Religion and war

Bacara

Bacara

Active member
I'm listening to a song called "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" by Serj Tankian of System of a Down. i listen to alternative and metal, but anyways the song in my bielf, is about of religion has been used as excuse for war, which is very true, what do guys think of it?
heres the url
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZoPbh0uLaY
 
Just about anything is used as an excuse for war but ultimately it comes down to:
1) Resources
2) Power
In no particular order.
If you really look at it, religion probably doesn't play a big role except to trick the regular folks into getting involved. Basically "Risk your ass so I can buy my twelve sons a grand piano" doesn't quite have the right ring to it.
 
Are you kidding me? The guys in the Middle East are using it to great effect. But ultimately it's about either resources or power. Many people think that power is a means to an end but really it often serves as the end itself.
Look at a lot of career politicians. Power is their currency.
 
You got to stop thinking simply from a Western perspective. It's like one of those "It's not European, it doesn't count" bullsh*t. Like people thinking China is "a new power." It's not a new power. It's an ancient power. They're just coming back to the point where they used to be except now at a global scale (since that's the scale in which things are done now).
It's like how a sinking ship in the Philippines killing over five hundred people can be smaller news than a minor train wreck in Germany kills barely five.
 
Politicians use religion as an excuse for war or other social divisiveness because so many believers are convinced that it is God's (or Allah's) will, and they suck the fools in every time.

If God were real, do you honestly think that s/he would stand for all this crap being done in his/her name? There'd be dead politicians littering the halls of power ten feet deep.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
You got to stop thinking simply from a Western perspective. It's like one of those "It's not European, it doesn't count" bullsh*t. Like people thinking China is "a new power." It's not a new power. It's an ancient power. They're just coming back to the point where they used to be except now at a global scale (since that's the scale in which things are done now).
It's like how a sinking ship in the Philippines killing over five hundred people can be smaller news than a minor train wreck in Germany kills barely five.
Click to expand...
How many developed countries actually use religion as a major weapon these days? It's not JUST the US.
 
Rob Henderson said:
How many developed countries actually use religion as a major weapon these days? It's not JUST the US.
Click to expand...

Where the hell did this come from?


Anyways on what Spike said, those calls for violence in the name of religion is a pile. Truth is I don't see why it's so hard to figure out that a message of love, tolerance, forgiveness couldn't ever translate to slaughter the sh*t out of people who have different interpretations of what's on line 5, paragraph 3 on page 237.
It's like the damned Christians over here who piss me off without end. They're talking about uniting the world under one belief, but their Church can barely stay together after membership reaches 200 or more. Not to mention, they argue, threaten, say a lot of mean sh*t because some other guy thinks of something in essentially the SAME belief system slightly differently. It's like saying foul sh*t about someone who wears the same shoes as you do, but has a slightly different interpretation as to how the comfort factor works.
Not to mention they talk about all the nitpicky small crap when they've obviously forgotten the part about love, forgiveness, tolerance and basically outright not being a f*cking ass.
Oh yeah "you're great grandmother's in hell because she never knew what Christianity was." Go suck on the lower part of a sh*t stained made-in-Taiwan Crucifix loaded with lead.
I believe in the main message and all and that it had to have come from some place (though not overnight... but in pieces and over time) but what pisses me off is the sheer amount of f*cktards who use it for all these bad purposes and for their own selfish ends and expect me to not see it.
</rant>
 
No-one could argue with that Redneck, I reckon.

Anyways up - to answer the on-topic, here's the full story. I remember the song as a very widely sung American patriotic offering of WW11. All to do with a certain matter called Pearl Harbour! All us kids sang it with gusto. I'm singing it now.

(I haven't been able to listen to the song posted, somehow I can't receive it. But I know the WW11 version, a real motivator.)





Read this now, a good answer to a good question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praise_the_Lord_and_Pass_the_Ammunition
 
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More people have been killed in the name of the lord than anything else.

Religion and war are almost always connected, and in most cases the wars go against religious teachings.
 
Only because religion is the oldest form of ideology that human beings have.
If democracy and communism were around from the very start, there wouldn't be that big of a difference. Considering that most of the ideologies we put up against religion are barely a hundred years old at best, it's sort of a lopsided argument.
What I am pretty sure about is that the death rate of things related to Communism and Fascism sure as heck kick the crap out of the death rate involving religion if for the only reason that killing has become a lot more efficient than it has ever been before.
Religion gets a lot of sh*t for things that ideologies in general do. It looks the worst because it's simply been around for a longer time and has had a heck of a lot more opportunities to be misused and abused etc., and if you look at it, God has VERY LITTLE to do with any of it, rather it's an individual using it to advance his own power base.
See religion at work without the killing, black mailing etc., and you'll see the many good sides of it too. But then again, that never makes the news. It's just like anything else... an ATC for example. Land 2,000,000 planes without incident and you don't get jack sh*t. Crash one and it's your ass. Also like the military. But I guess we've discussed that one to death already several times over.
 
Just a reminder that man doesn't necessarily need the excuse of religion to be horrific. Nature, red in tooth and claw.



Stalin's mass murders were 'entirely rational' says new Russian textbook praising tyrant

By Will Stewart
Last updated at 1:10 AM on 03rd September 2008


Ruthless: 20 million died as a result of Stalin's actions
Stalin acted ‘entirely rationally’ in executing and imprisoning millions of people in the Gulags, a controversial new Russian teaching manual claims.
Fifty-five years after the Soviet dictator died, the latest guide for teachers to promote patriotism among the Russian young said he did what he did to ensure the country’s modernisation.
The manual, titled A History of Russia, 1900-1945, will form the basis of a new state-approved text book for use in schools next year.
It seems to follow an attempt backed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to re-evaluate Stalin’s record in a more positive light.
Critics have taken exception, however, to numerous excerpts, which they say are essentially attempts to whitewash Stalin’s crimes.
In the West, it has been widely accepted that in the 1920s millions were shot, exiled to Siberia, or died of starvation after their land, homes and meagre possessions, were taken to fulfil Stalin’s vision of massive ‘factory farms.’
In the 1930s millions more whom he considered or suspected a threat to the USSR were executed or exiled to Gulag labour camps in remote areas of Siberia or Central Asia, where many also died of disease, malnutrition and exposure.
Historians believe up to 20 million people perished as a result of his actions - more than the six million killed during Hitler’s genocide of the Jews.
Worked to death: Although millions perished in Siberian Labour camps like this one, the textbook says that Stalin only did this to push through modernisation
Now the new teaching manual is attempting to tell a generation of Russian schoolchildren that Stalin acted rationally.
One of the authors, Anatoly Utkin, is keener to promote another statistic about Stalin, stressing some 10,000 books in his library had his personal jottings and marks in them.
‘Can you tell me of any other leader, an American president, for example, who read 10,000 books?’
 
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the_13th_redneck said:
Where the hell did this come from?
Click to expand...
You said I was thinking from a Western perspective that religion isn't used as a major weapon much any more... I promise it's not just the United States. The war in Iraq (for our perspective) is not a religious war. And I would wager that almost nobody outside the extreme jihadist Muslims thinks it is.
 
Some religions abet war, as it seems for the Islam. I learned at the University that Religion (Islam as example here) is to be seperated from terrorism, war and aggression but the Documentation "What the West needs to know" kinda gave me another light on things... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjq5Vi9Gc68)

don't know if i hit the point here, originally this was about music?... :D
 
Rob Henderson said:
You said I was thinking from a Western perspective that religion isn't used as a major weapon much any more... I promise it's not just the United States. The war in Iraq (for our perspective) is not a religious war. And I would wager that almost nobody outside the extreme jihadist Muslims thinks it is.
Click to expand...

You have to see it from their perspective to truly know what it is you're doing.

ObjSRgtLw said:
Some religions abet war, as it seems for the Islam. I learned at the University that Religion (Islam as example here) is to be seperated from terrorism, war and aggression but the Documentation "What the West needs to know" kinda gave me another light on things... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjq5Vi9Gc68)

don't know if i hit the point here, originally this was about music?... :D
Click to expand...

The documentary has a point but the majority of Muslims I've known don't really care about the calls to violence like that. They just want to get to work, earn some money, send their kids to school etc.
 
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Yeah sure, but the point is that the Islam abets Aggression and war, any Muslim who lives a normal life has to be very distant to its religion (referring to what is said in the docu)
 
well thats what the bibel makes you believe :)
no just kidding- but look into the old testament... lot of violence there- not Jesus right... :peace:
 
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