Respect for the office??? - Page 2




 
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Respect for the office???
 
March 16th, 2006  
PJ24
 
 
Respect for the office???
Quote:
Respecting the rank (in this case office) does not mean you have to, or do, respect the man. It seems to me that being military you would have long since learned to differentiate between the two.
I could not have said it any better!
March 16th, 2006  
phoenix80
 
 
I wonder what Libs/commies/********s and leftists had to say about Clinton having sexual relation with his secretary back in the 1990s



Libs never cease to amaze us!

BTW, it is awsome how a great president like GWB makes people angry to a point where they are about to die.
March 16th, 2006  
mmarsh
 
 
MarinerRhodes

(Your first link didnt work, 2nd was ok)

No, a few *select* people were informed about it in Congress but there was no official declaration. Thats just the problem, Bush's own lawyers were concerned that this might be unconstitutional thats why it took a whistleblower for it to come to light. I have a real problem with Presidents who know something is illegal, or unconstitutional but who do it anyway.

You missed the point, the president has no offical power to kill impeachment process, but he does have measures to make sure that it never happens in the first place. For example he can block the use of a independent counsel investigation (Bush tried to do it 3 times, but was forced to relent because of public opinion). Another way is to make sure the impeachment charge never gets out of a congressional commitee (president must have cronies in congress for this to work).

You dont think the president didnt know about the torture, than why was Bush so adamently against McCain's anti-torture bill last year? Why did Cheney try and have Congress approve measures that could be described as "cruel, inhuman and degrading" a process that up to now we have cricized other countries of doing. Not only did they know about it, they most likely authorized it.

Phoenix

I'll answer that. A very poor personal decision, not the proper image of a US president. But outside his family, not a big deal. There was no outstanding damage to the country other than the hypocritical 'moral outrage' coming from the far right many of which it turned out later were guilty of exactly the same thing. Its not illegal for the president to have an affair and Clinton was far from the only president to do it. You could even open a bordello in Congress.
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Respect for the office???
March 16th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix80
I wonder what Libs/commies/********s and leftists had to say about Clinton having sexual relation with his secretary back in the 1990s



Libs never cease to amaze us!

BTW, it is awsome how a great president like GWB makes people angry to a point where they are about to die.
Well Phoenix, all I can say is that Clinton looked pretty stupid having to admit his adultry. I don't approve of it and I think many other libs/commies/democrats thought the same about it. But I am glad that we can always amaze you (ps is that Royal plural that you use or who do you mean by "we")
Finally, when talking about respect. I don't think that the capacity to annoy people is a measurement for greatness. I thought that great presidents are remembered by their other actions then that...... but that might just be my European point of view?!
March 16th, 2006  
Lord Londonderry
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missileer
I'll always respect the office, the holder, we've had better. But we've also had worse, that's why I don't get too worked up over who's in presently. One remark President Reagan made to a cabinet member sticks with me. When they were walking into the oval office, President Reagan put his coat back on and tightened his tie. The staff member said (para.) Mr. President, it's pretty hot and we will be the only ones in the meeting, you don't have to put your coat back on. President Reagan answered that he would never enter this (oval) office with anything less than the utmost respect. It's hard to make a judgement of giving or receiving respect without being there in their place, so I'll abstain on this issue and err on the side of giving respect to the office because the President is still elected by the people, thank God.
I agree with old M. George isn't all that bad. He made a good call with Afghanistan but should have shown more care with Iraq. He has signed over a huge amount of money to fight AIDS in poor nations. He has my respect as well as the office.
March 16th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: I couldn't have said it better.......


Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
.................
How can somebody respect the office of president when the current President doesn't even respect it himself?

For example, Bush has a extreme disregard for the office of President, he prefers to see that Presidency as a Absolute Monarchy (or even dictatorship). The President has no respect for Congress (wiretapping), no respect for the Constitution (torture, wiretapping, privacy) and not much respect for the American people. Worse, he feels is absolutely accountable to nobody.
I guess the above best describes the reason I no longer respect the Office of the President.

MM - I know you said that you still respect the office ... but ... the portion of your post I included describes my feelings exactly ...
March 16th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
MarinerRhodes

(Your first link didnt work, 2nd was ok)

No, a few *select* people were informed about it in Congress but there was no official declaration. Thats just the problem, Bush's own lawyers were concerned that this might be unconstitutional thats why it took a whistleblower for it to come to light. I have a real problem with Presidents who know something is illegal, or unconstitutional but who do it anyway.

You missed the point, the president has no offical power to kill impeachment process, but he does have measures to make sure that it never happens in the first place. For example he can block the use of a independent counsel investigation (Bush tried to do it 3 times, but was forced to relent because of public opinion). Another way is to make sure the impeachment charge never gets out of a congressional commitee (president must have cronies in congress for this to work).

You dont think the president didnt know about the torture, than why was Bush so adamently against McCain's anti-torture bill last year? Why did Cheney try and have Congress approve measures that could be described as "cruel, inhuman and degrading" a process that up to now we have cricized other countries of doing. Not only did they know about it, they most likely authorized it.

Phoenix

I'll answer that. A very poor personal decision, not the proper image of a US president. But outside his family, not a big deal. There was no outstanding damage to the country other than the hypocritical 'moral outrage' coming from the far right many of which it turned out later were guilty of exactly the same thing. Its not illegal for the president to have an affair and Clinton was far from the only president to do it. You could even open a bordello in Congress.
So who are these few select people that run congress to such an extent that a bill can pass through congress with no signatures but these few select people? (I think that makes sense). As for condoning unconstitutional or illegal acts etc. All one needs to do is look back in history at the various presidents prior to the current president. Seems to me there is a personal axe to grind here.

I did not miss your point on dismissing or blocking impeachment proceedings. There is no way possible that the president can block impeachiment procedures if there were enough someones adamant that it go through. The president is not above the law as has been demonstrated in the recent past. Clinton was brought up for impeachment because he commited perjury, not because of adultery. They didn't want to, or was unable to, levy enough evidence against the current president for an impeachment to work. I believe it was more that they didn't really want to, they were using it as a tactic to put him back in the negative limelight again.

What is this torture bill? Sorry I am a bit ignorant about alot of things. Mind providing a few links?
March 16th, 2006  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Well I have the utmost respect for the Office of the President, and absolutely none for man currently inside of it.

MarineRhodes brought up a point. He said he didnt like the fact that Clinton was a womanizer. (I would quickly point out that Kennedy, FDR, Ike, and many others had mistresses. And yet they are considered amongst the 'greats').

But back to my question. How can somebody respect the office of president when the current President doesnt even respect it himself?

For example, Bush has a extreme disregard for the office of President, he prefers to see that Presidency as a Absolute Monarchy (or even dictatorship). The President has no repect for Congress (wiretapping), no respect for the Constitution (torture, wiretapping, privacy) and not much respect for the American people. Worse, he feels is absolutely accountable to nobody.

Some people may dislike Clinton as a person. Some may dislike his political ideology. I dont agree but thats fine. But one thing we can say about Clinton was that he never held the presidency as being above everything else. If he had, there never would have been an impeachment trial.
Isn't that contradicting yourself?

That is what has been told to everyone by who? The media and other outlets? Unless you are a fly on the wall at every turn and conversation how can you say with any accuracy how or what the president feels.

It chaps my hide when someone says "this is how soandso feels". Just like any other person, maybe he feels he is doing the right thing. Even though some or all or most may not view it that way.

The parent lays down limitations rules etc you name it. The child may view it as totally unfair but then again the child does not have all the answers the parent does. (Poor example I know, but the best I can think of)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
I guess the above best describes the reason I no longer respect the Office of the President.

MM - I know you said that you still respect the office ... but ... the portion of your post I included describes my feelings exactly ...
Come on Chief. All he stated above was that he did not care for the man, just in different words. Again, being a military man you should know that there are different forms of respect, not all of them equate to the same thing.

There is no changing my mind that the office/title of The President Of The United States Of America should not be disrespected by anyone for any reason. That is like dropping the flag on the ground and letting people walk all over it is an OK thing to do. The office of president is a symbol/icon of America, the same as the flag. I find it hard to believe that you would allow anyone to disrespect the flag that so many have fought and died for. Yet you say you disrespect the very office pledged to lead the country if the need arises to defend that flag and all it represents.

On a personal note: I feel it is unreasonable to feel disprespect for a person that you have never met in person, or even know on a personal basis. All one can use to form an opinion about a person they have never met is by other peoples opinions and the twists and spins they put on their opinions. We all know what they say about opinions.
March 16th, 2006  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
I'll answer that. A very poor personal decision, not the proper image of a US president. But outside his family, not a big deal. There was no outstanding damage to the country other than the hypocritical 'moral outrage' coming from the far right many of which it turned out later were guilty of exactly the same thing. Its not illegal for the president to have an affair and Clinton was far from the only president to do it. You could even open a bordello in Congress.
BS again!

Clinton was as guilty as any Republican congressman who was CHARGED (not found guilty yet) in the past few months.

Where were you when he was begging Saudi royal family for money to build his library while USAF personnel were attack at Khobar tower in Saudi Arabia?

Yeah, right... some one was sucking his dick and OBL attacked the US interests world wide and he, for the purpose of saving the face and distract the public, launched useless attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan.

These are not damaging to the image of the president but liberating two countries, helping free many other countries, a strong economy at home and lots of other things are signs of weakness and damage??!



Way to go, libs!
March 17th, 2006  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: Bunk ...................


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinerhodes
There is no changing my mind that the office/title of The President Of The United States Of America should not be disrespected by anyone for any reason. That is like dropping the flag on the ground and letting people walk all over it is an OK thing to do. The office of president is a symbol/icon of America, the same as the flag. I find it hard to believe that you would allow anyone to disrespect the flag that so many have fought and died for. Yet you say you disrespect the very office pledged to lead the country if the need arises to defend that flag and all it represents.
You just went over the line I WILL NOT cross ... I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT EQUATE THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT WITH THE US FLAG.

MY FRIENDS AND FELLOW WARRIORS DID NOT DIE FOR AN OFFICE OR FOR A PRESIDENT ... THEY DIED FOR OUR COUNTRY ... THE FLAG REPRESENTS THE HONOR AND BLOOD THEY SPILLED IN EVERY CORNER OF THE WORLD AND ACROSS EVERY OCEAN/SEA (Red/White/Blue).

Don't you dare believe that I would standby while our flag was disrespected (or) desecrated... I didn't spend 20+ years of my life to allow that. I also believe that has earned me the RIGHT to decide that if the man holding the office doesn't appear to respect that office ...
then neither will I.

The office SHOULD be an ICON ... but .........