Replacing the 5.56mm with a more powerful round?
Spartacus
Active member
In the current theater and likely future operations, 13th is very right. Range beyond 250-300 meters is not nearly as important as hitting power in closer ranges.
However, what Sherman said is very true too. The 5.56 tungsten core ball round does tend to go right through the human body. It also tends to richocet off walls and other obstacles, which can be good but also can be bad. Its detriment can come from both the obvious reasons and the fact that it wont allow you to penetrate thin cover. Thats why some call for a move to a larger round with the penetration of 7.62 while maintaining the range and nearly the velocity of 5.56, thus the 6.8 was concieved.
However, what Sherman said is very true too. The 5.56 tungsten core ball round does tend to go right through the human body. It also tends to richocet off walls and other obstacles, which can be good but also can be bad. Its detriment can come from both the obvious reasons and the fact that it wont allow you to penetrate thin cover. Thats why some call for a move to a larger round with the penetration of 7.62 while maintaining the range and nearly the velocity of 5.56, thus the 6.8 was concieved.
sven hassell
Active member
This is another monster round,you wouldnt like to get hit with!That weapon would probably end up weighing 30 lbs and carrying around the ammo for that thing would also be heavy as hell thus making it simply not practical to carry into combat. But it may interest you to know that there are 20mm and legend has it 25mm anti-material rifles out their.
Anzio 20mm Anti-Material Rifle
20mm compared in size to other rounds
RT-20 in firing position. Anyone can wonder if the backblast from the reactive counter-recoil tube (above the barrel) won't tear off the shooters' backpack at the moment of fire...
cartridge size comparision: .50 BMG (top) and the 20x110mm Hispano (below)
[SIZE=-1]image courtesy: A.Williams, http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk [/SIZE]
Caliber: 20x110mm Hispano
ObjSRgtLw
Active member
I'm happy we still have the MG3 with 7,62mm, if you hear that thing you just want to run... and its still based on the original MG 42, it was only slowed down a bit "NATO-brake"!, i can understand why the german Machine Gun was so feared in ww2.
There are many folks who miss the G3 which had the same rounds.
For modern combat 5.56 is ok but you need sth with a little more sound to get you covering fire
hmmm cover... well there you see more effect with 7,62 rounds :m16:
There are many folks who miss the G3 which had the same rounds.
For modern combat 5.56 is ok but you need sth with a little more sound to get you covering fire
hmmm cover... well there you see more effect with 7,62 rounds :m16:
senojekips
Active member
This sounds very much like a replay if the misinformation that was prevalent when the 5.56 was first introduced in the Vietnam era. Stories of keyholing, and hitting a man in the foot, shattering every bone in the leg. All pretty much disproved as a mix of manufacturers hype and users over enthusiasm.
I've never shot a man (that I know of), however I have used thousands of rounds of military ammo hunting and although the 5.56 is an excellent round of it's calibre, I've never seen anything that would support any of the stories.
Yep, if you ricochet one off the ground it may well keyhole, tumble or corkscrew, but a clean hit just goes straight through like any other round. The only thing that will deflect their path being bone and often, if struck reasonably squarely that has little effect either.
I think perhaps that he is refering to 5.56 ammo of "British manufacture". Here in Australia we use the SS109 (unless it has changed again) US specification, but manufactured in Australia.
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5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
All of the above loads are far better then the standard M193 Ball (Older 55Gr US Service Load) and the M855 (Current NATO SS109 Service Load).
All of the loads listed above are expanding loads ranging between the 40gr-75gr load. All have a excellent record against both the two and four legged variety of game. All are used by Police and Sportsmen. And all are available currently in the US Market.
The main issue is not the caliber of the cartridge put the projectile. The fact that we're using a 62Gr Steel Core Load that was designed to defeat Soviet Armour. We are fighting an enemy that wears only cloth and is doped up on drugs to get them through the fight. What we need is what hunters have been using for a long time.
The same loads that can drop a 200lbs Deer can easily drop a 200lbs man.
In the end... since I'm back to being a civilian. The rules of war no longer apply to me. All of my defensive firearms are loaded with the best cartridge available for it. So for my AR-15s it's either Remington or Winchester 55Gr Soft Tip Lead Load. For my sidearms it's the Winchester Ranger SXT JHP Load. For my older calibers like .45 Colt and .38 S&W. Standard Semi-Wad Cutter Lead Loads.
All of the loads listed above are expanding loads ranging between the 40gr-75gr load. All have a excellent record against both the two and four legged variety of game. All are used by Police and Sportsmen. And all are available currently in the US Market.
The main issue is not the caliber of the cartridge put the projectile. The fact that we're using a 62Gr Steel Core Load that was designed to defeat Soviet Armour. We are fighting an enemy that wears only cloth and is doped up on drugs to get them through the fight. What we need is what hunters have been using for a long time.
The same loads that can drop a 200lbs Deer can easily drop a 200lbs man.
In the end... since I'm back to being a civilian. The rules of war no longer apply to me. All of my defensive firearms are loaded with the best cartridge available for it. So for my AR-15s it's either Remington or Winchester 55Gr Soft Tip Lead Load. For my sidearms it's the Winchester Ranger SXT JHP Load. For my older calibers like .45 Colt and .38 S&W. Standard Semi-Wad Cutter Lead Loads.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Beware of lead poisoning!
All of your firearms are loaded with the bullets?