Originally Posted by Joker

Hope now you belive me that you need DT´s or more hits to take enemys down with the m855 ball??? And if you search on the internet for "Mk 262" you find more sources that will tell you the same!!

I guess it depends on where you hit them with the M855. The M855 is very inaccurate, but it does penetrate better than than the M193, which is more accurate than the M855. You're right that the Mk262 is the best of the issued rounds. I don't know if you've had a chance to test the LeMas Urban Warfare BMT round, but it's great and puts them all to shame.

Any idea how deep can it penetrate?

Originally Posted by zander_0633

Any idea how deep can it penetrate?

Yes, I have!!!! There are pictures in the net of the M855 and M193 in a gelatin block with details in cm.

Greetz Joker

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Joker

OOOOOhhhhhhhhh boy

Ever heard about the 77 grain round called Mk 262 Mod.0 and 1 ?????
No??? Than




I hope you belive me now!!! Or should i give you the Url´s??? Or better should i find a SF operator who was issued with this round so that you belive me???????

Look i am german, and all sources that i´ve read were in english, so i think it must be alot easyer for you to find such things than it is for me!!!!
Do you know how hard it is to find, read and understand such artikels in a foreign language??? I think no!!!!

And BTW, why you don´t belive me?
I´m soooooo of it!!!


Yeah you are right full auto with 7.62 is not the best choice. Thats why we get teached to make 3 round bursts when switch to full auto mode from basic training on. But never was a friend of bursts (except on MG3), i preferred single fire mode for distance! Easyer to hit and control!! You don´t have to "spray and pray" with G3 thats a waste of Ammo. Spray and pray is used with 9mm or 5.56. They are easyer to control because they don´t have so much recoil.

@ Doug97
Hope now you belive me that you need DT´s or more hits to take enemys down with the m855 ball??? And if you search on the internet for "Mk 262" you find more sources that will tell you the same!!

Greetings Joker

Yes I have heard of the Mk. 262.

I understand you argument, but the whole problem is NATO. If the US uses Mk.262 or 6.8 SPC then NATO must make 6.8 SPC standard ammo and then every country in NATO must tailor their weapons to 6.8 SPC.

What needs to be found is an ammo that is comptable with the current upper's, something like the .454 Alaskian, if fires .454 Casull and .45 ACP.

This way you can use M885 or the other choice.

Originally Posted by Cadet Seaman

US SF are issed nothing that regular soldiers aren't, they just have the ability to use any weapon they choice too.

Originally Posted by Cadet Seaman

Yes I have heard of the Mk. 262.

I understand you argument, but the whole problem is NATO. If the US uses Mk.262 or 6.8 SPC then NATO must make 6.8 SPC standard ammo and then every country in NATO must tailor their weapons to 6.8 SPC.

What needs to be found is an ammo that is comptable with the current upper's, something like the .454 Alaskian, if fires .454 Casull and .45 ACP.

This way you can use M885 or the other choice.

The Point is: You said SF don´t have other ammo than normal troops and that is wrong. They have and thats a fact!!!
And if you know the Mk 262 why you don´t know that it is used by SF units???
And why is NATO the problem? The Mk 262 is a normal 5,56X45 with only a heavyer bullet, you can shoot it from any rifle with this caliber without any changes!!!!!!
And If US going to 6,8 SPC why the rest of the NATO has to adopt it?? I think that the 6,8 SPC will be a good round and hopfully germany will adop this round too but why it´s a must for all NATO members???

Joker

And If US going to 6,8 SPC why the rest of the NATO has to adopt it?? I think that the 6,8 SPC will be a good round and hopfully germany will adop this round too but why it´s a must for all NATO members???

Joker

It isnt a must, since both 5.56 and 7.62 still is NATO-standard...

Anyway, while the 6.8 is a lot better than 5.56, it doesnt mean it is the best round available.

The 6.5 Grendel is capable of replacing both 5.56 and 7.62, thereby greatly simplifying logistics...

Originally Posted by dobrodan

The 6.5 Grendel is capable of replacing both 5.56 and 7.62, thereby greatly simplifying logistics...

Yeah yeah, and then people will start whining that it doesn't have enough 'knockdown power' for use in medium machine guns.

That would only be partially true, usually in engagements shorter than 500m...

But the solution to that would be to field a heavier MMG-round... The .338 LM would IMO be a very capable round in that role, and in long-range sniping, as it is supposed to be more accurate than .50BMG, and have a flatter trajectory.

With .338 LM in the MMG-role, it could be possible to upgrade the HMG calibre from 12.7mm to 15.5mm, although that would be a very expensive move.

Originally Posted by dobrodan

Anyway, while the 6.8 is a lot better than 5.56, it doesnt mean it is the best round available.

Originally Posted by dobrodan

The 6.5 Grendel is capable of replacing both 5.56 and 7.62, thereby greatly simplifying logistics...

Just to weigh in from my perspective:

The 6.8 and 6.5 aren't really practical. One, they're too unique for Special Operations. It's like leaving a big "We Wuz Here" sign on everything. And two, what happens when you're cut off from US supplies and need to borrow from your Aussie brothers? Uh oh, can't because they are using a different round.

Just because it's a better round, doesn't mean it's the best round. Bigger ain't always better, boys.

I don't really hear a lot of shooters complaining seriously about the 5.56 knockdown power. Most guys know what it is capable of and deal with it. I know I do. It it the best thing out there? Nah. But it works great for us and other guys in special operations and I've personally never had a problem with it doing what I need it to do, and that's puttin' the bad guys on the ground. Biggest combat failure with the 5.56 is it not actually hitting the target.

I'm not a ballistics expert and I don't pretend to be, but I am a shooter and I've used the 5.56 with great success. As somebody that uses it for its intented purpose I'm happy with it. And frankly, I don't want to have to hump any more crap than I have to and with bigger rounds come heavier weight.