Rice: Iran 'Central Banker' for Terror

I still think China and Russia are dragging their feet on the Iranian issue. Recently, they even went against the US and the EU on their statement to Iran because "it was too strongly worded." Some of you talk about diplomacy with Iran... diplomacy is what has been going on for the last 2-3 years and *gasp* it's not working. That nutty Iranian president is basically telling the world "f**k you all if you oppose us having nuclear technology." I'm totally for any nation to have nuclear technology under the NPT but, but Iran had a covert nuke program which thank God came into light because of a few brave defectors, and Iran sits on top of some of the world's biggest oil reserves, I don't see why they would need nuclear technology for "electricity." As far as I'm concerned, if this whole Iranian nuclear issue falls through, the blame rests solely with China and Russia, but I'd say more with China because at least Russia has tried to come up with proposals whereas China has been sitting back throwing around their veto weight (which I think they should hand over to Japan). China and Russia are only looking out for themselves because they invested heavily in Iran and they could care less if Iran had a nuke.

As for placing sanctions on Iran and them cutting off oil supplies. This is an unlikely scenario because 1) Iran have said they would not use such a measure, and 2) it would hurt them too. Iran supplies the world with crude oil but the world's refineries supplies them with gasoline due to the fact that Iran's refineries are outdated and/or non-functional.

I seriously hope the US, EU, and Israel are doing some great intel work to make some strategic strikes against Iranian nuclear/military sites... I also hope the smart half of the UN are going to tell China and Russia to suck a fat one if they keep pussy-footing the Iranian nuclear issue. Anyone with half a brain can tell that the Iranians are buying time as we speak to power up their centrifuges.
 
1. Iranian's nut president is not the one who is making all these decisions, he is likely the fourth most powerful governing body of Iran, there are a bunch of Guardian councils above him making decisions, so we cannot just simply reply upon what this dude say to judge Iran's next move

2. China puts the benefit of its 1.3 billion people first, (as every other government does), and even the possibility of cutting of the oil supply from Iran (15% of China's total oil imports) is enough to cause huge negative impact on China....

3. Solely blaming China and Russia on this mess is irresponsible...China and Russia didn't install Isreal..China and Russia didn't put up a corrupt Iranian King that finally leads to an islamic revolution, China and Russia already agreed to put this issue in UN security council. That is a huge step forward consider how much China and Russia have to risk here...

4. Giving Japan a veto power? are you kidding me? Japanese prime minister still worships first class war criminals of WW2 (same class with Hitler, if he were alive, and other major Nazi leaders, image German prime minister worhips Hitler....scary).
 
consider how much China and Russia have to risk here...
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Which is nothing compared to what Israel has to risk.

In my opinion there should only be two veto powers, the United States and China, represents the dual polar world were heading towards.
 
still, Chinese government should first consider the risk for Chinese people...then Isreal people...

but China is also worried about growing power of Islamic extremim, not just in the rest of the world, but also in China, like in the region of XingJiang

that is why China supports forwarding this issue to UN security council...
 
still, Chinese government should first consider the risk for Chinese people...then Isreal people...
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I agree completely governments should look after their own peoples first and foremost but, id suffer a dollar more per gallon for gas for a few months to not see an nuclear detonation in Israel id think China would do the same.
 
chinese-canadian said:
1. Iranian's nut president is not the one who is making all these decisions, he is likely the fourth most powerful governing body of Iran, there are a bunch of Guardian councils above him making decisions, so we cannot just simply reply upon what this dude say to judge Iran's next move

2. China puts the benefit of its 1.3 billion people first, (as every other government does), and even the possibility of cutting of the oil supply from Iran (15% of China's total oil imports) is enough to cause huge negative impact on China....

3. Solely blaming China and Russia on this mess is irresponsible...China and Russia didn't install Isreal..China and Russia didn't put up a corrupt Iranian King that finally leads to an islamic revolution, China and Russia already agreed to put this issue in UN security council. That is a huge step forward consider how much China and Russia have to risk here...

4. Giving Japan a veto power? are you kidding me? Japanese prime minister still worships first class war criminals of WW2 (same class with Hitler, if he were alive, and other major Nazi leaders, image German prime minister worhips Hitler....scary).
Click to expand...

1. I'm aware that the Iranian president's position is merely symbolic (to call themselves a "republic" in the same way that China mocks democracy by calling their leader a "president" when he is not voted into his position by the true population), but he also serves as a mouthpiece for the ayatollahs who sit on the Guardian council. If he said anything that was not to their liking, don't you think that they would have offed him by now? Sure some of the things he says are kind of outrageous but the general concept are inline with thsoe of the radicals sitting on the theocratic council.

2. I totally agree with you on the notion that every government looks out for the people they govern first but the issue at hand here is the security of the world and yes, even China's (as I remember my geography correctly, China is in Iran's backyard). Recently, China also signed a deal with Russia for them to install an oil pipeline from Siberia to China supplying China with oil. China has also been buying oil reserves (and loyalty away from Taiwan) from a vast majority of the South American countries. One or two more dollars more for a gallon of gas is an extremely low price to pay to keep nuclear weapons technology away from an unstable government.

3. Who's to say that blaming China and Russia on the Iranian issue irresponsible? If anything, it is evident! Israel has nothing to do with this. If anything, they are victims. I hope they are developing some countermeasures because they have a right ot defend themselves from a government who has outirhgtly called for their eradication. China would react in the same way if Taiwan or Japan had nuclear weapons. China and Russia (well more like China) do not want the UN Security Council involved if you've been keeping up with the news. They want the IAEA to handle the problem because they know that if it reaches the UNSC, pretty much every nation except for China and Russia will vote against Iran. IMHO, the IAEA are useless without the threat of force. It's simple policing rules; if you don't comply, we will use force to make you comply. During the recent drafting of the statements to Iran, the US and EU wanted to give Iran a timeframe of 2 weeks to comply and come clean with the UN, but China and Russia thought this was too short of a timeframe, so the US and EU agreed to extend it to 30-45 days, which is more than enough considering Iran has had 2-3 years to come clean. China and Russia's answer: "No, let's give them about a year..." Are you freakin kidding me?!! Do you know what kind of stuff Iran could obtain/create in a year?!! I place the blame mainly on China because at least Russia came up with a proposal to hold uranium enrichment on their soil whereas China has just been preaching their "hey, let's stick to diplomacy" tone over and over without offering any real solutions.

4. No, he doesn't honor them as war criminals, he honors them as soldiers who fought for their country and died. I expected a Chinese person would see this as honoring war criminals. In the same light, is it wrong if Americans honor dead Confederate soldiers because they fought for their right to have slaves? As far as I know, Japan contributes more to the UN, does not need "development aid" from a vast majority of the world, and is the only other nation in the world (the other is Britain) to actually militarily cripple the US, which is pretty damn hard to do. So they definitely have my respect. Plus everyone loves Sony, Honda, and Toyota (expected to overtake GM as #1 world car manufacturer in 2007) :rock:. I think China opposes the prime minister visiting the shrine because they are bitter that a nation 1/20th of their size and population owned them.... bad. Btw, I've visited the Yasukuni Shrine. It in no way honors war criminals... it focuses on the fact that the soldiers fought and died for their leaders no matter the ideology, which is TRUE loyalty. That honor is also evident in American soldiers: they may not agree with Bush's reasons for going to war, but they'll do it because it's their duty and volunteered service to their country.
 
2. Nope, Iran and China share no common borders
3.China also has concerns that pushing Iran too hard could lead to its withdrawal from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and expulsion of IAEA inspectors. That will be even harder for the world to know what is going on with Iran.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/21/iran.nuclear.ap/index.html
CHina basically wants both sides to sit down and talk. However, believe me, if the resolutoin of sanction really come up, China will vote as usual, abstain.

4. Soldiers follow orders. That is why the trial after WW2 did not convict every Japanese soldier (despite many of them personally did horrific things that you could not even image)....however, leaders were held responsible in those trials for war crimes and crime against humanity. and they became war criminals. That means the international community believes what these people did were totally wrong.
Yet here Japanese prime minister comes to worship these people for their wrong doings (specifically starting war on asian nations)
is that acceptable

now answer me, will you accept German prime minsters worship WW2 german war criminals for their "military services"?
then think about japan
 
chinese-canadian said:
2. Nope, Iran and China share no common borders
3.China also has concerns that pushing Iran too hard could lead to its withdrawal from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and expulsion of IAEA inspectors. That will be even harder for the world to know what is going on with Iran.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/21/iran.nuclear.ap/index.html
CHina basically wants both sides to sit down and talk. However, believe me, if the resolutoin of sanction really come up, China will vote as usual, abstain.

4. Soldiers follow orders. That is why the trial after WW2 did not convict every Japanese soldier (despite many of them personally did horrific things that you could not even image)....however, leaders were held responsible in those trials for war crimes and crime against humanity. and they became war criminals. That means the international community believes what these people did were totally wrong.
Yet here Japanese prime minister comes to worship these people for their wrong doings (specifically starting war on asian nations)
is that acceptable

now answer me, will you accept German prime minsters worship WW2 german war criminals for their "military services"?
then think about japan
Click to expand...

2. I know they don't but the point I was trying to convey is that if a nuke were to be detonated around Iran/the Middle East, I'm pretty sure the prevailing winds would not look too kindly on China's western border.

3. If Iran withdraws from the NPT, that would be a huge mistake on their part because the nations on the fence will most likely throw their vote for the US and EU due to rising suspicion. If you think about it, Iran already violated the NPT by developing a covert nuclear program years ago. If it weren't for the brave defectors who informed the West about it, I highly doubt Iran would have told the world about their nuke program until they had some pretty big nukes under their control. Just the fact that Iran would not hand over some papers requested by the IAEA makes it extremely suspicious. If Iran is not willing to comply with the IAEA under the terms of the NPT, what makes you think they'll comply with the UN?

4. Of course I know that war crimes are bad and a lot of things Japan and MANY other nations out there committed during various wars violated the rules of war under the Geneva accord, but like I stated above, the prime minister is NOT honoring the war crimes itself, he is honoring the soldiers who dutifully did their duty and did what was told by their leaders. I think a phrase that best sums my point up is, "Hate the sin, love the sinner." As for the German prime minister honoring Nazi crimes, of course I would be 200% against that, but I would have no qualms whatsoever with him honoring the German soldiers that fought and died under an insane regime. One way or another, they are German soldiers who only did what was told by the leaders they had faith in.
 
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