Remains of Polish soldiers/prisoners




 
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3 Weeks Ago  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 

Topic: Remains of Polish soldiers/prisoners


Polish archeologists have discovered the remains of Polish soldiers/prisoners killed by NKVD or SMERSH.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...ecret%20police.
3 Weeks Ago  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Its not only the NAZI's and Japanese needed to be tried for war crimes, the Soviets should have been tried as well.

I often wish the western allies had a truce with Germany and Finland until they sorted out the soviets, there would have been far less problems around the world post WW2
2 Weeks Ago  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
Its not only the NAZI's and Japanese needed to be tried for war crimes, the Soviets should have been tried as well.

I often wish the western allies had a truce with Germany and Finland until they sorted out the soviets, there would have been far less problems around the world post WW2
I am not suggesting Stalin was any less dangerous than Hitler but I am not sure giving Germany another couple of years to get its act together and taking out the one country that stopped them would have been a good idea.

An intact Germany in 1943 without the losses from the Russian front facing off against a weakened Britain and France (assuming they could have defeated the Soviets) in the west would have been catastrophic I think.
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2 Weeks Ago  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I am not suggesting Stalin was any less dangerous than Hitler but I am not sure giving Germany another couple of years to get its act together and taking out the one country that stopped them would have been a good idea.

An intact Germany in 1943 without the losses from the Russian front facing off against a weakened Britain and France (assuming they could have defeated the Soviets) in the west would have been catastrophic I think.
Goes in the same category as "the Germans should have gone east with "The Bulge" forces", focuses on what would have been best for The West during the Cold War. Germany with its scientific achievements that just didn't have enough time to come together would have been bad given more time.
2 Weeks Ago  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George
Goes in the same category as "the Germans should have gone east with "The Bulge" forces", focuses on what would have been best for The West during the Cold War. Germany with its scientific achievements that just didn't have enough time to come together would have been bad given more time.
I have often wondered how operation unthinkable would have turned out however this probably isn't the thread for it either.
It also intrigues me as to how Britain and France would have reacted had Russia invaded Poland before Germany.

In this case I am not sure people should be surprised about Russian actions given that we knew about the killing of Polish prisoners back as far as 1943 with the Katyn forest massacre.
2 Weeks Ago  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I have often wondered how operation unthinkable would have turned out however this probably isn't the thread for it either.
It also intrigues me as to how Britain and France would have reacted had Russia invaded Poland before Germany.

In this case I am not sure people should be surprised about Russian actions given that we knew about the killing of Polish prisoners back as far as 1943 with the Katyn forest massacre.
We are usually not picky with staying on topic. I think if the operation unthinkable had been launched, the Western allies had suffered a defeat. The Russians had superiority in armor, infantry, artillery, and maybe in the mind as well. The West had a superiority in the air.

I don't think the English and the French had been able to do anything about it if the Russians attacked Poland before the Germans. The English would be in an ideological dilemma, I'm not sure if the French had been in the same ideological dilemma.
2 Weeks Ago  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
We are usually not picky with staying on topic. I think if the operation unthinkable had been launched, the Western allies had suffered a defeat. The Russians had superiority in armor, infantry, artillery, and maybe in the mind as well. The West had a superiority in the air.

I don't think the English and the French had been able to do anything about it if the Russians attacked Poland before the Germans. The English would be in an ideological dilemma, I'm not sure if the French had been in the same ideological dilemma.
Not sure I agree.
Yes the Russians had tank and artillery superiority but air superiority was always going to be in the west favour as was logistics and WW2 was a text book example of control the skies, control the battlefield.
Add to this the reformation of a German army and industry and I doubt the Russians really had much going for them, essentially I find myself in agreement with Patton.
2 Weeks Ago  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Not sure I agree.
Yes the Russians had tank and artillery superiority but air superiority was always going to be in the west favour as was logistics and WW2 was a text book example of control the skies, control the battlefield.
Add to this the reformation of a German army and industry and I doubt the Russians really had much going for them, essentially I find myself in agreement with Patton.
Good point, I wasn't thinking about the Germans.
2 Weeks Ago  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Good point, I wasn't thinking about the Germans.
Patton's primary argument seemed to be that Russian infantry and artillery were a match for the west but new western tanks such as the M26 Pershing were capable of going head to head with Russian heavies and western air power was dominant.

Logistically Russia had issues as they would be retreating over a devastated countryside and did not have a particularly sophisticated supply system as essentially they lived off the land.

Operation Unthinkable also factored in the Polish divisions, 10 reformed German divisions and Finnish forces.
One further addition to the allied arsenal was the development of atomic weaponry.
2 Weeks Ago  
BritinAfrica
 
 
The British planned to start World War III by invading Russia with the German army
With the dust still settling after the end of World War II in Europe, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill set his sights on the next threat to Western Democracy: the Soviet Union.
Churchill was a dedicated anti-Communist. Even before the war’s end, the British PM expanded his anti-Communist rhetoric. He would later employ the same anti-Stalinist zeal in his public comments to people living inside the Iron Curtain (a term he coined in a 1946 speech).

The Prime Minister’s 1946 speech argued the Soviets were determined to expand their influence across Europe and into Asia – a conclusion U.S. President Harry S. Truman also held.

So it makes sense that Churchill would ask his War Cabinet to draw up a plan that would “impose upon Russia the will of the United States and the British Empire,” as Rakesh Krishnan Simha of Russia & India Report writes.

This essentially meant Churchill was ready to start World War III.

Dubbed “Unthinkable” by Britain’s General Staff, the plan called for American, British, and Polish troops — as well as soldiers from the newly-defeated Wehrmacht — to completely surprise the Soviets from the Baltic to the Mediterranean.

The differential in land forces between the West and the Soviet Union could not be offset by the air and naval superiority the Americans and British would have. The West just could not muster the manpower to match the Soviets. Churchill’s Defence Minister warned him that a quick victory would be “beyond our power” and that they should be prepared for “a long, protracted war against heavy odds.”

Manpower wasn’t the only issue. The Defence Minister’s plans relied on American allies — and the Pacific War was still in full swing. The United States was preparing for the invasion of mainland Japan. The rest of Europe was in tatters and could not assist the British in their efforts.

Then there was the question of how to defend the British Isles. The Russians could not mount the same submarine threat the Germans did during World War II. And the British Defence Ministry concluded the Russians certainly couldn’t launch an invasion from the sea.

But rocket attacks were a different challenge altogether. British planners were well aware of this threat and included it in the report to Churchill. Once the Russians began making these weapons en masse, the British expected a “far heavier scale of attack than the Germans were able to develop and no way of effectively reducing this.”

“You think destruction is your ally? You merely adopted destruction. Russians were born in it, molded by it.”

With Russian superiority in mainland Europe, the hypothetical rocket-based devastation of the British Isles in the scenario, and the insistence of President Truman that the United States would not participate, Churchill shelved the idea forever.
 


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