But I guess I have been proven wrong on the F88. I thought that you guys dropped it. My bad. And the Styer AUG is a cool looking rifle. I just doun't find it easy to use and reload. As a PDW, it would be a fine rifle. But as a battle rifle. I like the M4 better. My biggest seller is the M4 Style rifle. I've sold some Styer AUGs, CETMEs, H&K-91s, and FN FALs. But the reason why the M$ sells more is because it has no limit on how it can be modified. You can turn one into a Long Range shooter, CQC Weapon, PDW, Anti-Armour Rifle, and even a small game hunting rifle. The parts out on the market are sick. You can have it chambered in 7.62X39mm, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .22LR, 9mm Parabellum, .45ACP, .40S&W, .50 BMG, and .50 Beowulf just to name a few. I just don't see anything like that possible with the Styer Aug, AK series, FN FAL, CEMTE/G3, or the L85A1/A2. But if there is one rifle that I do love.

It's my Savage made Lee Enfield No 4 MKI in .303 British. That's one fine bolt action. Almost better than my Mausers.

http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=654

Just browsing and found the new development of the Steyr Aug. for different barrel lengths and setups have a look at the gallery. I

They made it more compatable with the current ideas of combat rifles. They made it a "flat top" rifle. It has a removeable crayy handle/ sight system and also piccatiny rails on the side and bottom of the rifle. It looks spaceage, but I'll still take the AR-15 system of rifles. But for those police departments and national defense forces that use the Steyr AUG rifle. Upgrade to that. It works and it's better.

I wonder who was first with the full handguard bullpup design---must be the best because everyone is copying it...the HEZI m1 conversion still hasn't come out, but I'd rather have the magal, which is available in scandinavia (and probably some other european countries) in a sporter version...it just needs a longer barrel like the m1 to extract properly....From the link, you can clearly see the Magal is an AK variant...a .30 carbine AK so to say, just as it's predecessors the micro Galil and the Galil.
Reports on the Tavor vs CAR are variable, but the basic tavor design looks way better...I wonder why we can't get the Israel weapons in Sporter versions here in the US? (Clinton's 96 bill banning import?)
.30 Carbine = .357 magnum, so's no joke at short range... those Korean reports were probably guys shooting at .223 or .308 ranges. That combloc 7.62x25 (90gr./1600fps) would have to be AP steel core to penetrate IIIA and even then I doubt it...

http://www.advancedcombat.com/civilian/sm1.html
http://www.gun-world.net/old/isreal/imi/magal/magal.htm
http://www.gun-world.net/old/isreal/imi/tavor/SFT.htm
http://www.gun-world.net/old/isreal/imi/tavor/index.htm

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapo...vor/Tavor.html

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

British SAS special forces use the M16

THey just bought a bunch of Canadian Diemaco C8s for special forces to use such as the SAS. Of course it is a copy of the M16, thats been slightly modified and can do full automatic. Its no surprise that they been using the M16 before now however since its only in the past couple of years that they fixed the L85A2 so now it has the reliability its always missed before. Heck I'm happy with any British gun that fires. Some reports have come out saying its more reliable than the M4.

Britain wanted to adopt to the ar15 back in the early 50s but the US forced all nato countries to go to a 7.62mm round and pretty much ended that.

The M4 main problem is its range. The loss of barrel range has really effected its ability so in the jungle and so on it be a good rifle, though long distance shooting in the desert and cities is really being effected. Its one of the advantages that a bullpup does have is that its alot shorter than a traditional rifle.

The XM8 is a waste of money. Its a G36 which has had more money spent on it to make it less reliable. I doubt it be adopted and seems more a saving of grace from the failed OICW programme.

Originally Posted by Limeyfellow

THey just bought a bunch of Canadian Diemaco C8s for special forces to use such as the SAS. Of course it is a copy of the M16, thats been slightly modified and can do full automatic. Its no surprise that they been using the M16 before now however since its only in the past couple of years that they fixed the L85A2 so now it has the reliability its always missed before. Heck I'm happy with any British gun that fires. Some reports have come out saying its more reliable than the M4.

Britain wanted to adopt to the ar15 back in the early 50s but the US forced all nato countries to go to a 7.62mm round and pretty much ended that.

The M4 main problem is its range. The loss of barrel range has really effected its ability so in the jungle and so on it be a good rifle, though long distance shooting in the desert and cities is really being effected. Its one of the advantages that a bullpup does have is that its alot shorter than a traditional rifle.

The XM8 is a waste of money. Its a G36 which has had more money spent on it to make it less reliable. I doubt it be adopted and seems more a saving of grace from the failed OICW programme.

Stoner made the AR-15 in the late 50's, and was in U.S. service from 1964-1968.

So what now chaps since the XM-8 failed to pass the Timex challenge?

Is it really possible to have ONE weapon that is fit for all missions? Looking at the array of weapons most of the modern militaries keep on hand for different missions I am disinclined to say it is possible.

What say ye?

Well, since we were considering buying German guns anyways, I'd say the HK416 makes the most sense. There would be no retraining, since it's externally identical to the pre-existing AR-15 series weapons, it solves almost all of the problems with the guns, and we'd only have to buy upper receivers since they can snap right on to Colt's components.

If the adoption of a new round is a prerequisite, we could so the same thing with the Barrett M468. Does the same thing as the HK416 and snaps onto Colt components, but it's chambered for 6.8 SPC and as a side benefit it's made in the USA. Again, no retraining required as it's externally very similar to the pre-existing AR-15 series weapons.

Ideally, I'd like to see F2000s chambered for 6.5mm Grendel, but that'd probably be expensive, if absolutely badass.

I think the reason why the soldiers of Europe and Australia can adapt so quickly to that system is because they've never owned and fired guns.

Europe, I dunno. But Australia, mate, there are a lot of shooters here. We may have tougher gun laws here. But that just stops any old nut from walking into a Big-W and walking out with a firearm. Many of us, especially soldiers, are prior shooters.

I spent a greater portion of my life prior to the army living in the country, and then working as a boundry rider on a station. All there is to do is go roo shooting.

5.56 or any others

Have any of you guys had any experiance with the French FAMAS Clarion.
Its the standard issue of the French Military.

Thoughts?