Question - Page 2




 
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December 24th, 2011  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper1854
Have you seen the series "Suns of Guns"? Its about a Louisiana gun smiths, Red Jacket.
They did a commision for their local Sherrif's SWAT team.
They took reproduction Thompsons, which were single shot versions.
They converted them to auto fire, changed the barrels to heavier ones and these things were capable of emptying a 30 round mag in seconds!
They tried a one hundred round drum mag but it was too heavy (26lbs) and bulky for SWAT use.
When they demonstrated the conversion to the SWAT team, these guys were like kids in a toy shop!

I watched that episode, it started me to think about the Tommy. It is a funny TV-show. sometimes it seems the girl is the only adult working there. Boys and toys, huh?
December 24th, 2011  
Trooper1854
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider
I watched that episode, it started me to think about the Tommy. It is a funny TV-show. sometimes it seems the girl is the only adult working there. Boys and toys, huh?
I was talking with one of our local Armed Response officers, who also happened to be one of their instructors.
He said he found the women officers in the unit were more proffesional than their male counterparts in training exercises especially.
The women saw the firearms they use more as tools to do a job, whereas the men behave like children sometimes, except when on a real armed incident when they are all extremely proffesional individuals.
December 24th, 2011  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper1854
I was talking with one of our local Armed Response officers, who also happened to be one of their instructors.
He said he found the women officers in the unit were more proffesional than their male counterparts in training exercises especially.
The women saw the firearms they use more as tools to do a job, whereas the men behave like children sometimes, except when on a real armed incident when they are all extremely proffesional individuals.
I do not doubt their proffesionalism during the real thing, regardless gender. I liked when " The Sons of Guns" placed a MAG 58 in the chopper, is it in use still? Or has it been replaced by the "Minimi aka SAW"? We had the MAG 58 when I was in the Army, a long time ago.

Merry Christmas,

G
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December 24th, 2011  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper1854
I was talking with one of our local Armed Response officers, who also happened to be one of their instructors.
He said he found the women officers in the unit were more proffesional than their male counterparts in training exercises especially.
The women saw the firearms they use more as tools to do a job, whereas the men behave like children sometimes, except when on a real armed incident when they are all extremely proffesional individuals.
I have watched armed British police practising on more then one occasion, I cannot say I was impressed at all, their firearm handling and safety were abysmal. Remember the young girl who was killed by an armed cop while search under her bed? The gun went off and killed her stone dead. The cop was carrying a Smith and Wesson model 10, the only way it could have gone off so easily was if the hammer was back and went off single action, double action takes quite a pull, single action doesn't. Why was his revolver cocked? Bad firearm handling, he should have had his arse nailed to the wall, instead he got away with it.

Then there was Menezes who was shot in the head SEVEN times on the London underground, witness's including police officers said Menezes wasn't shot accidentally, he was executed. During the inquest the jury were told by the coroner Sir Michael Wright they could only bring a verdict of lawful killing or an open verdict, they were forbidden to bring a "unlawful killing" verdict. The jury should have brought the verdict they believed was right because of the evidence produced and to hell with the coroner. Instead they brought an "open verdict". Because of the coroner the cop got away with it.

I have been following British police shootings for years and not one cop has been been brought to justice for wrongful or unlawful shooting, despite evidence to the contrary.
December 24th, 2011  
Trooper1854
 
 
There are numerous reported incidents of "mistakes" and "wrongful shootings". A lot of the outcomes in court can be said to be political.
As the British Police are not armed, except for the specialist Armed Response Units, the use of fire arms by then is scrutinised to the Nth degree.
There have, however been more succesful outcomes than bad ones, but these do not get reported by the press as its not good copy.
I have been present at a number of firearm incidents an I have to say I have been impressed with what I have seen.
These guys and girls know they are in a no win, Catch 22 situation, but they still do a great job. I have also tended to way too many Police officers injured in the line of duty because their superiors haven't had the guts to deploy a more severe response when they should have.
December 24th, 2011  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper1854
Have you seen the series "Suns of Guns"? Its about a Louisiana gun smiths, Red Jacket.
They did a commision for their local Sherrif's SWAT team.
They took reproduction Thompsons, which were single shot versions.
They converted them to auto fire, changed the barrels to heavier ones and these things were capable of emptying a 30 round mag in seconds!
They tried a one hundred round drum mag but it was too heavy (26lbs) and bulky for SWAT use.
When they demonstrated the conversion to the SWAT team, these guys were like kids in a toy shop!
That should be "semi auto" not single shot! Sure messed up the looks of it, though it may have made it more utilitarian.
December 24th, 2011  
muscogeemike
 
The British Army, more notably the B.E.F - British Expeditionary Force were apparently the first to utilize the Tommy gun in WWII combat. Later on issued with several 30 round box magazines as the drum magazines were too bulky for an infantryman to a carry.[/QUOTE]

Since the USMC was involved in several conflicts throughout the Caribbean in the 1920’s and 30’s I would think that the Tommy Gun had been used in combat prior to WWII.
December 24th, 2011  
muscogeemike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper1854
Have you seen the series "Suns of Guns"? Its about a Louisiana gun smiths, Red Jacket.
They did a commision for their local Sherrif's SWAT team.
They took reproduction Thompsons, which were single shot versions.
They converted them to auto fire, changed the barrels to heavier ones and these things were capable of emptying a 30 round mag in seconds!
They tried a one hundred round drum mag but it was too heavy (26lbs) and bulky for SWAT use.
When they demonstrated the conversion to the SWAT team, these guys were like kids in a toy shop!
I watch this program and enjoy what they do but some things don’t make sense.
This Tommy Gun conversion:, a twin water cooled, drum feed M-16; a “1000 yd AK - all were proported to have a police or military market. Yet all of these projects were “re-inventing the wheel” - better weapons with the capabilities of these projects are already available in numbers and probably for less money.
December 24th, 2011  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper1854
There are numerous reported incidents of "mistakes" and "wrongful shootings". A lot of the outcomes in court can be said to be political.
As the British Police are not armed, except for the specialist Armed Response Units, the use of fire arms by then is scrutinised to the Nth degree.
There have, however been more succesful outcomes than bad ones, but these do not get reported by the press as its not good copy.
I have been present at a number of firearm incidents an I have to say I have been impressed with what I have seen.
These guys and girls know they are in a no win, Catch 22 situation, but they still do a great job. I have also tended to way too many Police officers injured in the line of duty because their superiors haven't had the guts to deploy a more severe response when they should have.
The armed police I have seen are in my opinion very poor in their handling and safety of firearms, let alone shooting innocent people like Mark Duggan who was shot dead in a London taxi.

They don't only shoot people to death, but beat them to death, for example Ian Tomlinson, who was simply walking home from work, not being disruptive, and not attacking the police or anyone else in any way whatsoever, and simply strolling along with his hands in his pockets was viciously shoved to the ground by a Metropolitan Police officer, and died of a heart attack a few minutes later. in a statement after his death, police initially said that protesters had impeded medics from treating Tomlinson”. They lied. Although if you see Indymedia’s photo of a police medic you might consider that keeping him away from anyone (whether already injured or not) might be better for their health. Paul Canning also provides some other witness statements contradicting the police story.

There are also suggestions that other footage exists which more clearly shows the officer striking the unarmed, innocent man with a baton (and that said footage with be shown at 7pm on Channel 4 news).

These incidents are being investigated by the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission), who receive 35 million pounds every year from the British Government, but even where animals have been neglected and or mistreated by police, the IPCC always finds in favor of the police under investigation, so there is no confidence or credibility in anything they have given a verdict on to date.

You and I aren't going to agree on this one Trooper.
December 24th, 2011  
Trooper1854
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
You and I aren't going to agree on this one Trooper.
Thats the way of the world and I don't think any less of you for your views. You are more than entitled to them.
Have a great Christmas!
 


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