilakes said:
It's all about the Euro's
Click to expand...

Yes, money make people blind. I think that we can use the some words ( It´s all about Dollars) concerning for example the war on Irak. Every body knows how important was to control such a reach country in oil and do not let the power of controling the markets to a maniatic like Saddam. We also have the problem that he said that he was gonna start seling oil in euros...

As the Pink Floyd songs says: "Money is a crime"
Click to expand...
:eek:fftopic: But.......................................

Hook. Line. And Sinker. You never disappoint when it comes to spinning something into America Bashing do you? Kinda a pattern with you Huh?

Hugo Chavez also said he's going to sell Venezuelan oil for Euros recently. Guess he's next huh Mulder? :roll:

As far as Saddam. I'd sell for Euros too if it was to Countries that helped out despite an embargo.
 
If you want to establish a friend and often-talked peace and stability in Asia, well, start work together and build relationship as friend, iron-out the kinks, and stop being hostile and back stabbing to get results or AHEAD.
Click to expand...

The many reasons why this arms embargo have been feared by the United States is because of the very one word that causes controversy whether it's existance is legitimate: "TAIWAN".

Another issue concerning US actions is the 14 billion dollars arms package sent to Taiwan consisting a variety of Advanced and High-tech weapon systems. If the United States want to see balance and peace between Mainland China and Taiwan, both arms deals must be scrapped at once. Unfortunetly, Washington is often ignoring Beijing's pleads not to ship the arms package. Judging by this, then in my opinion, China has the right to purchase European Military Hardware.

It's not just about money in terms of EU-Sino Relations. It's about maximizing trade revenues, establishing strategic partnerships in the East, and exchanging cultural ties. The EU does not want to damage foreign relations.
 
Who cares what Rice Says. If China can't buy military equipment from Europe, they can turn to Russia. I think China needs more ships for its navy. The airforce is ok.
 
I think no matter what the west tries to do its just impossible to ignore China now and it will get increasingly difficult to impose such embargos in the future, China is gradually on the way of becoming almost as important as the US in world politics.US will have to learn to co-exist alongside another giant.

What the US is doing right now to convince the EU to not to lift the embargo is but natural in her self-defence and its called diplomacy, every other nation of the world does that (though to a lesser extent ;))

Everything and anything is fair in diplomacy as long as it benefits your country and people and guarantees their future dominance
 
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