RESPECT

[Spartacus]

This forum has been an important source of information for me. I have gathered information and learned lessons from the members of this forum that will better prepare me for the road that lays ahead.

That said, I think WE ALL have forgotten a rule that was incorporated both overtly and subtly. That rule was RESPECT. I am as guilty as any one else, so the only finger I am pointing is at myself. I feel that we have forgotten this rule and are sliding into a pattern of one-upping each other or manifesting outright disrespect for each other. This forum is not about me, nor is it about you. It is not about who is right or who is wrong, or how many posts one can accumulate.

This forum IS about each other. It is about the exchange of information and discussion of topics. It is a place to voice opinions, hear ideas, gather information, and share experiences. It is a place to sharpen your mettle against the mettle of other members.

Prior/Current Service Members:
You are our examples and sources of information. The lessons you have learned and wisdom you can impart are invaluable assests to young people such as myself. Your wisdom and experience also inherently make you our mentors. We will learn from you, whether it be the information in a post or the manner in which it is written, our eyes are trained on you.

Future Service Members:
The lessons that can be learned here are more valuable than gold. The P/C members here know things you dont and their knowledge extends far beyond their job in the military. You may be well informed, and your input is valued, but remember who you are talking to. Listen to them and they will teach you. You may not like them, and you may not like what they say, but you will respect them.

Civilians:
There are lessons here for you too. The perspective you bring can add to the knowledge pool we can draw from. However, please remember that this is a military forum, and you do not live in that world. Bring respect with you and it will be shown to you.

Mods/Admins:
Thank you for your service. You have a difficult job keeping tabs on all of us and we do not help you out in the least. You do something most of us could never do, and that is keep our mouths shut in order to maintain neutrality and keep this forum running. I thank you for your desire to serve and for the manner in which you do so.

I do not mean to step on toes or act as a mod. I feel that we need to reflect on our cores before speaking our minds.

I will step off of my soapbox now.

 

[senojekips]

Respect is fine, but when given to those who are not worthy of it you open a Pandora's Box.

Respect implies integrity, and some just do not have it. What you are asking if I read you correctly is is for us to all just bite our tongues, this is not respect, it is thoughtless compliance.

Respect must be earned, not given.

Other than that, what you are asking does certainly have some merit, in that we could all possibly be a little more forgiving in our views and responses.

 

[MontyB]

Respect is fine, but when given to those who are not worthy of it you open a Pandora's Box.

Respect implies integrity, and some just do not have it. What you are asking if I read you correctly is is for us to all just bite our tongues, this is not respect, it is thoughtless compliance.

Respect must be earned, not given.

Other than that, what you are asking does certainly have some merit, in that we could all possibly be a little more forgiving in our views and responses.

I agree completely.

 

[Spartacus]

Respect is fine, but when given to those who are not worthy of it you open a Pandora's Box.

I agree. "Respect the uniform, not the man" fits well, but as members of this forum we were asked to be respectful regardless.

Respect implies integrity, and some just do not have it. What you are asking if I read you correctly is is for us to all just bite our tongues, this is not respect, it is thoughtless compliance.

No sir, that is not my request. My beliefs are that there is a difference between a discussion or debate and upping the ante on each other. I believe that if someone needs to be called out on something, it should be done but done in a manner compliant with Rule #1.

Respect must be earned, not given.

Again agreed. Precisely why more weight should be given to those who are more experienced. However, I would expect that experience to come with maturity enough to stay the need for self-gratification.

Other than that, what you are asking does certainly have some merit, in that we could all possibly be a little more forgiving in our views and responses.

I do not preach tolerance. Instead, I mean to direct our attention to things that extend beyond the scope of ourselves. I merely wish to allow continuing investment in the subsequent generations, something people like yourself started through your service.

Again, I do not mean to preach to you sir. I am merely clarifying my thoughts.

 

[senojekips]

1. Please do not call me Sir my name is Spike. I have not been knighted, nor granted a military commission. As we say here in Australia, "I worked for my living". :-D and I do see needless subservience as a distinct character flaw.

2. I do not see you as preaching. Your aims and desires are right on target, although I do think that it goes a lot further than respect.

As an ex serviceman, I must say that my time in the RAN did not teach me respect, however it did teach me what respect is, so all was not lost.

The military is not run as a democratic organisation, it cannot be.

In the Military respect is not necessarily earned, it is demanded. This makes those who are not deserving of respect stand out to those with whom they are made to work. Bigtime! It is here that one learns the difference between respect and mindless compliance. Some don't even get that far and buck the system, well,.... that's their decision.

Don't get me wrong, whilst a member of the services I met and worked with many many persons who both earned and received true respect, thankfully they are in the majority. I don't know if it is still the case, but in my opinion, in my day the forces seemed to attract the very best and the very worst in humankind, many of the latter soon got their just deserts, but as always a few got through.

You are certainly on the right track though.

 

[major liability]

I have a somewhat unconventional perspective on life that gets me in trouble sometimes, but I still try to repsect other forumites' opinions and knowledge. If I say something ignorant about the military as a civilian, by all means please correct me before I make an ass of myself in real life.

I'm just here to learn and discuss firearms, but I think I've gained a better understanding of the military way of life than I had before I read your posts.

Sometimes, though, I think everyone should step back and relax before posting, including myself.

 

[senojekips]

Being unconventional is not so bad, especially if you are aware of the fact.:-D

Being young and inexperienced is not a crime. Your awareness will be a good teacher.

 

[Yossarian]

Spartacus, I trust that you won't bend these words into a well rehearsed paragraph, explaining how badly I screwed up in saying this, (cause that has been happening to me allot lately, I think I am the sole source to blame.)

But, my respect for you , has just doubled, your words convey truths and virtues that I believe, are lost to the youth of the modern world. I am no saint, I make mistakes, I have done things that I wish I had not.

I know this thread is not about Sukio, it's about all of us. And that Respect can go all ways, let it be from a Student to a teacher. A father to a son, or a Ambassador, to a Ambassador. What you stated can be exchanged on all levels.

And, one personnel message to ALL MEMBERS HERE!!! I love this site, it's the best, and most well spoken, accurate, and mature forum that I have ever visited.

And to all comments, and other things, that may have caused grudges to form between my self, and all the others members. I am sorry, sometimes my words get out of ahead of me. And if you have anything against me, then let me know,I am constantly checking my e mail and PM box, trying to keep a eye out for anyone here who has a problem with my words, or actions.

I do not mean this, in a form of trying to cover my rear. It's just enlightening to be reminded, by Spartacus of the obvious, respect others, and it will be returned in kind. Don't let thinks get as far as blind hatred. When some people hit the point of rage, it's can 99% of the time be traced back to continuous harassment, or total disrespect.

I am reminded by this thread, that just the simplest thing can do wonders in the long run, with your relations with people.... And Spartacus, you are right, one up manship, is blasphemy, trying to constantly out do your peers, or elders, it waste time, it's to me, counter productive, it destroys one's relations with others

Humans are social creatures, it's how we managed to stay alive all this time,but do not forget, mankind has only been around for a few blinks of a eye, and if we are not careful, and let blind arrogance get a hold of us. In order to selfishly better ourselves, and shun others, then we may be own undoing.

For one of the first quotes I learned as a child. I say this, not to show off , or try to rub what small knowledge I have at my fellow members, to help explain what I am trying to convey here.

"A fool's heart, is in his mouth, the mouth of a wise man,....is in his heart"
-Benjamen Franklin

Spartacus, thank you for reminding me values that I should practice more often. Please don't take this reply the wrong way, I am trying to out do any one here.

Any way thanks, to you and the countless others here who have helped become a wiser person, I really mean that.

 

[senojekips]

Sukio, for a 15 year old, you show maturity beyond your years. Make good use of it and you will go far.

Over the years I too have done things I'm not proud of, but this is not the problem. The problem comes when we refuse to learn from our mistakes.

This brings us back to what is being discussed. The reason we sometimes see such "disrespect" for others shown here, is often bought about by the fact that here we do not have something that enforces "respect" in the military in cases where true respect is not deserved,... Fear!

In all honesty much of the military would collapse if it had to rely on true respect to achieve it's goals, so they have such things as the "Articles of War". (They have been superseded since my day, but no doubt there has been an equally nasty replacement).

This may sound somewhat draconian, but when all is said and done the military forces could work no other way.

 

[Spartacus]

Sukio

I agree with Spike and I appreciate the manner in which you took the point I was trying to make.

I hope that you do not take any of my posts, no matter how harsh they may be, as telling you how badly you screwed up. I will call you out on something should it warrant it, but I do so expecting you and others to do the same to me should I step out of line. Keep running with the green light my friend.

Spike

I think we are on the same page. I dont feel that blind subservience would be beneficial to the forum, or in some cases even in the military (but that is a separate issue). I do feel that I can learn much from you should I remove the friction and static that builds as hostilities mount.

I am just trying to add water to the sluice box, as it were.

 

[senojekips]

And you appear to be doing a good job of it. You'll get my support.

Never the less, I feel that our younger members should be given some leeway in view of their inexperience, so long as, like Sukio they learn something from it. These young adults are the Nation's future, let's try to get them off on the right foot, they have a long and perhaps arduous future ahead of them.

 

[A Can of Man]

All good points here.
I think in general we don't really have a problem. I don't think I really have to explain the exceptions. I think everyone knows what they are by now.
I just hope that because we disagree we do not get too emotional about the subject. After all, you can think of things this way:
1) You can think of this as a friendly sparring session. The other side brings up ideas and supporting evidences stating their case and you have plenty of time to do the same as well. This can better serve you in real life when someone asks you the same questions. You will be prepared to answer them with facts backing them up.
2) It opens your mind to what other people's take on the same situation is. If anything, it's interesting.
3) It helps self re-evaluation. Who knows? I might be wrong! And I certainly am not likely to tell myself straight off the bat.

I also like this site. Especially right now during my period of quasi employment/in between employment I find this a good place to share ideas.
I think everyone should take a chill pill so the mods can re-evaluate the situation with the political forum. Like I said, I think most of us are decent dudes. I don't think we need to start fighting about stuff. It's just the internet. Sheesh.

 

[bulldogg]

Spartacus, good on ya for a thread worthy of comment. Your heart and head are in the right place. You will go far.

 

[Yossarian]

True, thank you guys, but what of preventative measures?

Spartacus, good on ya for a thread worthy of comment. Your heart and head are in the right place. You will go far.

I think we should have word of the week or something here. Discuss it, and disregard, what nation, military service, or what side of the wire you may be on, just for one thread, something like this. Let people speak their minds, in a way of maybe staving off violent conversations. And losing members.

I have patrolled the Dark Side, looking at the various reasons why, and trying to learn from that, what not to do, and what to look out for. Sometimes, I would type replies to a topic, and read it, and realize...."If I really post this, ...... how would the reception be taken??" I have deleted entire replies to avoid this, 50% of the time I will delete a entire message, just to make sure I don't offend any one.

But, looking at the Dark side, I see some that have been here, longer than me. I will not name anyone, I am not trying to disgrace anyone, by God, if I am not careful I know fully well that I may end up there. I now see that as a lack of regard to other's, and a lack of some things, simple, like Respect, or honor for some one's monuments, or traditions, or just plane immaturity for the forum rules.

I think I am going to do more, in reminding new members of the consequences of their possible actions, what they might be. No as trying to be a want to be staff member, but more of a friendly gesture. Not harassment, but just to help some understand....

I am going to think hard on this, and maybe see what I can do in the real world....Maybe somehow use what some of you guys here have stated, Maybe I can do something pertaining to this that will help others keep their heads up? And out of trouble starting here. For like here, if you cross the line then you cross the line, then I have no sympathy for you. Even if that is myself...

But never the less it still makes me sigh to see the BANNED symbol over the profile name of someone....

 

[bulldogg]

Are you speaking of me and MMarsh? Or me and Phoenix? LOL I don't care if you name my name, I'm a big boy and can admit to stepping on it on occasion. Only difference is when I do it in here there's no need for medical personnel.

 

[Yossarian]

Are you speaking of me and MMarsh? Or me and Phoenix? LOL I don't care if you name my name, I'm a big boy and can admit to stepping on it on occasion. Only difference is when I do it in here there's no need for medical personnel.

I never had a problem with you or Phoenix before Mr. Bulldog. But, I admire you at not afraid to admit it.