Marinerhodes
Active member
Exactly what I meant to say!
mmarsh I will reply later when I have more time. Off to PT now.
Rangel: An Attack On Bush Is An Attack On All Americans
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Exactly what I meant to say!
mmarsh I will reply later when I have more time. Off to PT now.
ASTRALdragon
Active member
One of my all-time favorite sayings right below "Expect the worst, hope for the best."
Pfff, what a nonsense! We have a guy here influencing the whole world with his idea's and only you have something to say about him??? I think not dear friends.... he or one of his lackeys come to our house insulting us (Remember the " just the old Europe, we only need the new Europe-remark as one of many?) but we have no right to return the favour in kind. What a condesending, lacking self-reflection, childish thing to ask and plain stupid to expect this. An attitude like this could help explain the growing league of nations the Chavez gatheres....
Donkey
Active member
Chavez is gathering support because of Citgo... (oil in other words) He has money and everybody knows money talks.....
Putin is all buddy because he is buying a crap load of fighter aircraft and helos from Russia...
His audience he is gathering is nothing but a bunch of thugs that would sell Chavez out as quickly as he would them...
Putin is all buddy because he is buying a crap load of fighter aircraft and helos from Russia...
His audience he is gathering is nothing but a bunch of thugs that would sell Chavez out as quickly as he would them...
DTop
Active member
It may be difficult to understand for you but, there is a big difference in the way many Americans view things said about American leaders in some other country by that country's leaders and something that is said at the UN, an organizaion supposedly dedicated to global peace and hosted by America, in America.
BTW, there is no need to call Americans childish, lacking self-reflection, or plain stupid is there?
IMHO, Chavez hardly has "a growing league of nations" sucking up to him. He's nothing more than a loud mouthed thug that any freedom loving person in the world should have no use for. He's obviously merely trying to prove his bravado with a macho spiel that serves only to stroke his own ego by creating the self delusion that he can stand up to the big bad USA. He's strutting around like a little Bantam rooster. Oh poor Chavez, Venezuela is so persecuted by the US. C'mon this guy's ludicrous at best and his act has quickly become quite tiresome.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Ted needs to realise that the UN has never turned away a single country that has negative views of America and the only 'league of nations' that Chavez is playing to, are these same bozo's that just absolutely eat up anything that is 'anti-American'.
Evidently, Ted has some of these same beliefs (his comment reflects this).
Evidently, Ted has some of these same beliefs (his comment reflects this).
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Rob Henderson
Banned
Dont say stuff like that...Some country might be liable to take you up on your offer...You got a problem with the USA well then make your country better and more powerful then...Dont just sit there and talk get something done!
I mean the USA started from scratch so surely if we can you can
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Well I guess I will back the over all point Ted was making I dont give a rats arse about american domestic policy but when your leaders make decisions that affect me and my country I believe I have the right to voice an opinion.
As for Chavez at best I find him amusing at worst he is the president of some tinpot latin american country but he is doing what it takes to stay in power and if that means poking his tongue out at the USA then he is going to do it, I have no doubt that if GWB thought he could stay in power by attacking a country he wouldnt hesitate either.
mmarsh
Active member
Monty's comments are a common thought outside the U.S
As an American living abroad I have witnessed that my government doesnt always calculate (intentionally and by oversight) the 'ripple effects' that some of its policies have around the world, and that Americans back at home are largely unaware or indifferent about these side effects. Iraq is case in point. The Iraq war has created much agitation in the Europe amongst the muslim minorites, and its the European governments who then have to deal with the unrest at home, despite the fact most of them were opposed or at least not involved in Iraq.
This frustration at American Foreign policy is understandable.
Rob Henderson
Banned
Unfortunately, we haven't figured out that these comments are a common thought, therfore, we are still nice to the rest of the world when we should just let it sink under a tsunami, or earthquake, or terrorist attack. Wait till WE are in danger, then attack.But no, we are always there with aid, support, supplies, etc. You're welcome is what I say to those folks.
DTop
Active member
You missed the point MonyB. I don't think that most Americans care much what anyone says in their own country. They can say whatever they like, they can voice their own opinion no matter how stupid we think may be, even if we did listen to it. It's the venue, it's the UN, it's in our country not his, not yours, it's ours. Chavez can cackle and crow all he wants in any country he wants, just don't do it here and expect that Americans are going to sit by in silence, it's not going to happen. So, go ahead say what you want about whomever you want, I don't think many Americans would care what you say. You're not the leader of any country that I am aware of are you?
Americans are quick to criticize our own. After all they are ours and we can put them into office or we can remove or replace them. In fact if someone like Chavez isn't happy with our President, then perhaps he's doing something right. Frankly, I'd be highly suspicious if the likes of Castro and Chavez were happy with one of our Presidents.
Rob Henderson
Banned
Sounds about right.
Donkey
Active member
Yeah well as you can see we do care
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15030988/
7-Eleven has dropped Citgo as their gas supplier partialy because of those comments...
Albeit this could be also partialy a damn good marketing plan then again who knows had Chavez not said what he did perhaps 7-eleven would have still used them for some of their supply.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15030988/
7-Eleven has dropped Citgo as their gas supplier partialy because of those comments...
Albeit this could be also partialy a damn good marketing plan then again who knows had Chavez not said what he did perhaps 7-eleven would have still used them for some of their supply.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Once again I think you should check out the UN and its systems...
Effectively the UN has much the same immunities as an embassy which more or less indicates that while it is based in the US it is not under US jurisdiction.
Heres a short version for you...
http://www.un.int/usa/host_p-i.htm
What you will notice is that Chavez like Castro, Bush and Blair have every right to say what they like within the confines of the UN, you and I dont have to like it but I guess in the same context that you dont care about my opinion the UN and its representitives dont really care about yours either so I guess we are even.
What does concern me is the number of people who seem rabidly anti-UN without ever knowing what it is they are opposed to.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Agreed but then any country anywhere can do the same with any embassy based in their country but yes I did mean it in terms of "International Territory".
I just tend to be constantly amazed at the number of people who take shots at aspects of the UN without actually knowing its function or capabilities I would almost swear half the people on this board see it as some "world government" with powers and a military.
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DTop
Active member
I know where th UN is. I grew up within spitting distance of it and regardless of its status, it is still physically located within the United States of America. Here's a map for you
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=united+nations&csz=new+york,+ny&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=
The right to speak there is not the issue. I'm glad we agree it's the right to disagree with what was said that we were talking about.
While there may be many people who oppose the UN without being totally informed, it's the same with people who oppose anything including global warming claims, ownership of firearms, and our present administration. However when it comes to what Chavez said, we all know exactly what was said. His comments were inappropriate, self-serving, and unbecoming. Of course that's my opinion and I know you don't care. But if you want to defend that kind of behavior then... good luck to you.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Thanks dont need a map though I have been there at least half a dozen times, still think it should have stayed on the west coast though.
Its not a matter of people not being "totally informed" as much as it is people having absolutely no idea. As far as global warming goes well thats a world issue and I really dont care firearms ownership or your present administration as long as they stay out my little chunk of the world.
Dude the guy is a politician, inappropriate, self-serving, and unbecoming is pretty much their international job description.
Its not a matter of defending his behavior as it is defending his right to say things in an international forum even if I dont agree with him hell I will even defend Bush's right to respond in a suitable forum, the fact that it happened on what is deemed international territory makes all the difference.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Monty & others
I didn't see anyone directly address a point I made ...
Do you see the difference? I's NOT a case of being opposed to his beliefs (he has a right to them), it IS a case of being opposed to where he decided to launch his tirade. The opening of the UN Council was NOT the place to launch a tirade ... if Chavez had stated that policy X was having a decided bad affect against Vensuela and needed to be discussed before the UN, then I would have applauded his decision and supported him.
As it is, he has demonstrated why certain countries SHOULD have been denied UN membership.
I didn't see anyone directly address a point I made ...
Chief Bones said:
Do you see the difference? I's NOT a case of being opposed to his beliefs (he has a right to them), it IS a case of being opposed to where he decided to launch his tirade. The opening of the UN Council was NOT the place to launch a tirade ... if Chavez had stated that policy X was having a decided bad affect against Vensuela and needed to be discussed before the UN, then I would have applauded his decision and supported him.
As it is, he has demonstrated why certain countries SHOULD have been denied UN membership.
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